Abortion

[jayswife29]

I agree with lambslove, I think abortion is an act of desperation, wether it be from the environment they are in, or maybe a bad relationship, whatever the reason is though, it doesnt justify taking an innocent life. The baby's heart beat can be detected at 14 days, the baby has brain waves, if the baby wasn't a person, the baby wouldn't gro in-utero. If the baby wasn't alive, he wouldn't need to be nourished, if the baby didn't have a soul, he wouldn't be born. I am a pregnancy and post-abortive crisis counselor, if anyone needs to pm me I will try to give you answers.

 

[tcampen]

Suppose a woman were brutally raped by her own father, and became pregnant as a result. Would any of you who oppose abortion force the woman to have the child? Why or why not?

Suppose a pregnant woman were in a situation where only she OR her unborn child could survive, but not both. Thus, either the woman abort the pregnancy, or die at childbirth, but the child would survive. Which has the greater right to life, the woman or the unborn child? Why?

If abortion should be illegal because the unborn child has such rights, shouldn't it also be illegal for the pregnant woman to smoke, drink alcohol excessively, ingest certain drugs or foods, knowingly spend too much time in buildings with asbestos, be excessively overweight, or engage in any other behavior that is harmful to the unborn child?

If you advocate making abortion illegal, what is your plan for unwanted children that are born as a result? (I'm looking for something more tangible than just expecting the parents to step upto the plate and do the right thing, since the reality of the world shows that won't happen.)

Is invitro fertilization, where several eggs are fertilized and placed in the woman, but known that few, if any, will survive, just as immoral as abortion? Is it morally wrong for some of these fertilized eggs to not be implanted due to a small likelihood of viability? What if this is the only way a married couple can concieve due to biological factors?

I'm really not trying to stir up the hornet's nest here. Personally, I'd prefer there was never another abortion ever, and that there is an increasing interest in protecting the fetus as it approaches birth. But I also have difficulty equating the fertilized egg amounting to 32 cells as being exactly the same as you or I with all the same rights. These are tough issues that deserve some attention, that's all I'm saying.

 

[HOTTEST DIGGEDY DOG EVER]

1% of abortions occur becuz of rape

 

[Knight]

Suppose a woman were brutally raped by her own father, and became pregnant as a result. Would any of you who oppose abortion force the woman to have the child? Why or why not?

The issue is the rights of the child. The child had no part in the circumstances of his/her conception.

Suppose a pregnant woman were in a situation where only she OR her unborn child could survive, but not both. Thus, either the woman abort the pregnancy, or die at childbirth, but the child would survive. Which has the greater right to life, the woman or the unborn child? Why?

I don't know ho to answer this. If I say the woman you will use that to prove that there are circumstances where abortion is permissable. If I say the child you will accuse me of voilating the rights of the mother.

Regardless, your hypotheticals represent a significant minority in abortions currently performed.

If abortion should be illegal because the unborn child has such rights, shouldn't it also be illegal for the pregnant woman to smoke, drink alcohol excessively, ingest certain drugs or foods, knowingly spend too much time in buildings with asbestos, be excessively overweight, or engage in any other behavior that is harmful to the unborn child?

If it were up to me I would not allow prospective mothers to engage in any activity which endangers the unborn child. There are plenty of laws which protect a "born" child.

If you advocate making abortion illegal, what is your plan for unwanted children that are born as a result?

The same thing we did before abortion was available. Deal with it.

Is invitro fertilization, where several eggs are fertilized and placed in the woman, but known that few, if any, will survive, just as immoral as abortion? Is it morally wrong for some of these fertilized eggs to not be implanted due to a small likelihood of viability? What if this is the only way a married couple can concieve due to biological factors?

Yes it is because you're creating a life with the intent to destroy the ones you don't want.

I'm really not trying to stir up the hornet's nest here. Personally, I'd prefer there was never another abortion ever, and that there is an increasing interest in protecting the fetus as it approaches birth. But I also have difficulty equating the fertilized egg amounted to 32 cells as being exactly the same as you or I with all the sames rights. These are tough issues that deserve some attention.

Like it or not you will stir up the nest. (As will my answers I assume.)

 

[Truncate]

i personally think abortion is wrong! if you were to have sexual relations with someone with out using a condom or a form of protection then you should take the responsabilty for that child born or not. It is part of you..and I feel you kill it...you kill part of yourself.

Notice that you said "should" take the responsibility...no one should be able to force the woman to keep the embryo/foetus. They do not have to "take responsibility," and even if they did, it is not your right to tell us what is the "responsible thing to do in this situation."

 

[Truncate]

AAAHHH!!!! I dont believe what I am hearing! Fellow Christians talking as if a baby is merely a pawn in some governmental war! Shame be cast upon all of you(except jillars and skaven)!

Tell us, please, what gives a embryo and/or foetus inherent human rights and dignity?

 

[Truncate]

Abortion is wrong any way you look at it.

Why?

Abortions happen ALL THE TIME, "naturally," miscarriages or "spontaneous abortions" are what they are called.

 

[ZiSunka]

Good analogy. Mind if I steal it sometime?

Feel free!

 

[Truncate]

If you don't understand that then you shouldn't be having sex.

What gives you (or anyone) the right to say that to other people? To limit their freedom?

 

[Knight]

Why?

