About abortion

[Oshulten]

Hi Christians, just wondering...

What do you think about abortion?

If you were in power, would you have it illegal or legal? What would the appropriate punishment be? Would any circumstances allow for abortion?

Just curious what you think about the subject, and how you would like society to treat it juridically.

 

[solarwave]

I would have it be legal except when it is done for terrible reasons (ie: Mother only wants an abortion to fit into her swimsuit for a holiday).

 

[Mr Dave]

Hi Christians, just wondering...

What do you think about abortion?

If you were in power, would you have it illegal or legal? What would the appropriate punishment be? Would any circumstances allow for abortion?

Just curious what you think about the subject, and how you would like society to treat it juridically.

I am against abortion, however I recognise that there are exceptional circumstances where it is the lesser of of two evils and therefore can be acceptable. Such circumstance being, if the mother's life was in danger if she were to go ahead with labour and if C-Sec would prove too risky, if she had been the victim of rape, in which case psychological damage may cause a significant risk (not being a psychologist I don't know what the possibilities are), and other such things like that.

If I were in political office (presumably Prime Minister and not just a member of Parliament) whether it was legal or not would depend on how all MP's voted, and I would not wish to impose my moral view on anyone without due democratic process.

If however, I did have the final say, I would keep abortion legal for the above situations and for others. I would leave it to doctors to make the decision on whether abortion was suitable, and leave it as an option only for cases where the doctors felt that the mother's life would be in danger, the mother may undergo unnecessary psychological damage by going though labour etc. with doctors facing disciplinary action/prison sentence for breaching the law. I would punish the doctors as they are the medically trained people who are there with sound mind to provide a service (I say sound mind as a mother/parent may be under all sorts of different emotions under the circumstances and if not being prosecuted, cannot feel pressurised by unpleasant husbands to abort against their wishes if it is not their decision but the doctor's.) Anyone who offered abortions for any reason than a specified reason or who offered abortion who wasn't a practicing qualified medic would also be liable to imprisonment.

I would not allow 'abortion on demand'

Hope I've explained myself.

 

[razeontherock]

how you would like society to treat it juridically.

Do I hafta let that joke pass?

Oh ok - but you're no fun.

There is NO judicial element to this debate! The front line is FUNDING. That and parental consent, or at least notification. For example, if a pregnant minor (child, legally) who could pay for her own abortion were to show up at the door, what does it say about our society if her parents don't even have to be notified?

We're afraid of causing her shame, within her own family? What about learning responsibility, and consequences for our actions?

Also my background is significant, I think:

at your age I was STAUNCHLY pro choice. I mean, what's the big deal anyway? Then I saw film footage (ultra sound I think) of the abortion process. Suddenly I recognized abortion is MURDER.

Funny that.

 

[Mixolydian]

Also my background is significant, I think:

at your age I was STAUNCHLY pro choice. I mean, what's the big deal anyway? Then I saw film footage (ultra sound I think) of the abortion process. Suddenly I recognized abortion is MURDER.

Funny that.

That was my experience too, switching over from almost militant pro-choice to pro-life after seeing an ultrasound video of an abortion, and that was while I was still an unbeliever.

 

[Oshulten]

at your age I was STAUNCHLY pro choice. I mean, what's the big deal anyway? Then I saw film footage (ultra sound I think) of the abortion process. Suddenly I recognized abortion is MURDER.

Funny that.

Murder should be illegal, no? If abortion is murder, then don't you think it's reasonable to throw the mother into jail for x number of years?

 

[solarwave]

We're afraid of causing her shame, within her own family? What about learning responsibility, and consequences for our actions?

And of course telling the parents is the only way to do this and we never protect people from shame in our society.

Also my background is significant, I think:

at your age I was STAUNCHLY pro choice. I mean, what's the big deal anyway? Then I saw film footage (ultra sound I think) of the abortion process. Suddenly I recognized abortion is MURDER.

Funny that.

Because film footage proves all things

 

[zaksmummy]

Murder should be illegal, no? If abortion is murder, then don't you think it's reasonable to throw the mother into jail for x number of years?

What about the father? Its takes two to tango.

 

[lone soldier]

I think it's horrible and wrong under 9 / 10 situations.

But the bible seems to indicate abortion is a good thing, since kids go to heaven and God wills the deaths of infants. So... it's... a good thing...? I guess (???)

 

[pgp_protector]

Murder should be illegal, no? If abortion is murder, then don't you think it's reasonable to throw the mother into jail for x number of years?

Well depending on the state / country some murderers are executed.

 

[Deleteriousnonsense]

I used to be pro-choice back in my atheist days. I used to have alot of unsafe sex. I got a couple of women pregnant and both ended up having abortions, one I knew about and one I didn't until about a year later. The first woman didn't want to have an abortion but i convinced that she wasn't ready to be a mother. I was so relieved when she finally agreed. The other one hid it from me but borrowed the money from me to have it done, saying she need it for a ski trip. A year later she told me she had the abortion because she didn't want a man like me to be the father of her child.

These are my children and they are dead by my hand.

 

[Oshulten]

I used to be pro-choice back in my atheist days. I used to have alot of unsafe sex. I got a couple of women pregnant and both ended up having abortions, one I knew about and one I didn't until about a year later. The first woman didn't want to have an abortion but i convinced that she wasn't ready to be a mother. I was so relieved when she finally agreed. The other one hid it from me but borrowed the money from me to have it done, saying she need it for a ski trip. A year later she told me she had the abortion because she didn't want a man like me to be the father of her child.

