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Abortion

fluffy_rainbow

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I'm not trying to step on toes here, as this is almost a completely separate issue altogether, but I am opposed to invitro fertilization. In my opinion, couples cannot conceive naturally for a reason. When we start fiddling around with our bodies trying to implant something from an outside source looking to get a desired end result, we're playing God. Why can't couples who can't conceive adopt a child who desperately needs a home instead of messing around with hormones and unnatural methods of trying to get pregnant?
 
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twenty1blakjack

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I absolutely feel abortion must be legal for one. If it is made illegal, it will still go on, only under much less safe circumstances.

But I believe its a nessecary thing for a few reasons.
1) Child of incest
2) Rape
3) Teenage pregnancy

I think it should be strongly discouraged for cases where "I don't think I can raise a child". In those cases, ADOPTION!
 
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Licy

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tcampen said:
I am one of those non-extreme, focus on the rational types. I would prefer there were never another abortion wanted or performed, but also recognize that making abortions illegal will not make them go away, or arguably reduce them either. That makes me one of those pro-life & pro-choice types, I suppose. But that's not my point...

My brother and his wife were unable to conceive a child the usual way. This left in vitro fertilization as the only viable method of having a child. This process takes the several of the mother's eggs and father's sperm, and fertilizes the egg outside the mother's body. The best three or four fertilized eggs are then selected and implanted into the mother, with the hopes one of them will attach and the mother will become pregnant. Some of those fertilized eggs will necessarily die in the process. The unused fertilized eggs will be frozen for possible later use, or discarded altogether. No matter what, the in vitro process will necessarily result in the destruction of some fertilized eggs, either by the lab or the mother's body.

This, being the funtional equivilent of an abortion, should be just as objected to by those who hold human life begins at conception, with all the full moral and legal rights to life as anyone one else. I rarely see this among anti-abortionists.

For those of you who absolutely believe human rights begin at conception, then you must also believe my brother should not have is son right now. I cannot agree with that position, especially knowing my nephew.

It is exactly these kinds of difficult issues that require me to take a more moderate view on the abortion issue. I cannot put the recently fertilized egg on the same level as fully grown adult, newborn child, or even a fetus at 8 months of pregnancy. Qualitatively, it isn't even close. Where to draw the line is a very difficult question - and one I don't pretend to have an answer to, nor will I adopt an arbitrary bright line for its convenience and ease. Thus I reject either extreme of attaching human rights as early as the moment of fertilization or as late as physical birth. The law in the U.S. recongizes this difficultly, and this grey area, as do I.

So, while we currently choose to divide on this issue, I suggest we work harder to find common ground. Let us all work together to vastly decrease the reasons one would want to have an abortion. Let us ensure that no woman who is pregant will ever have to worry about the future for her unborn child whether or not she chooses to keep it or give it up for adoption. Let us drop the enflamatory language and words, such as "murder," and work towards viable solutions. Making abortion illegal will not make abortions go away, so lets work towards real answers on both sides.

My 2 cents.
You cant compare these two situations. Abortion= fighting against life. In vitro fertilization=fighting for life. and you can never compare an abortion with a miscarriage. In vitro fertilization seeks a new life to come into this world. No woman wanting to have a baby and willing to do anything to get ppregnant will never have the intention of killing a baby. Many in vitro fertilizations end up in twins or triplets or even more in some cases (not common but happens). This women accept the babies God let live they never say I'll keep one and kill the others. The babies that can't make it are miscarriged because no one does anything to harm them they just couldnt make it. IN AN ABORTION A WOMAN DELIBERATELY DECIDES TO KILL A BABY AND THAT IS A CRIME.:sigh:
 
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tcampen

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Licy said:
You cant compare these two situations. Abortion= fighting against life. In vitro fertilization=fighting for life. and you can never compare an abortion with a miscarriage. In vitro fertilization seeks a new life to come into this world. No woman wanting to have a baby and willing to do anything to get ppregnant will never have the intention of killing a baby. Many in vitro fertilizations end up in twins or triplets or even more in some cases (not common but happens). This women accept the babies God let live they never say I'll keep one and kill the others. The babies that can't make it are miscarriged because no one does anything to harm them they just couldnt make it. IN AN ABORTION A WOMAN DELIBERATELY DECIDES TO KILL A BABY AND THAT IS A CRIME.:sigh:
You're forgetting that not all the eggs fertilized are implanted in the mother. Most are discarded, which is wholly different than what you are talking about.

Furthermore, attempting to implant 4 fertilized eggs, knowing that the odds are less than 50% that any will attach is no different. The odds all four will attached is miniscule - thus, it is known in doing the in vitro procedure that some fertilized eggs will necessarily be destroyed in the process. The intent of the individual to try to "create life" is irrelevant to the known end result.

It's like saying if someone else places the RU-486 pill in the pregnant woman's mouth, it's not really intended to cause a miscarriage.

I'm sorry, but your reasoning simply does not hold up here.
 
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tcampen

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fluffy_rainbow said:
I'm not trying to step on toes here, as this is almost a completely separate issue altogether, but I am opposed to invitro fertilization. In my opinion, couples cannot conceive naturally for a reason. When we start fiddling around with our bodies trying to implant something from an outside source looking to get a desired end result, we're playing God. Why can't couples who can't conceive adopt a child who desperately needs a home instead of messing around with hormones and unnatural methods of trying to get pregnant?
Many do just that. However, one can make the same argument against a heart transplant by saying, "When we start fiddling around with our bodies trying to implant something from an outside source looking to get a desired end result, we're playing God."

In vitro fertilization allows parents to have their own children. I don't know if you have your own children, but if you don't, I suspect you might reconsider your position if you ever wanted them, but found you could not but for the in vitro process. If you do have children, I'm sure you can understand how much they mean to you - and then relate to how much my brother's son means to him and his wife.

Food for thought.
 
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fluffy_rainbow

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tcampen, I respect your position in this matter. While I am not barren, my doctors have seriously urged me to consider not getting pregnant due to many health conditions that pregnancy could seriously exacerbate the condition and also jeopardize the health of the unborn child. If I did become pregnant, however, I would not have an abortion. Doctors can be wrong, but I would like to err on the side of caution and take measures to not get pregnant. Yes, it breaks my heart because I was pregnant by my ex-husband and five weeks into the pregnancy, he beat me and I had a miscarriage. I am lucky though, as that child was spared the abuse I suffered for almost two years at his hands. I know we will be re-united in heaven. It hurts me because I may not be able to offer my future husband (if God wills for me to marry again) the one thing many men desire - a child of their own. But praise God, this give me the opportunity to adopt a child who needs a home.
 
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tcampen

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Fluffy,

I am so sorry to hear of your ordeal. I work with domestic violence victims and offenders for my profession, so I am intimately aware of the devestation caused by such acts - although I won't pretend to know your loss.

I deeply respect your position, and wouldn't dare try to change it. My point is that reasonable, sincere and caring people can have legitimate, yet different, opinions on this subject, and those opinions themselves vary greatly. It really isn't a black or white issue. It's complicated, difficult and emotional.

I'm glad to hear you're with a good person now, I and hope all works out for the best for you.

-t
 
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