About 40,000 Christian Denominations?

SergiusPaulus

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I asked AI recently how many Christian denominations exist. It mentioned approximately 40k but hard to pinpoint an exact number.
Is an attempt to unify all Christian denominations into One worth undertaking if that attempt is well received and supported? It would require interdenominational conversation in attempts to find common ground. Does the Bible say we should be divided or does scripture indicate unity among all Christians? I’m just not sure Jesus intended his ministry to be disentegrated as it has been these past 2 millennia.
 

Friedrich Rubinstein

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The vast majority of those "40k denominations" are extremely similar to each other, if you were to compile a list of denominations that significantly differ in teachings and beliefs you would hardly get past a few hundred. That's because of the methodology used to get to that number of "30,000" or "40,000" denominations. It can be traced back to the Center for the Study of Global Christianity and the Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary. Here a quote from the latter, the Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary, about their methodology:

"Denominations are defined and measured at the country level, creating a large number of separate denominations within Christian families and Christian traditions. For example, the presence of the Catholic Church in the world’s 234 countries results in 234 Catholic “denominations”, though these can be further subdivided by rite (e.g., Byzantine or Latin). The typical way for Christians to count themselves is at the local congregational level and then aggregate these totals at the city, province, state, regional and finally, national levels."

This doesn't answer your question of unity, but I thought it's worth pointing out that those numbers are hugely inflated.
 
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SergiusPaulus

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The vast majority of those "40k denominations" are extremely similar to each other, if you were to compile a list of denominations that significantly differ in teachings and beliefs you would hardly get past a few hundred. That's because of the methodology used to get to that number of "30,000" or "40,000" denominations. It can be traced back to the Center for the Study of Global Christianity and the Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary. Here a quote from the latter, the Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary, about their methodology:



This doesn't answer your question of unity, but I thought it's worth pointing out that those numbers are hugely inflated.
I had asked AI about the number of Baptist Denominations there were. It indicated about 200 in Baptist alone.
Other Christian denominations have denominations within them, causing further division. How would we define unity among Christians?
 
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Friedrich Rubinstein

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I had asked AI about the number of Baptist Denominations there were. It indicated about 200 in Baptist alone.
Other Christian denominations have denominations within them, causing further division. How would we define unity among Christians?
In this methodology there are 234 Baptist denominations, because they count every country as a separate denomination even when it's the exact same organisation with the same beliefs. Divide 40,000 by the number of countries (234) and we're only talking about 171 Christian denominations in total.

I personally don't think that every Christian must hold the exact same beliefs into every smallest detail in order to be united with fellow Christians. There are certain things that every Christian should adhere to so that fellowship is possible - for example the deity of Christ, his death, burial and physical resurrection, and the salvation by Jesus' sacrifice rather than our own doing - but even I as a Protestant can have unity with Catholics and treat them as brothers and sisters in Christ. I am convinced that God grants everyone a different amount of knowledge, understanding and insight, depending on their maturity, spiritual hunger and in accordance with God's plan for the individual (some are spiritual babies, others are spiritual adults; some are fine with "average understanding" and others are meant to be great teachers, requiring a deeper knowledge). That means that it is impossible to ever get only "1 denomination", as that would require everyone to have the same knowledge and understanding of what the Bible teaches us about God and Jesus.

We should call out actual heresy (which is rather evident when all Protestant, all Catholic and all Orthodox denominations don't consider you Christian, as it is the case with JW for example), but other than that I think we should agree to disagree on a lot of minor details and be able to have fellowship with Christians who might view certain things a bit differently than we do.
 
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com7fy8

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Jesus has prayed that we are unified > John 17:22-26 < and what makes us unified. And Jesus' prayer has not failed.

But there can be people who would make it seem that the prayer of Jesus has failed.

And our Apostle Paul has written >

"Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment." (1 Corinthians 1:10)

God commands this; so God knows this is realistic to expect us to do. And we who obey Jesus are doing this. And this was written to Corinthians who could be so disobedient and immature; yet, God knew they could become His way so they were unified.