Abortions happen ALL THE TIME, "naturally," miscarriages or "spontaneous abortions" are what they are called.

I don't believe you're actually comparing a miscarriage with an abortion.

A miscarriage is an unfortunate tragedy.

An abortion involves the intent to end the life of a child.

 

[ZiSunka]

Mentally retarded people do not develop into full independent human beings, fetuses (in most cases) do. Parasites, cancer etc. also do not develop into human beings, I believe there is a distinction there that should not be brushed off as trivial.

You don't know many mentally retarded people, do you?

Most mentally retarded people grow up to have homes, jobs, children, marriages and even VOTER REGISTRATION CARDS. They are fully-functioning adult human beings. Your statement shows your ignorance about the value of disabled people.

 

[Truncate]

I think that pro-lifers are out to say it's wrong and make it illegal and abolish it.

They have no right to make those laws. They have never proven abortion of an embryo or foetus to be anything like murder.

several (most everyone) people think that murder is wrong and immoral, and the same people have made laws against it.

But then we could make "murder" of flies illegal, of bacteria, viruses, etc. We need more sense than that.

 

[Knight]

What gives you (or anyone) the right to say that to other people? To limit their freedom?

I'm not limiting their freedom. Pregnancy is an effect of sex. I'm sorry if this offends you but it is the truth. If you don't want to get pregnant then maybe you shouldn't be having sex.

 

[Truncate]

1% of abortions occur becuz of rape

Source?

 

[Truncate]

I don't believe you're actually comparing a miscarriage with an abortion.

A miscarriage is an unfortunate tragedy.

An abortion involves the intent to end the life of a child.

So you think that suicide and fatal accidents are OK?

If you say abortion is so terrible, why do you not care about the vast majority of abortions (spontaneous ones)?

 

[Truncate]

I'm not limiting their freedom. Pregnancy is an effect of sex. I'm sorry if this offends you but it is the truth. If you don't want to get pregnant then maybe you shouldn't be having sex.

It is greatly limiting their freedom if you force them to keep the embryo/foetus to full term and give birth.

What gives anyone the right to force someone to carry to term?

 

[ZiSunka]

Suppose a woman were brutally raped by her own father, and became pregnant as a result. Would any of you who oppose abortion force the woman to have the child? Why or why not?

Statistically, incest is a factor in 1 out of 1 million abortions.

Suppose a pregnant woman were in a situation where only she OR her unborn child could survive, but not both. Thus, either the woman abort the pregnancy, or die at childbirth, but the child would survive. Which has the greater right to life, the woman or the unborn child? Why?

Happens in 1 out of 100,000 abortions.

If abortion should be illegal because the unborn child has such rights, shouldn't it also be illegal for the pregnant woman to smoke, drink alcohol excessively, ingest certain drugs or foods, knowingly spend too much time in buildings with asbestos, be excessively overweight, or engage in any other behavior that is harmful to the unborn child?

If those behaviors were engage in for the specific purpose of ending the child's life, then yes.

If you advocate making abortion illegal, what is your plan for unwanted children that are born as a result? (I'm looking for something more tangible than just expecting the parents to step upto the plate and do the right thing, since the reality of the world shows that won't happen.)

ADOPTION. And yes, it is unrealistic for the birth parents to step and do the right thing. Doing the wrong thing is how they got the child in the first place.

Is invitro fertilization, where several eggs are fertilized and placed in the woman, but known that few, if any, will survive, just as immoral as abortion? Is it morally wrong for some of these fertilized eggs to not be implanted due to a small likelihood of viability? What if this is the only way a married couple can concieve due to biological factors?

Yes. There is no constitutional right to have a baby. There is the constitutional right to life. It is morally wrong for a doctor to kill embryos in the womb in hopes of making conditions better for one or two others.

I'm really not trying to stir up the hornet's nest here. Personally, I'd prefer there was never another abortion ever, and that there is an increasing interest in protecting the fetus as it approaches birth. But I also have difficulty equating the fertilized egg amounting to 32 cells as being exactly the same as you or I with all the same rights. These are tough issues that deserve some attention, that's all I'm saying.

But you were that same 32 cells once. What is the difference between you and that 32 cells? If it's number of cells, how many does it take to make a person human?

 

[Knight]

So you think that suicide and fatal accidents are OK?

When did I say this? Making up conjecture does not prove your point.

If you say abortion is so terrible, why do you not care about the vast majority of abortions (spontaneous ones)?

I do care. However, you're going to have a hard time making a comparison between a miscarriage and someone actively seeking the death of the unborn child.

I'll have to continue this discussion tomorrow.

 

[ZiSunka]

What gives you (or anyone) the right to say that to other people? To limit their freedom?

So you support driving drunk then? It's equally reckless behavior, and everyone should be free to do anything they want, even if it is reckless and is a danger to other people!

 

[Truncate]

When did I say this? Making up conjecture does not prove your point.

You said that an "unfortunate accident" is not even comparable to "murder." Many "unfortunate accidents" happen all the time: fatal accidents, spontaneous abortions, etc. shouldn't they be comparable to murder, to you?

I do care. However, you're going to have a hard time making a comparison between a miscarriage and someone actively seeking the death of the unborn child.

"Unborn child" is entirely your definition. Science and medical facts show us that there are stages of pregnancy, as with all other animals.