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NxNW

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In my example, you can get as close as you want.
 
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coffee4u

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It sounds like we're in agreement.

Since I am pro-life I don't think so. I was just pointing out the fallacy of your argument, that by saying "Nobody else has the right to attach itself to another person without permission." You just made the case for it to be a person.
 
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NxNW

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Beyond that, there's no logical connection between brain function and birth. If sufficient brain function is what makes someone human, then the key there is brain function, not birth.

In that case, we draw the line somewhere in the second trimester. My point was that we clearly have a human being after birth, and so laws already apply regarding life and death once birth has happened.
 
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NxNW

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Since I am pro-life I don't think so. I was just pointing out the fallacy of your argument, that by saying "Nobody else has the right to attach itself to another person without permission." You just made the case for it to be a person.

I was refuting your poor argument that "the unborn should have the same rights as anyone else", by pointing out that you're actually trying to grant a unique right to the unborn that the born don't have. I still maintain that the first trimester unborn are not human beings.
 
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coffee4u

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If they are not human beings then who are they?

The first trimester is 12 weeks, the body is fully formed by then.
 
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stevevw

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Yet the caterpillar and acorn are still life, just a stage of life. That is exactly what those in the know, the scientists (pediatricians) who are experts in this area say.

The predominance of human biological research confirms that human life begins at conception—fertilization. At fertilization, the human being emerges as a whole, genetically distinct, individuated zygotic living human organism, a member of the species Homo sapiens, needing only the proper environment in order to grow and develop. The difference between the individual in its adult stage and in its zygotic stage is one of form, not nature. This statement focuses on the scientific evidence of when an individual human life begins.
When Human Life Begins
 
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Strong in Him

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What makes it OK to kill a person on life support? When they aren't a person.

If your daughter was on life support and the doctors wanted to withdraw it because there was no hope of recovery - not the same as killing, btw, since she would already be brain dead - I'm sure you wouldn't say, "go ahead; she's not a person any longer".
 
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pleinmont

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I would have no hesitation in having the life support switched off, once you are brain dead your humanity is gone, imo.
 
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Steve97

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Mr. Shapiro is also highly educated, does his homework to back up his argument with facts and is fearless in his defense of the unborn.
 
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Dave Ellis

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Can you demonstrate that to be a fact, because all I'm seeing is an assertion without any evidence backing it.


Then why did he create evil people?


Morality has an objective basis, however our moral decisions are necessarily subjective. However, that's irrelevant. If god exists and he created the universe knowing exactly how it would turn out, then all of the evildoers are acting out part of gods plan. He can't justifiably kill people that are doing what he knew they'd do when he created them that way.


See above


Why do we need a saviour exactly? One would assume an all powerful god is capable of forgiving people without sending his kid off to be murdered....

The whole story makes no sense.
 
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Dave Ellis

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Funny how atheists always try to derail every thread into a 'does God exist' debate. As if they're suddenly going to find some new approach to that that hasn't been seen in thousands of years of this argument.

Well, when you base all of your arguments on what god has to say, you should be able to actually show this god exists, otherwise we have no reason to take your argument seriously.
 
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Dave Ellis

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The fact you accept or believe something doesn't mean it's true. If you're going to make laws to govern the land, you had better ground those laws in objective and demonstrable facts.

Just because you believe in spirits, souls and angels is not a compelling reason to think those are real things. If another religious group tried passing laws based on their theology, you'd be making the same arguments I am against their efforts.

Come back with some evidence, laws should not be based on theology alone.
 
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