So, in my opinion, if ones are going around claiming the Body of Jesus is divided and disobedient . . . we do what we can to help them, by example and word.

So, what is "the same thing" to speak? Speak the same as what God speaks. And we grow to discover this. If we are holding on to things we were capable of believing while newborn Christians and immature, possibly we are making idols of whoever was teaching us while we could believe pretty much anything!

And the "same mind" I would say, is the mind of Christ, which is revealed in Philippians 2. This is not just thinking ideas. The "same thing", then, can have more to do with how to become in our character and love like Jesus . . . versus what many are dividing about. We need to stop putting so much attention into dealing with that outward showing of divisions and outward reforming for outward showing of unity; but instead give our attention to how to become and to love like Jesus, since in my opinion, our Father's main focus is that we become "conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren." (in Romans 8:29)

"For we dare not class ourselves or compare ourselves with those who commend themselves. But they, measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise." (2 Corinthians 10:12)

So, instead of comparing ourselves and competing with other groups and people and their ideas, how do we compare with Jesus?
 
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ViaCrucis

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I had asked AI about the number of Baptist Denominations there were. It indicated about 200 in Baptist alone.
Other Christian denominations have denominations within them, causing further division. How would we define unity among Christians?

The AI is likely drawing from sources which use "denomination" in ways which are, at best, confusing.

There aren't 40,000 or 30,000, or 20,000 (etc) denominations.

To reach those kinds of numbers every single regional expression of every church or ecclesiastical structure that identifies itself in some form or fashion as "Christian" is counted as a "denomination". So that includes groups that none of us here would consider Christian at all. It also divides churches with an international fellowship as being many different denominations. That means, for example, that the same church in either America or Canada, though it's the same church, the same fellowship, the same in every way except for geography is classified as distinct denominations.

As an example: the Catholic Church is, well, the Catholic Church. Whether you're a Catholic in the US or a Catholic in South Korea or a Catholic in Poland you're still Catholic, and your church is the Catholic Church with the Pope in Rome as the guy at the top. However, there are what are called "particular churches" in Catholicism, so in Europe you'll visit a Catholic Church with a Latin Rite Catholic Mass; but go to Greece and you'll find Catholics celebrating the Mass using the Byzantine Rite. Well Latin Rite Catholics and Byzantine Rite Catholics are both Catholics, they are members of the same church--but according to the 30,000+ denomination figure, these are considered entirely different "denominations". So even though the Catholic Church is a single communion, these statistics would say there are literally hundreds of "Catholic denominations"--which simply isn't the case.

That is also how Baptists in the US and Baptists in another country, even if they are both Baptists and a Baptist missionary from one country can go to the other and be welcomed by the Baptists there they're being classified as different denominations; even though from a purely practical standpoint these are people sharing a common belief and whose churches recognize each other as equally valid, with the same beliefs, practices, and ways of doing things.

In the United States there are several Lutheran denominations. Two examples of Lutheran denominations in the US are the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod (LCMS) and the American Association of Lutheran Churches (tAALC); each has their own president and thus are structurally distinct; however the LCMS and the AALC are in full communion, having what is called "full altar and pulpit fellowship"--that means that an LCMS pastor can preach from an AALC pulpit and administer the Lord's Supper from an AALC table; and vice versa. Two different denominations, yes, yet in complete fellowship and agreement on matters of faith.

So when talking about denominationalism and divisions within Christianity it's important to recognize that talking about thousands of denominations is neither technically correct, nor is it boots-on-the-ground true. Instead, there are varying degrees of fellowship, unity, agreement, and division. And to understand both where there are agreements and where there are disagreements, and where there is unity and where there is division, means we have to take a closer look the situation. Not every division is equal, not every disagreement is the same kind of thing. There are nuances that tangle it all together into something a lot more complex and complicated.

