Abortion

[RobinRobyn]

The constitution? freedom of speech???

It doesn't give you the right to tell me, or any woman, what to do.

It's called an opinion.

An uninformed one, worth less than nothing.

and so if a male doctor proscribed you with a illness that only affects women you would not listen because its a man and a woman's problem?

Doctors at least know what they're talking about. They diagnose based on specific information about the patient and her health. What specific information about pregnant women do you base your opinions on?

You fight for what YOU think is right correct?

Sure, but if someone doesn't ask my opinion about a personal matter, I don't give them one anyway.

if not why are you even debating with me?

I'm not debating. You're telling me what I must do, telling women everywhere what they have to do, and I'm not listening to your orders.

It's made from humans, turns into a human but isn't a human.... that's scary logic you have

I didn't say it isn't a human, I said it isn't a person. Get your facts straight.

Just because i don't believe your POV doesn't mean i can nor should condemn it. If you make an approach on another life i will however reject them.

Who cares? You seem to think you have the right to tell me what decisons I can make with my own body. I have some news for you, you don't.

A figure of speech is a use of a word that diverges from its normal meaning, or a phrase with a specialized meaning not based on the literal meaning of the words in it such as a metaphor, simile, or personification.

I know, don't insult me. The reason a metaphorical get out of jail card isn't needed is because there is no metaphorical jail. The only one condemning a pregnant woman for getting an abortion is you. And no one needs a metaphorical get out of jail card because you condemned their choices.

No but I'm at least willing to hear them out when somebody rejects my thoughts.

So if you answer a wrong number and the person on the other end says that you should lose weight, are you going to head right over to Weight Watchers and sign up? Do you make all of your decisions based on what some random person who doesn't know you, or anything about you, says?

IF they don't listen to reason than they are lost.

So you're the only voice of reason in the world? No one who disagrees with you could possibly be using reason that disagrees with your opinions?

If your trying to convert somebody to a religion and they straight out reject you then they are at their lost and there's little more you can do.

So shake the dust off your sandals and move on, right? Or will you do what anti-abortion people do, create laws to force people to convert?

However you should heed your own advice and let that body of cells which you reject as a human live its life and "mind your own damn business"

It's an embryo, it has no business. It's in my body, so that makes it my business.

This is a forum....

And did I ask you whether or not I should have an abortion? Did any pregnant woman ask you?

If it doesn't put another s life in danger i don't care.

What if I'm ovulating but decide not to have sex? I'll have my period in a couple weeks which means an egg died, so no life was created. Will you step in and force me to have sex because it puts the life that egg could have created in danger? How is what you've been saying any different?

Please state your basis on why i should have one.

Because it's my opinion that you should. It's immoral to not get one.

or better PM me so we can stay on topic.

It's on topic. You're telling me what I should do with my body, I'm just doing the same for you.

Well you seem give off the appearance you know exactly what all pregnant women think and debating this idea.

I never said I know what all pregnant women think. I say all pregnant women know their own situations better than you do, so they should be allowed to make their own decisions about their own bodies, not have you make them instead.

This forum was opened before i got here, and i have in the past made forums for certain medical issues for advice so yes.

Then that's the difference between us. When I want medical advice, I see a doctor who will examine me and give me specific adviced based on my exact medical condition.

So all doctors have to be pregnant to understand childcare?

No. Doctors offer medical advice based on their medical knowledge and an examination of your body. You're offering advice on pregnancy based on nothing. No experience, no information about the woman specifically, no knowledge whatsoever.

and you think you should take away the 1st amendment because of my lack of experience?

The first amendment protects the government from outlawing you offering any ignorant or uninformed opinion you want to. It doesn't mean I, or anywoman, has to listen to it or respect you for expecting us to obey it.

Again i point to the constitution which is the law of land that all humans should have and I'm empowered by its law to stand for what i believe. what puts you in a position on what i can and cannot say?

