Abortion

[Havoc]

Of course it's a human.

You can't compare a human life with egg yolk and crystals...

You believe it's a Human. It has not been established so by fact.

 

[panterapat]

Kaylynn


Amen!

 

[panterapat]

When does life begin?

* In 1981 (April 23-24) a Senate Judiciary Subcommittee held hearings on the very question before us here: When does human life begin? Appearing to speak on behalf of the scientific community was a group of internationally-known geneticists and biologists who had the same story to tell, namely, that human life begins at conception - and they told their story with a profound absence of opposing testimony.

Dr. Micheline M. Mathews-Roth, Harvard medical School, gave confirming testimony, supported by references from over 20 embryology and other medical textbooks that human life began at conception.

* "Father of Modern Genetics" Dr. Jerome Lejeune told the lawmakers: "To accept the fact that after fertilization has taken place a new human has come into being is no longer a matter of taste or opinion ... it is plain experimental evidence."

* Dr. Hymie Gordon, Chairman, Department of Genetics at the Mayo Clinic, added: "By all the criteria of modern molecular biology, life is present from the moment of conception."

* Dr. McCarthy de Mere, medical doctor and law professor, University of Tennessee, testified: "The exact moment of the beginning of personhood and of the human body is at the moment of conception."

* Dr. Alfred Bongiovanni, University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine, concluded, "I am no more prepared to say that these early stages represent an incomplete human being than I would be to say that the child prior to the dramatic effects of puberty ... is not a human being."

* Dr. Richard V. Jaynes: "To say that the beginning of human life cannot be determined scientifically is utterly ridiculous."

* Dr. Landrum Shettles, sometimes called the "Father of In Vitro Fertilization" notes, "Conception confers life and makes that life one of a kind." And on the Supreme Court ruling _Roe v. Wade_, "To deny a truth [about when life begins] should not be made a basis for legalizing abortion."

* Professor Eugene Diamond: "...either the justices were fed a backwoods biology or they were pretending ignorance about a scientific certainty."

 

[burrow_owl]

doctors, shmoctors....they deal with biological structures - there's nothing they can say about the difference between mere organic life and actual human life, which would be the province of neuroscientists.

 

[Ampmonster]

i still cant believe the legths people go to justify something that usually happens from careless promescuity.

 

[Havoc]

When does life begin?

* In 1981 (April 23-24) a Senate Judiciary Subcommittee held hearings on the very question before us here: When does human life begin? Appearing to speak on behalf of the scientific community was a group of internationally-known geneticists and biologists who had the same story to tell, namely, that human life begins at conception - and they told their story with a profound absence of opposing testimony.

Dr. Micheline M. Mathews-Roth, Harvard medical School, gave confirming testimony, supported by references from over 20 embryology and other medical textbooks that human life began at conception.

How exactly did these people "appear on behalf of the scientific community"? Did the scientific community take a vote and send them as delegates? No.

In fact you've chosen to only quote these eight people and completely failed to quote the dozens of dissenting opinions of the other doctors and scientists who disagreed with them. You've tried to make it seem tht these people were speaking for the scientific community at large when they were only speaking for themselves or their own particular lobby group.

Isn't twisting facts and intentionally leaving out information considered false witnes by your God?

 

[Ampmonster]

prolly not as bad as baby murder

 

[Dyrwen]

Fine appeal to emotion there Amp. Way to make no point.

 

[Ampmonster]

ive made plenty of points this thread.

 

[Dyrwen]

That you have, just no reason to bring about such an appeal, it really makes your other points less valid.

I.E. Proving something true. Debating it's truth. Then saying "You just don't wanna believe me, you suck."

That was the equivelant I saw.

 

[panterapat]

I would think that a geneticist would be a good source of information on when life begins.

 

[Havoc]

He might be if he was speaking science. If he was relating his own personal beliefs then he'd be no better a source than anyone else.

The fact is that science doesn't know at what point a fetus becomes a human. "Humanness" is not a measureable quality, at least not yet.

Combine this with the fact that those men were not representative of the majority opinion of the scientific community. The majority opinion is that there is not enough information.

 

[panterapat]

How do you know that they do ot hold the majority opinion?

 

[Apologist]

The fact is that science doesn't know at what point a fetus becomes a human.

On a similar note, if I plant a seed of corn in the ground at what point does it become corn? Is it not corn from the very beginning?
Would you tell someone you do not know what is planted in the ground until it matures and then you will know what it is?

 

[draper]

I am against abortion, but I don't believe I have the right to decide for someone else.

Oooooooh boom.

You people should be more like her.

Well, at least, the part about not being able to decide for someone else, though i disagree with her pro life stance

 

[Havoc]

Oooooooh boom.

You people should be more like her.

Well, at least, the part about not being able to decide for someone else, though i disagree with her pro life stance

Thanx Draper. Actually it's "he"

And you are perfectly entitled to disagree with me. This is not a black and white issue.

 

[Havoc]

On a similar note, if I plant a seed of corn in the ground at what point does it become corn? Is it not corn from the very beginning?
Would you tell someone you do not know what is planted in the ground until it matures and then you will know what it is?

Is the corn seed a corn plant? most farmers would probably say no, it might become a corm plant if it is allowed to grow. The distinction is confusing you because we call both the kernal and the plant "corn". If you use the more precise descriptions of "corn plant" and "corn seed" you will be less confused.

 

[Arthur Dietrich]

I'm pro-choice. What do I choose? life.

I have no right to decide for other people. Like most, I think abortions should only be used for medical emergencies (rare as they are)

 

[Arthur Dietrich]

I always get in hot water for this but this is how I see it.

Abortion is ALWAYS murder. I do not care what the circumstances are. God is in control and if He wants the mother to die, she will. If He wants the baby to die, it will. We have no right to decide.

So, you've never been to a doctor? You never taken medicine? If you became fatally ill you wouldn't seek treatment?

I can never understand the "God wanted the baby to die" line. Honestly, I don't. What's the purpose?

Abortion needs to be taken back to the dark alleys and damp corridors where all other murder takes place. We do not provide a sterile, fluffy, muzak filled room for those like John Wayne Gacey to commit his atrocities so why should we for this?

So much for Christian Love

You've never been in a situation or known someone who needed or THOUGHT they needed an abortion. It is a SERIOUS thing. It is a SERIOUS decision. You are taking it far too lightly.

 

[DaQo'tah]

I see it the other way around...

When I went to 1st grade in school,,,way back in time,,,LOL....

I was in a class of about 20 - 30 kids,,,and all of us were growing up in a home where the dad was married to the mom...we didnt know of any other world,,,Dads and moms are married, case-closed..

then later in that 1st year of school, I met a new kid who didnt have a dad due to a death,,,I had never even heard of the idea of "not haveing a dad"....I didnt know even what such an idea was talking about..

But....Time Changes,,,and last month ,My brother picked his kid up from the daycare where my sister-in-law works...as My brother waited at the door for something, he got to watch and listen to the kids playing in the backyard...

One of the kids noticed my brother standing in the doorway, and yelled over to my brother's son, Hey your mom's boyfriend is here to pick you up!"

My brothers son looked at the kid who said that and answered back, "Thats not my mom's boyfriend, thats my Dad, They are married!"

The other kid looked over at my brother,,,,infact all the other boys stopped playing to look at my brother,,,it's like, they had never seen a Husband/Father before in their lives,,,they didnt understand how a dad could be married to a mom....

My brother asked his wife about what he had just heard the boys talking about , and was told that, except for their child, none of the other children were growing up in homes where the dad was married to the mom...