Things that an AI regurgitating numbers simply is not equipped to address.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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SergiusPaulus

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As we proceed through time can we expect more denominations to form or should we attempt to become One church? I realize one church is not conceivable by men but is that what Jesus would have wanted?
How many more denominations must we go through to get back to One?
Would it be wrong to pursue one Christian church?
 
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ViaCrucis

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As we proceed through time can we expect more denominations to form or should we attempt to become One church? I realize one church is not conceivable by men but is that what Jesus would have wanted?
How many more denominations must we go through to get back to One?
Would it be wrong to pursue one Christian church?

From the perspective of many, there is already that one Church. But there isn't a singular agreement on what that one Church is.

Roman Catholics believe theirs is that one Church.
The Orthodox believe theirs is that one Church.
Both can point to their history, which does indeed stretch all the way back to the Apostles and the first generation of Christians.

I'm a Lutheran, I believe I am a member of the one Church of Jesus Christ; not because I'm "Lutheran" but because as a baptized member of the Body of Christ who partakes of Christ's Holy Supper, hearing and believing the word of God, and participating in the faith and practice of the historic, catholic, and apostolic Christian Church I am a member of Christ's one and only Mystical Body. I reject the idea that the Church depends on a visible succession of bishops for its identity as the Church, and instead believe the Church depends on the teaching, the faith, the word of God, and His precious Sacraments. So wherever the Word is preached, wherever the Sacraments administered, wherever the Faithful assemble confessing, believing, and sharing together in the one Christian faith there the one holy Church is. That means not just Lutherans are members of that one Church, but all Christ's Faithful; even when there is error mixed together with truth in the particular expressions of Christianity in other ecclesiastical structures. Roman Catholics are Christians, same with the Orthodox, same with Presbyterians, Methodists, Baptists, et al--though theirs is a form of Christianity that I cannot participate in because it is truth mixed with error through erroneous interpretations of Scripture and erroneous theological ideas.

So when talking about the oneness of the Church, what is meant by that depends on what we believe. For a Roman Catholic that means everyone coming to the fullness of the truth in the Catholic Church. As a Lutheran I believe there is already a unity and oneness established in the Mystical Body of Christ found and expressed in God's Word and Sacraments; but a practical unity would require abandoning false teachings and adopting the true and faithful Christian confession (i.e. becoming "Lutheran").

If there was a common agreement that we could all sign off on, then there wouldn't be any of our divisions in the first place. It's because we disagree on fundamental matters of doctrine and practice that we practice Christianity the way we do.

I believe that the Eucharist is the literal flesh and blood of Jesus Christ, when I come up to the altar to receive Communion I am literally ingesting God the Son. That's not, in my mind, something I can simply consider a "small disagreement" when someone tells me "No, that's not Jesus"; and it would be very difficult to have pure and full fellowship with someone who accused me of practicing cannibalism.

So how could we all come and share of the same Table if one person says "This is Jesus" and another persons says "You're a cannibal" and another says "This is just a symbolic ritual"? Obviously for that kind of fellowship we would have to agree--have a common confession--about what this Table is.

So that means, as much as I would love all my brothers and sisters, all the baptized Faithful, and myself to come and be at the same Table, approaching the same altar, without any division whatsoever--well that isn't practically possible because we aren't even agreeing on what that Table means. I earnestly desire unity in the Body of Christ, but ultimately that unity cannot come at the expense of truth and true confession.

That means, at the end of the day, I would rather acknowledge my Baptist or Presbyterian brother or sister as a brother and sister, though also acknowledging that we cannot come to the same Table because we have extremely different views. It would be dishonest to ignore those differences; even as it would be uncharitable and unChristian to deny their sincere and real faith in the one, true, and living Savior. That means that we are all Christians, but we are not in communion as we should be; but true communion can only happen in true confession and concord, a common agreement.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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eleos1954

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I asked AI recently how many Christian denominations exist. It mentioned approximately 40k but hard to pinpoint an exact number.
Is an attempt to unify all Christian denominations into One worth undertaking if that attempt is well received and supported? It would require interdenominational conversation in attempts to find common ground. Does the Bible say we should be divided or does scripture indicate unity among all Christians? I’m just not sure Jesus intended his ministry to be disentegrated as it has been these past 2 millennia.
We don't get truly united until Jesus returns and we are united with Him.