You can say whatever you like. But that doesn't mean you have the right to expect me, or any woman, to listen to you or obey your orders.

Again as to the legality, Do you support gun-ownership?

Yes.

its legal to carry an AR, and you can have a sidearm near everywhere you go (in your house purse or vehicle) If you reject to the carrying of anything like this your are not in full support of the law

Read the Second Amendment sometime. The right to bear arms isn't absolute.

and by the 1st amendment your allowed that, doesn't mean its right or wrong.

The law is a guide for what society - or at least the government - allows, not what is moral or immoral. People decide right and wrong for themselves. You decide for yourself, I decide for myself, women everywhere decide for themselves.

 

[Duckybill]

So do you recommend that we mercilessly slaughter the unborn? Or do they have rights like you demand?

 

[LyraJean]

What does misdiagnosed prescription pills have to do with abortion?

 

[RobinRobyn]

So do you recommend that we mercilessly slaughter the unborn? Or do they have rights like you demand?

Women have rights over their own bodies, even when they're pregnant.

 

[A2SG]

None of which proves anything. You're giving opinions and that is not proof.

I'm offering facts. You're not.

If you want to refute those facts, feel free. But since you can't, all you've got left is to stick your fingers in your ears go "la la la la la" and pretend they don't exist.

-- A2SG, they still do exist, though....

 

[A2SG]

So do you recommend that we mercilessly slaughter the unborn? Or do they have rights like you demand?

"WE" don't slaughter anyone. Abortion is an individual decision, made by one woman as regards her own pregnancy.

That's it.

Abortion isn't a group decision, nor is it one society makes. One woman, one pregnancy.

Period.

-- A2SG, you may feel free to disagree with her decision, but she is also free to ignore you and not care a pair of fetid dingos kidneys what you think....

 

[Duckybill]

Women have rights over their own bodies, even when they're pregnant.

Yeah, I keep hearing that from irresponsible women who are out of control.

 

[Duckybill]

I'm offering facts. You're not.

If you want to refute those facts, feel free. But since you can't, all you've got left is to stick your fingers in your ears go "la la la la la" and pretend they don't exist.

-- A2SG, they still do exist, though....

What you call 'facts' are only opinions. Choosing to slaughter the unborn for convenience VERY is sick.

 

[A2SG]

Yeah, I keep hearing that from irresponsible women who are out of control.

Why do you assume they're being irresponsible or are out of control? Do you know the circumstances surrounding every single abortion? Do you know if the sex was consentual? Do you know if the almost foolproof method of birth control failed? Do you know if the woman is able to care for a child? Do you know if there are valid medical reasons that require an abortion or the life of the mother would be at risk?

Do you know anything at all about the circumstances, or are you simply offering your opinion as if it were fact?

In other words:

"None of which proves anything. You're giving opinions and that is not proof."

-- A2SG, now where have I heard that before?

 

[A2SG]

What you call 'facts' are only opinions.

Wrong. What I call facts are facts. They are provable and verifiable. Hell, feel free to check them out for yourself!

Choosing to slaughter the unborn for convenience VERY is sick.

Who said it was for convenience? I don't recall any poster offering the specific reason why she had an abortion.

-- A2SG, you can't just assume to know these things ya know....

 

[Duckybill]

Why do you assume they're being irresponsible or are out of control? Do you know the circumstances surrounding every single abortion? Do you know if the sex was consentual? Do you know if the almost foolproof method of birth control failed? Do you know if the woman is able to care for a child? Do you know if there are valid medical reasons that require an abortion or the life of the mother would be at risk?

Do you know anything at all about the circumstances, or are you simply offering your opinion as if it were fact?

In other words:

"None of which proves anything. You're giving opinions and that is not proof."

-- A2SG, now where have I heard that before?

None of which gives anyone the right to kill the unborn. Let em live! Let em choose.

 

[A2SG]

None of which gives anyone the right to kill the unborn.

