Abortion

[KennySe]

If the body dwelling inside of her is dependent on her life to survive, then it is technically, dependent and requires her opinion on it's survival to be determined.

"The body dwelling inside of her" IS dependent on her life. There is no argument about that.

"The body dwelling inside her" is not her body. WHO's body is it?

Until it's out of her body, it's under her responsiblity. She may do what she wishes.

And when "it's out of her body", it is NOT under her responsibility?

She may do what she wishes with "the body dwelling insider her" which is not her body? WHOSE body is she doing something with?

 

[tcampen]

tangents! all off them.
cmon answer the real question, or are you too comfortable throwing babies in garbage cans.

The later term abortions you refer to here are exceedingly rare. Most occur when the emryo weighs 1/4 of a gram, is about 10 or so millimeters long, and with a shape indestinguishable from virtually any other mammal at that stage. Creating the visual of "throwing babies in garbage cans" is an appeal to emotions, a red herring, you name it, but it is NOT an intellectual argument of any kind.

Talk about tangents!

 

[Ampmonster]

tangents:
No sex = the end of the human species in one generation.

No sex = eliminating a basic function of virtually every living organism.

No sex = an incomplete relationship between a married couple.

No sex = a lot of things that have nothing to do with abortion.

 

[tcampen]

As many has half of all fertilized eggs are "naturally aborted." While most are simply part of the reality of nature, a good portion can be related to the direct actions of the mother, such as consuming alcohol, certain physical activities, advanced age or an unhealthy lifestyle. Knowing these activities result in a significant loss of human life unnecessarily, why aren't the pro-lifers trying to restrict the behavior of all sexually active women? Funny how everyone draws the line somewhere.

 

[Ampmonster]

ok so they go in a TUBE for research instead a garbage can, oops.
Im appealing to reality of destoying life and spirit.
not emotions,
like "i work with orphans, and its a revolving door, boo hoo." id rather be in a revolving door than a garbage can!

 

[Ampmonster]

"such as consuming alcohol, certain physical activities, advanced age or an unhealthy lifestyle. Knowing these activities result in a significant loss of human life unnecessarily, why aren't the pro-lifers trying to restrict the behavior of all sexually active women? Funny how everyone draws the line somewhere."

the funny thing is you endless stream of "what abouts?"

 

[tcampen]

"such as consuming alcohol, certain physical activities, advanced age or an unhealthy lifestyle. Knowing these activities result in a significant loss of human life unnecessarily, why aren't the pro-lifers trying to restrict the behavior of all sexually active women? Funny how everyone draws the line somewhere."

the funny thing is you endless stream of "what abouts?"

Pitting one's position against even the most extreme examples is how we test the position itself. How does it hold up? Are there exceptions? if so, why?

It's part of the intellectual process. Sorry about that.

 

[Ampmonster]

"Pitting one's position against even the most extreme examples is how we test the position itself."

no thats how lawyers can find a way to sue for anything.

 

[Ampmonster]

wait, read all my post you missed a good one.
Amp:"
ok so they go in a TUBE for research instead a garbage can, oops.
Im appealing to reality of destoying life and spirit.
not emotions,
like "i work with orphans, and its a revolving door, boo hoo." id rather be in a revolving door than a garbage can!

 

[Dyrwen]

"The body dwelling inside of her" IS dependent on her life. There is no argument about that.

"The body dwelling inside her" is not her body. WHO's body is it?



And when "it's out of her body", it is NOT under her responsibility?

She may do what she wishes with "the body dwelling insider her" which is not her body? WHOSE body is she doing something with?

[salute to Captain Semantics]

It is a body of mass. The physical structure of the fetal organism. Who's body is it? At this time, it is the mother's body. It's still maintained, produced, and controled through various means by her. It's just an organism, a "body" inside of her to which she has produced and holds responsibility for or not. When it's outside of her, it is up to her as to whether or not she wishes it her responsibility.

I've known quite a few stories of women, afraid to have an abortion, then dumping their child in a dumpster. Seems a bit wasteful of all the effort of "having" the kid born. Rather than stopping it before it grows up to fully develop.

She's doing something to her body, the organism dwelling in her is of a physical mass and in a development process. As it still dwells soley inside of her and under her responsibility, she may do what she wishes with it, as it has no will of it's own since it has yet to become fully developed or capable of survival without her.

 

[Ampmonster]

alive, not alive.
no ones answered my soul question yet.
when does the baby get his soul?

 

[Dyrwen]

The Holy Ghost makes a delivery to the zygote in it's development?

Just a wild guess.

 

[Ampmonster]

see i don't know myself.
a lot of the debate is "when is it actually a life yada yada"
something tells me once the 2 cells go together, everything from that point leads to a human being. (as long as it isn't messed with). being that that usually happens a day or two after sex, god designed it as a direct result. (for sucsessful fertilizations anyway.)
im just looking at it spiritually.
whether scientific OR spiritual, sex was designed for making babies. why it happens to feel so good is a discussion for those who acknowledge sin.

 

[stubbornkelly]

the prochoicers seem to argue "when is it a life" and "well the bible says" and all that,
but they never address the cause of most abortions, which is careless promescuity.

Interesting. You're right that promiscuity isn't often addressed, largely because of the more prevalent belief among pro-choicers that the decision to have sex, with whomever a person wishes, is also a choice for an individual to make. I believe that. There's a actually a lot of work to stop kids from having intercourse as part of the work to stop the spread of STDs and unwanted pregnancies.

That said, the "careless" part is most certainly addressed by all pro-choice groups I know. NARAL promotes safer sex (they believe abortion should be safe, legal and rare, emphasis on the rare), as does Planned Parenthood. In college, I saw lots of safer sex workshops advertised, and all of them were either directed sponsored by PP or by a campus group in connection with PP. Will an abortion be denied to a woman who hasn't used any contraception? No. But, in my experience, it's standard to strongly recommend and provide contraceptive options to post-abortive women.

 

[Ampmonster]

"In college, I saw lots of safer sex workshops advertised, and all of them were either directed sponsored by PP or by a campus group in connection with PP. Will an abortion be denied to a woman who hasn't used any contraception? No. But, in my experience, it's standard to strongly recommend and provide contraceptive options to post-abortive women."

really? the college does all that. god forbid they allow bible study or someone with a celabacy angle in the building, though. leeme get you an example of a college angle

 

[Ampmonster]

here we go... this makes me sick


http://www.massnews.com/2003_Editions/11_November/110503_mn_columbia_college_bank_celebrates_partial_birth_abortion.shtml

 

[BigToe]

so obviously thats how all who vote pro-choice feel?

 

[stubbornkelly]

really? the college does all that. god forbid they allow bible study or someone with a celabacy angle in the building, though. leeme get you an example of a college angle

Nice assumption, but it's false. This thread was about abortion and there was a comment about pro-choicers activities, so those were what I spoke to.

I went to a Quaker college, and religious study was a fairly popular activity. The campus organizations always emphasized that abstinence as a valid and safe choice. For that matter, so did Planned Parenthood.

 

[Apologist]

I've said enough and I agree that people are going to believe what they want to believe, although I do tend to believe that many people do not really think this subject through logically.

God Bless

 

[Dyrwen]

Who am I trying to kid? Probably the various elders who forget how young I am, or those who never realize how young I am.

Go figure.. heh