As a Christian we are to pattern our lives after Jesus ... we do and will mess up here and there.

Judgement unto salvation is totally up to Jesus .... ours is to get the gospel out in hopes others will come to Jesus.
 
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SergiusPaulus

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In place of unification of denominations perhaps interdenominational fellowship can work to foster unity in spite of our differences. In the next 5 years should we expect Christianity to be further splintered or will there be a unification movement?
How can Christianity reach the next generation if they are not raised in a Christian home? Can interdenominational efforts be made to reach them or will it continue to be the choice of this doctrine or that one?
 
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2PhiloVoid

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I asked AI recently how many Christian denominations exist. It mentioned approximately 40k but hard to pinpoint an exact number.
Is an attempt to unify all Christian denominations into One worth undertaking if that attempt is well received and supported? It would require interdenominational conversation in attempts to find common ground. Does the Bible say we should be divided or does scripture indicate unity among all Christians? I’m just not sure Jesus intended his ministry to be disentegrated as it has been these past 2 millennia.

Most of the historical "denomination problem" boils down to a human communication problem. If many of us could begin to better acquaint ourselves with the overlay of Neuro-science, Communication Theory, Hermeneutics, and Historical Research, we'd see that complete agreement and consensus is precluded on a wide array of topics that we all have to deal with in life, and not just when attempting to engage religion or even Christianity.

That's just a part of Reality, and like anything else, we have to work to understand the dynamics and structure of what is taking place, even where differences of understanding exist with regard to the Bible.
 
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Pioneer3mm

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interdenominational fellowship
'The Modern Ecumenical Movement'
- Interesting subject to study/search..
---
It is not based on institutional or denominational unity..
- but on a unity of spirit and faith.
---
The Modern Ecumenical Movement began with the Edinburgh Missionary Conference..
- in 1910.
* Catholic & Orthodox were not included/did not participate.
---
Wikipedia has an article on..
- 'Ecumenism'.
 
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dzheremi

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As someone who is forced to work with AI every single day as part of my job, I'd caution everyone to not believe a single thing that AI says that you cannot independently verify from a traditional (non-AI) and reputable source. The amount of times I've had to edit some insane nonsense that AI came up with in response to whatever it was tasked with looking at is essentially infinite, because it happens every darn day to everyone at my company (which has over 5,000 employees, so it adds up to a lot of instances). There are not 40,000 different Christian denominations. Whatever people (or robots) come up with to answer this question always says more about them and their methodology than about the true number, which is not really knowable thanks to the differing definitions of who or what constitutes a "denomination".

On that note, I really wish people here and everywhere would learn the crucial difference between a communion and a denomination. Churches that are composed of communions across the world such as the Anglican communion (42 churches), the Eastern Orthodox Church (~15 churches, or "jurisdictions", as they seem to like to call them), the Oriental Orthodox Church (6 churches), or the Roman Catholic communion (23 "sui juris" churches) cannot be accurately referred to as "denominations", even if doing so yields however many more numbers for a list made by a robot that cannot think, no matter how hard we train it to replace us.
 
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dzheremi

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'The Modern Ecumenical Movement'
- Interesting subject to study/search..
---
It is not based on institutional or denominational unity..
- but on a unity of spirit and faith.

To the bit I've italicized: Which is found where, exactly? I don't mean to pick on your specifically just because you happen to be the one to state this in this particular thread (I've seen it elsewhere on CF, and in real life, too), but I always find it very odd, as I have not seen more dissention and disagreement (admittedly as an outsider looking in) than among ecumenists. This makes sense to me, in a way, as they're working at an impossible task because of the untenable nature of the goal itself (to unite all Christians, despite our radical differences in theology and practice), so of course it's going to lead to a bunch of in-fighting as each group seeks to establish what is something able to be compromised on with some other group and what isn't.