True. Women have the right to an abortion regardless of the circumstances.

Let em live! Let em choose.

How do you propose to let them choose, exactly? Do you have some heretofor unknown method of communicating with an embryo?

Further, did they choose to be born in the first place? Why should we give them the right to choose when they're an embryo, but not when they're an ova or a sperm cell?

-- A2SG, if we're going for absurd arguments anyway, why not go all the way, right?

 

[Duckybill]

True. Women have the right to an abortion regardless of the circumstances.

What a horrid contradiction!

How do you propose to let them choose, exactly? Do you have some heretofor unknown method of communicating with an embryo?

Let em live!

urther, did they choose to be born in the first place? Why should we give them the right to choose when they're an embryo, but not when they're an ova or a sperm cell?

Let em live. Let em choose.

 

[A2SG]

What a horrid contradiction!

How is it a contradiction? The fact is, abortion is legal. Until the third trimester, there is no legal restriction based on circumstances.

Let em live!
Let em live. Let em choose.

Ah, parroting yourself. Good to see you acknowledge you have no real argument here.

-- A2SG, norman, coordinate!

 

[Duckybill]

How is it a contradiction? The fact is, abortion is legal. Until the third trimester, there is no legal restriction based on circumstances.

Legal doesn't make it right. Adultery is legal.

Ah, parroting yourself. Good to see you acknowledge you have no real argument here.

And I will continue, let em live, let em choose.

 

[A2SG]

Legal doesn't make it right.

I never said it did. Individuals decide right and wrong for themselves, laws don't.

Adultery is legal.

So? Is anyone here telling people they should commit adultery? For that matter, is anyone telling anyone that she should have an abortion?

And I will continue, let em live, let em choose.

Polly wanna cracker?

-- A2SG, ah, the Norwegian Blue, lovely plumage.....

 

[Duckybill]

I never said it did. Individuals decide right and wrong for themselves, laws don't.

So? Is anyone here telling people they should commit adultery? For that matter, is anyone telling anyone that she should have an abortion?

Polly wanna cracker?

-- A2SG, ah, the Norwegian Blue, lovely plumage.....

And I would say the same for you. Let him/her live.

 

[A2SG]

And I would say the same for you. Let him/her live.

Me? Why me? I couldn't have an abortion if I wanted one.

-- A2SG, you did notice the blue smiley with the arrow pointing up and to the right under name, didn't you?

 

[Jay217]

Did I say abortion was right? No. I've merely said that it should be an option. As I've said, we know that the foetus does not care. If it were to be given the option of objecting, it would not, because it is incapable of objecting or agreeing or anything that involves concious thought.

So you think that there should also be the option to lives in Coma because they aren't conscious therefore can't make a decision?

Can people just give up with the potential argument? If I am in court, and someone asks me a question which I do not answer at all, does that mean that if they then assume an answer or try to force me to give one, they are robbing me of time?

The future is irrelevant.

You can speculate and you can try to force it but if you don't say it how can their persecution be justified?

It's usually all about setting up to live for the future nowadays.

They are as human as the rest of me; they contain exactly the same human DNA. The foetus is part of the mother like fingernails are. It cannot survive on it's own - when it can, then you can consider it an individual organism. And again, the potential argument is useless. The foetus is not guaranteed to be born if we leave it alone.

So any child under 6 is not considered a human? Last time i checked for there to be any chance to live on your own you need basic skills.

I'd still take the 70%+ chance than a 0% to live.

Dead bodies are human - do they get the full set of human rights? If something is made from human cells, it is human, after all.

Most people in society honor dead bodies who are now absent of All forms of life. We bury them and respect them for who they were. I don't see much celebration or special regards to the fetus when it gets terminated.

Or were you thinking of people? That's a different thing entirely. Foetuses are not people.

were you not at one point a fetus? are you a person now? as a Fetus did u have the potential to be anything besides human or dead?