These are my children and they are dead by my hand.

With all due respect, I must say this sounds a lot like the typical anti-pro-choice/atheist anecdote.

"Well in my younger godless atheist days I used f*ck around a lot without protection. Not until I found God did I realize that abortion is horrible and wrong. Not because abortion causes suffering and emotional trauma to the mother, but because human life, or the barely sentient clump of cells that will become a human life, is sacred."

The level of irresponsibility you supposedly had earlier is beyond atheism/theism. It's simply unempathic to go around thinking that abortion is a run-of-the-mill procedure without emotional investment. Abortion is always a big deal in every case. It is a last resort in a dire situation, where the alternatives are worse. A find it difficult to believe you didn't realize that.

 

[Oshulten]

I think it's horrible and wrong under 9 / 10 situations.

But the bible seems to indicate abortion is a good thing, since kids go to heaven and God wills the deaths of infants. So... it's... a good thing...? I guess (???)

If children are naturally innocent in the eyes of God, wouldn't it be the greatest act of love to kill your children before they have the chance to sin and risk hell?

 

[Uncle Floyd]

Hi Christians, just wondering...

What do you think about abortion?

I agree with the Bible's teaching that babies are made in the image of God and that shedding innocent blood is murder and should be treated as such.

If you were in power, would you have it illegal or legal?

I'm a staunch libertarian, so I would not accept such a position of power, but I would do what I do now, which is to work through legal channels to get it recognized for what it is and through social channels to reach out to its victims.

What would the appropriate punishment be?

For the "doctor", death. For the mother, probably nothing, as women tend to be the victims of emotional manipulation in abortion cases.

Would any circumstances allow for abortion?

No.

Murder should be illegal, no? If abortion is murder, then don't you think it's reasonable to throw the mother into jail for x number of years?

Not necessarily. In the vast, vast majority of cases, women are just as much the victims as the children.

If children are naturally innocent in the eyes of God, wouldn't it be the greatest act of love to kill your children before they have the chance to sin and risk hell?

No. First of all, children are not naturally innocent in the eyes of God. Children are sinners, just like their parents. If you don't believe this, go to a playground sometime. The Bible never says that children don't go to Hell. It implies that some children don't, but that's only due to the mercy of God and not because of any sinlessness on their part.

Second, murder is never loving. Susan Smith drowned her children because she believed they were demon posessed. She loved her children so much that she had to kill them to drive the demons out so that they didn't go to Hell.

Did she love those children? In her mind, I have no doubt that she believes she loved them and murdered them out of love. But was it really love? No, of course not. It was evil masquerading as mental illness.

Third, it's not the parent's place to make that decision for the child.

 

[lone soldier]

If children are naturally innocent in the eyes of God, wouldn't it be the greatest act of love to kill your children before they have the chance to sin and risk hell?

I guess... but I believe life is a gift and a blessing to be enjoyed.

 

[ebia]

Abortion is never a good thing, but sometimes it is the lesser of two possible bad outcomes.

I'm not sure that making it illegal is necessarily an effective way of dealing with it unless it is preceeded by major work in dealing with the causes and motivations.

 

[Uncle Floyd]

Abortion is never a good thing, but sometimes it is the lesser of two possible bad outcomes.

Lynching black people is never a good thing, but sometimes it is the lesser of two possible bad outcomes.

Raping little girls is never a good thing, but sometimes it is the lesser of two possible bad outcomes.

Gassing three million Jews to death is never a good thing, but sometimes it is the lesser of two possible bad outcomes.

Beating a homeless man to death with a baseball bat is never a good thing, but sometimes it is the lesser of two possible outcomes.

Foolish, isn't it?

 

[ebia]

Lynching black people is never a good thing, but sometimes it is the lesser of two possible bad outcomes.

Raping little girls is never a good thing, but sometimes it is the lesser of two possible bad outcomes.

Gassing three million Jews to death is never a good thing, but sometimes it is the lesser of two possible bad outcomes.

Beating a homeless man to death with a baseball bat is never a good thing, but sometimes it is the lesser of two possible outcomes.

Foolish, isn't it?

Your attempted analogies are.

This is Exploring Christianity. If you want to argue with other Christian responses you need to take that to another forum.

 

[Uncle Floyd]

Your attempted analogies are.

1. "I know you are but what am I?"

2. "Same to you but twice as much of it!"

3. "I'm rubber and you're glue!"

I'm beginning to sense a pattern here.

 

[Sarcalogos Deus]

With all due respect, I must say this sounds a lot like the typical anti-pro-choice/atheist anecdote.

"Well in my younger godless atheist days I used f*ck around a lot without protection. Not until I found God did I realize that abortion is horrible and wrong. Not because abortion causes suffering and emotional trauma to the mother, but because human life, or the barely sentient clump of cells that will become a human life, is sacred."

The level of irresponsibility you supposedly had earlier is beyond atheism/theism. It's simply unempathic to go around thinking that abortion is a run-of-the-mill procedure without emotional investment. Abortion is always a big deal in every case. It is a last resort in a dire situation, where the alternatives are worse. A find it difficult to believe you didn't realize that.

Some of these anecdotes are true some aren't and I won't past judgement on whether his is true or not. As for an abortion always being a big deal to people that I will have to argue with. I was friends with a girl in high school that got an abortion and treated it like nothing more than a trip to the dentist, and it's not like she was in a dire situation either. Her parents were wealthy and would have supported her had she told them she was pregnant.