I'm admittedly not a fan of the modern way of ecumenism precisely due to its "race to the bottom" approach to rapprochement, but I'd be more willing to take it seriously if it actually worked the way those who believe in it say it does. I've never seen that, though, so I'm curious what others may be seeing that I'm not.
 
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I asked AI recently how many Christian denominations exist. It mentioned approximately 40k but hard to pinpoint an exact number.
Is an attempt to unify all Christian denominations into One worth undertaking if that attempt is well received and supported? It would require interdenominational conversation in attempts to find common ground. Does the Bible say we should be divided or does scripture indicate unity among all Christians? I’m just not sure Jesus intended his ministry to be disentegrated as it has been these past 2 millennia.

The purpose of Protestant is to absorb those left Catholic church. If we have only one denomination, that is from RCC, then Christianity will lose half of its believers in today's world, which is around 10 billion human souls. The characteristic of Protestantism is that it has multiple denominations for the reason that biblical knowledge is broad and human brains are unique that in our age they can hardly come to a single conclusion. The bottom line is, the message of salvation is unique and common to all denominations, which is to believe Jesus Christ to be saved. If a "denomination" deviates from this core message of salvation, it's considered to be a heresy instead of a denomination.

In short, denominations are a deviation on the understanding of the different biblical knowledge but with a common understanding of the core message of "believing in Jesus to be saved". The common faith has been well-defined in the Apostles' Creed. A legitimate denomination can be identified by the Apostles' Creed. To put it another way, a denomination can still save human souls as long as it sticks to the faith statements mentioned in the Apostles' Creed. Or else it could be a heresy.

In effect and in our age, denominations maximized the number of humans saved as today's humans tend more to deviate in terms of "knowledge". The many denominations available allow them to choose one to suit themselves to stay in Christianity.

Daniel 12:4
But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge.

The characteristic of "time of the end" is that "many will go here and there to increase knowledge."

This is even prophesied!
 
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Pioneer3mm

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they're working at an impossible task because of the untenable nature of the goal itself
I remember the fellow..at the conference..many years ago.
- in 1980's.
---
He said..
"I have been working..for the denominational cooperation/unity..for years.
- I got tired/weary.."
 
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SergiusPaulus

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I am an Army veteran. I was in Europe from 1989-1991. I was able to witness the reunification of Germany. Unity can be contagious once people get a taste of it. All of us alive today were born into a society of many denominations. For whatever reasons we were individually drawn to a particular denomination. Some of us have experienced multiple denominations in our life. Underlying our pursuit of fellowship with likeminded believers is the pursuit of truth. It would seem we congregate with those that define truth the same as ourselves. Do nonbelievers seek a unified belief or are they challenged with knowing which doctrine agrees with them, thus “trying” different denominations?
 
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dzheremi

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Do nonbelievers seek a unified belief or are they challenged with knowing which doctrine agrees with them, thus “trying” different denominations?

This is indeed a crucial distinction to make, so thank you for making it. I just wanted to add that we do not only see this among nonbelievers, unfortunately. There are more than enough threads here on CF wherein people essentially say "here is what I already believe; where should I go, based on my preexisting beliefs?" There is very rarely any consideration given to the idea that they/we might need to actually renounce or at least reconsider some of our preexisting beliefs in order to join the Church, as though it is just a big coincidence that the 'perfect' church happens to conform itself to what such seekers claim to be looking for, rather than the more traditional approach of attempting to make sure that such people (including ourselves, of course) are being "transformed by the renewal of their minds" within the bosom of the Church. (Read: In actual practice, no matter if we are seekers or not and no matter what our background is, this "transformation" is a necessary part of joining and staying in the Church, not a one-time decision that "Yes, this particular church has everything I need to be able to join a church without having to be challenged to change and grow in ways that I am potentially not comfortable with/willing to consider.")
 
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