I have a question - do you support free medical care for life?

I do support government healthcare if thats what your asking

Life is life, though. Why is human life so special?

Umm... Cannibalism isn't really that healthy for a society....

Or shall i simply say We were made in the image of god so F the world?

Not the point. Nestle and various oil companies have supported harsh regimes that have a tendency to kill those locals that get too vocal. By purchasing gasoline or chocolate (or diamonds or gold or coffee from certain companies) you are helping end life. Our choices cause death every day.

So what do you propose we do keep abortion legal so we simply prevent more life to be taken in the future?
Because yes our choices cause death but why shouldn't we stop global killing, and the best way to deal with a global situation is to stop the issue (in this case killing) in your own country 1st.

But shouldn't human life be about more than survival? We have reached a point where we have enough (here in the West, at least) that mere survival is not enough. Why force people into situations like that?

So you think by keeping abortions legal you are saving people from enduring this harsh life on earth?

Does it matter? You can stay outside and watch it burn, but if you were to go in, would the people working there or the cryotanks full of fetuses be your priority?

The workers can make more babies now and the cryotanks will take alot more work to care for. So if i had the choice between one or another id take the people. Like i said i support abortion only in terms of maternal health. Yes i may have killed a infant but the mother can have more babies (hopefully) a dead mother and a dead infant are no help to anyone.

 

[Jay217]

It doesn't give you the right to tell me, or any woman, what to do.

Actrually it's quite the opposite....

Freedom of speech is the freedom to speak without censorshiphttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship or limitation or both. The synonymous term freedom of expression is sometimes used to indicate not only freedom of verbal speech but any act of seeking, receiving and imparting information or ideas, regardless of the medium used.

I have the right to speak what i want without limitation or you to try to censor me.

An uninformed one, worth less than nothing.

What makes you more informed than myself, besides saying i and fetuses both don't have human rights you haven't really proven that abortion should stay legal.

Doctors at least know what they're talking about. They diagnose based on specific information about the patient and her health. What specific information about pregnant women do you base your opinions on?

She had sex. Birth Control was not used. She now wants to destroy life that due to her actions she created.

What's your opinion?

Sure, but if someone doesn't ask my opinion about a personal matter, I don't give them one anyway.

That's your choice.

I'm not debating. You're telling me what I must do, telling women everywhere what they have to do, and I'm not listening to your orders.

You are replying to a public forum so I'd hope your in the mood to debate or else you are in the wrong spot. Also technically by replying your giving my opinion more power. If you don't like it go against it with a good reasonable argument or ignore it. It's your choice on how you react and live your life. I just don't want you or any other women wreck the lives of others in the process.

I didn't say it isn't a human, I said it isn't a person. Get your facts straight.

Again i love the dictionary.
per·son (pûr

s

n)n.1. A living human. Often used in combination: chairperson; spokesperson; salesperson.
2. An individual of specified character: a person of importance.
3. The composite of characteristics that make up an individual personality; the self.
4. The living body of a human: searched the prisoner's person.

Pick your choice 2 of the 4 use the word human... or shall we define human

hu·man (hy

m

n)n.1. A member of the genus Homo and especially of the species H. sapiens.
2. A person: the extraordinary humans who explored Antarctica.

So let's see a person is a human and a human is a person yet i don't know my facts.... good thing your straightening everything out

Who cares? You seem to think you have the right to tell me what decisons I can make with my own body. I have some news for you, you don't.

Actrually i do have the right as my 1st reply. you have the right to accept,refute or ignore.

I know, don't insult me. The reason a metaphorical get out of jail card isn't needed is because there is no metaphorical jail. The only one condemning a pregnant woman for getting an abortion is you. And no one needs a metaphorical get out of jail card because you condemned their choices.

I'm not gonna even touch this... your trying to argue that there is no metaphor....

