Abortion

[Apologist]

Who am I trying to kid? Probably the various elders who forget how young I am, or those who never realize how young I am.

Go figure.. heh

Haha. I changed my post as you were answering.
You are quite an intelligent young man and I applaud that, although I strongly disagree with your worldview and logic.

 

[Dyrwen]

Ah, just spotted that.

Thanks, I'm fine with disagreement. Long as I don't look foolish while it happens, works for me. Not too shabby yourself, for a 41 year old.. heehe

 

[Ampmonster]

did you real about columbia?! i thought you were supposed to teach music in band class not politics, especially abortion.
HUGE liberal slant in mainstream colleges. be happy you went to a Quaker school.

 

[Ampmonster]

Dyrwen,
theres a whole lotta world for you to see though. don't solidify your sides to early.

 

[Dyrwen]

So I'm told. Although apparently, I've managed to see more than most at a young age. So, in time I'm only moving up.

Seeing the world is only something that takes time. Understanding the world and reasoning that which is in it, takes much less time in my mind, and appears much easier to inform others as how it works.

Wisdom is achieved much more proficiently than knowledge, which is why I accidently appear more old sometimes. *overanalyzes one comment, moves on*

Hehe..

 

[BigToe]

but you might as well know what you believe in the mean time

 

[Havoc]

Though on our debating note however, no I'm not passing beliefs on as facts. Read a few books on child birth,

I have a degree in Biology. My Wife is a Doula (midwife/birth assistant). I've attended 9 births in my capacity as a Minister (yes, in the room), including the birth of my Son. I'd say I know more than what you'd get in a "few books on childbirth".

you'll see that a baby in the womb is all alive, human, and even once a brain, and spine are developed, can feel pain.

Now if something is alive, human, and can feel pain, then what on earth posseses you to think you're not commiting a murder?

I noticed twice there you inserted the word "human" into your list of attributes. While it is certainly true that the Fetus is alive, etc. The question of whether it is Human during the early stages of development has not been quantifiably answered. For you to slip it in as if it were a fact only shows to what extent you are willing to push your beliefs of what the nature of a Fetus is.

Facts are on our side.

When you actually have some please let us know.

 

[Apologist]

Thanks, I'm fine with disagreement. Long as I don't look foolish while it happens, works for me.

I'm with you on that my friend.
It is nice to have debates and not see posts that deride others or get emotional instead of staying with the topic. After reading some of the posts on these forums I can understand why Dr. William Lane Craig will not debate anyone who does not have a PhD.
He believes that those who have obtained the level of academics required to receive a PhD tend to debate more from logic and reason than from emotion.
I would agree.

 

[Dyrwen]

but you might as well know what you believe in the mean time

But of course, of without one's own set of ideas, how are you to ever truly learn and change in time without a starting point? ...hehe. Where has this thread topic gone...

 

[Ampmonster]

some people are way too "logical" for there own good.

is conviction "logical"?
or bravery?
love?
the list goes on....

 

[Dyrwen]

Yes. If you analyze anything fully enough, anything is logical.

I'm a master at over analyzing that which I exist in. Seems to rationalize my world too fully at times.

 

[tcampen]

"Pitting one's position against even the most extreme examples is how we test the position itself."

no thats how lawyers can find a way to sue for anything.

Guilty as charged. I am an attorney.

But testing assertions and positions against every conceivable scenario is how we determine the truth about that position. I realize some people don't like it, but the truth can be difficult sometimes. I guess I just don't think we should avoid the truth because it makes us uncomfortable. Call me crazy, but that's just me.

 

[tcampen]

whether scientific OR spiritual, sex was designed for making babies. why it happens to feel so good is a discussion for those who acknowledge sin.

Now we're reducing enjoying sex with our spouse to being a sin? Ouch!

 

[BigToe]

something tells me God designed the body to respond in a pleasurable way when it comes to sex. Or do we just imagine it feels good because of sinful nature?

 

[tcampen]

something tells me God designed the body to respond in a pleasurable way when it comes to sex. Or do we just imagine it feels good because of sinful nature?

No, I'm with you on it was meant to feel good. Foot rubs also feel good as does a hot bath. Are those sinful too? No, I think those that think it is a sin to actually enjoy sexual intimacy have some seriously unhealthy attitudes towards sex. That is not a personal attack, but a diagnosis.

 

[BigToe]

oh i know, i was agreeing with you. unfortunately some people think we are sinning if we enjoy anything. me? i'm a christian hedonist.

 

[Ampmonster]

"Now we're reducing enjoying sex with our spouse to being a sin? Ouch!"
...no. *sigh*
you HAVE to have known what i meant.
"Guilty as charged. I am an attorney."
oh...i'm so sorry...

 

[Ampmonster]

hey coke feels great.

 

[stubbornkelly]

I went to a state school before I went to the private one (which, by the way, was not conservative - not in the least), and although it was a much larger school (20K versus 1500 students) which means I only heard about a percentage of events, the Campus Crusade for Christ and other big Christian student groups were very active, and safer sex programs included abstinence there, too.

No, I haven't read anything about Columbia lately, but will do so. Anything you recommend?

 

[BigToe]

amp- you're really good at taking things to the extreme. so obviously because i gain pleasure from eating i shouldnt eat. or sleep or going to church all feel good so i shouldnt do that either.