So if you answer a wrong number and the person on the other end says that you should lose weight, are you going to head right over to Weight Watchers and sign up? Do you make all of your decisions based on what some random person who doesn't know you, or anything about you, says?

I may talk to him and well i don't think i need weight watchers so i'd probably thank him for his time and simply don't go. I got the freedom of mobility,

So you're the only voice of reason in the world? No one who disagrees with you could possibly be using reason that disagrees with your opinions?

No i'm not but if you try to reject the idea that i have human rights like yourself than apparently i should think i am.

So shake the dust off your sandals and move on, right? Or will you do what anti-abortion people do, create laws to force people to convert?

I can lobby for the government as that is another right i have and the government can listen to my motives and my ideas and then they can accept or reject it. It's called democracy.

It's an embryo, it has no business. It's in my body, so that makes it my business.

Your the one who acknowledged the risk and put the embryo there. So yes it is your business but would you be more willing to kill a kid who you adopted? its not you its not yours but its your business.

And did I ask you whether or not I should have an abortion? Did any pregnant woman ask you?

I have many friends who went to a high-school boasting one of the highest pregnancy rate in the province.... And you are talking to me about the idea of having an abortion....

What if I'm ovulating but decide not to have sex? I'll have my period in a couple weeks which means an egg died, so no life was created. Will you step in and force me to have sex because it puts the life that egg could have created in danger? How is what you've been saying any different?

An egg doesn't form a human on its own, an embryo does.

Because it's my opinion that you should. It's immoral to not get one.

How is it immoral? you need to back it up for it to hold ground.

It's on topic. You're telling me what I should do with my body, I'm just doing the same for you.

This forum title is Labeled - Abortion - Therefore you speak about abortion. a vasectomy can be a way so you'd never have an abortion, however if you want to debate the ethnicity of having one I'd suggest making a new thread on the subject or again PM the idea.

I never said I know what all pregnant women think. I say all pregnant women know their own situations better than you do, so they should be allowed to make their own decisions about their own bodies, not have you make them instead.

I'm simply a voice of opinion they have the same rights I've been tell you this entire time...

Then that's the difference between us. When I want medical advice, I see a doctor who will examine me and give me specific adviced based on my exact medical condition.

So if he told you not to have an abortion due to the fact you irreversibly end a life and you damage your own body you'd heed his advice?

No. Doctors offer medical advice based on their medical knowledge and an examination of your body. You're offering advice on pregnancy based on nothing. No experience, no information about the woman specifically, no knowledge whatsoever.

And you are judging me on what a username and a picture? So how do you know i have no experiences no information about women and no knowledge?

The first amendment protects the government from outlawing you offering any ignorant or uninformed opinion you want to. It doesn't mean I, or anywoman, has to listen to it or respect you for expecting us to obey it.

Oh so the rights of the individual people from he charter of rights protect the government? oh of course makes perfect sense .

And if your focusing on the freedom of religion it's the government can't make laws limiting religion. So even if i was the head of government i couldn't Ban the practice of Islam or any other faith.

You can say whatever you like. But that doesn't mean you have the right to expect me, or any woman, to listen to you or obey your orders.

I do have the right to tell you but you are actually correct you have the rights to choose. Now wouldn't be nice if those infants could choose what to do with their lives and not have to obey your orders?

Yes.
Read the Second Amendment sometime. The right to bear arms isn't absolute.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

infringe [ɪnˈfrɪndʒ]vb1. (tr) to violate or break (a law, an agreement, etc.)
2. (intr; foll by on or upon) to encroach or trespass

when it says infringed it means you can't violate break or trespass the right to bear arms.... Kind of sounds absolute to me....

The law is a guide for what society - or at least the government - allows, not what is moral or immoral. People decide right and wrong for themselves. You decide for yourself, I decide for myself, women everywhere decide for themselves.

Pretty close to right. you do get to decide what you do i get to decide what i say and do and i think for the love of god those Humans/persons/embryos should get these same given rights of the constitution shouldn't you?