Abortion vs War

[ProCommunioneFacior]

For those that are going to vote for Kerry over Bush because of his views on the war, and ignoring abortion, check out these stats. They should put things in perspective:

Total war casualities in U.S. history from 1700's through 1970's:
Revolutionary War - 4,435 deaths
Civil War (both North and South) - 498,332 deaths
World War I - 116,708 deaths
World War II - 407,316 deaths
Korean War - 25,604 deaths
Vietnam War - 58,164 deaths
Total in above wars - 1,110,559 deaths

Total aborted babies from 1973 through April 2004:
44,670,812 deaths (http://www.htmlbible.com/abortstats.htm)

Imagine total deaths in war is below the number of aborted deaths (1,400,000) for every year.

Look at statistics for Iraq war...
according to http://icasualties.org/oif/

919 U.S. soldiers killed
61 British soldiers killed
around 750 Iraqi civilians killed
--------------------------------------------
1,730 total killed in Iraq



Personally, I do not see how anybody can justify voting for Kerry.

 

[stray bullet]

The really bad thing, if abortion was made illegal, that would cause a lot of women to seriously consider being more careful. Right now our culture says you don't have to be all that careful because you can just kill your baby if you get pregnant.

I don't understand why we are allowed to let 45,000,000 children be killed like that

 

[ProCommunioneFacior]

It boggles the mind.

It amazes me how bad of a stigma Nazis and Hitler have in our country, and for good reason, but the fact is that we are worst than them.

Hitler did not kill 45 million people.

 

[mrsilent]

a while ago there was a tv show about the abortian ship;A semi-large sea going schip that was rebuilt to a sea going abortian clinic,it sails through europe and targets the overwhelmingly catholic countries{like poland}where abortian is still against the law,though the ship isnt allowed in the harbour it waits in the open see while smaller ships pick up the women who want an abortian{this all with great secrecy}mostly very young women some still children.

pro-choice.................

 

[ProCommunioneFacior]

Yes, I've heard that Ireland is its favorite target. It is definitely sickening.

 

[faerieevaH]

Well... if you look at the number of casualties you certainly have a case, proud2becatholic. But let's put this in another perspective. Bush has been president for 4 years now? Has he abolished abortion? It seems he has not. Has he started a war? It seems he has. The abortion laws are already in place. I do not see John Kerry proposing laws to make it even easier to abort children. I have however seen Bush make decisions that have effectively cost lives that would not have been lost without his decisions. You can talk about numbers... you can also talk about responsabilities. Is John Kerry personally responsible for the way abortion laws are at the moment? No. Is Bush responsible for having made the decision to go to war?



((Note: this is not a statement about wether or not the decision to go to war in Afghanistan or Iraq was right or wrong. This is a statement about the argument of the aproach of how to dimish abortions versus the aproach towards war.))


I'm not saying Kerry is the better of the two. I just wish you had a system that didn't force you all to chose between Scylla and Charibdis!

 

[PeterPaul]

I'm not saying Kerry is the better of the two. I just wish you had a system that didn't force you all to chose between Scylla and Charibdis!

Exactly! At this point, Tin Tin is looking like the better option!

 

[stray bullet]

Well... if you look at the number of casualties you certainly have a case, proud2becatholic. But let's put this in another perspective. Bush has been president for 4 years now? Has he abolished abortion? It seems he has not. Has he started a war? It seems he has. The abortion laws are already in place. I do not see John Kerry proposing laws to make it even easier to abort children. I have however seen Bush make decisions that have effectively cost lives that would not have been lost without his decisions. You can talk about numbers... you can also talk about responsabilities. Is John Kerry personally responsible for the way abortion laws are at the moment? No. Is Bush responsible for having made the decision to go to war?

Bush can't do anything about abortion except to appoint a Supreme Court judge to overturn Roe Vs Wade. They basically have to sit around until a judge steps down or dies.

If Kerry is elected, he would pick a pro-choice judge, whereas Bush would not.

If you vote for Kerry, you are voting for a pro-choice Supreme Court. If you vote for Bush, you vote for a pro-life Supreme Court. If you vote for Kerry, you are saying what is going on is acceptable.

 

[Skripper]

Yes, I've heard that Ireland is its favorite target. It is definitely sickening.

Wow, it sure is. This is the first I've heard of it. How absolutely horrible that such a thing exists. I did a little checking and found this little bit of good news.

"The idea is to take women on board and sail out to international waters, where the group will be able to offer non-surgical abortions. However, no abortions were carried out when the ship visited Ireland." http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3891859.stm

 

[faerieevaH]

Bush can't do anything about abortion except to appoint a Supreme Court judge to overturn Roe Vs Wade. They basically have to sit around until a judge steps down or dies.

If Kerry is elected, he would pick a pro-choice judge, whereas Bush would not.

If you vote for Kerry, you are voting for a pro-choice Supreme Court. If you vote for Bush, you vote for a pro-life Supreme Court. If you vote for Kerry, you are saying what is going on is acceptable.

Not really, I think what you would say is: while we are waiting for a judge to die, let's not add to this guit of lifes we owe by adding others. Judges could still live another 3..6...9 years. In the mean time, I'ld like to see someone who tackles other problems, including the mindset that is cause of so many abortions, as well as unsuffiscient education about the subject.

 

[PeterPaul]

In the mean time, I'ld like to see someone who tackles other problems, including the mindset that is cause of so many abortions, as well as unsuffiscient education about the subject.

The problem is the government will only educate what it deems as legal. Condoms are passed around at school, and literally there is no alternative. We, as Catholics, are considered haters for advising against pre-marital sex, alternatives to abortion, and so on.

 

[faerieevaH]

Abstinence is still legal, I hope? *G* Or would I be commiting crimes should I come to the US?

 

[PeterPaul]

Abstinence is still legal, I hope? *G* Or would I be commiting crimes should I come to the US?

oops! LOL

 

[CrystalBrooke]

i blame the school system for teenage girls getting pregnant and having abortions. bc it seems like all they want to teach it "safe sex", when really no sex is safe sex, there are always risks involved, then when the girl gets pregnant, she like "oh now i wont be able to go out and im gonna get fat, i think i'll kill it" little does she seem to know that there are also risks involved in having an abortion. hmmm...can the government change what the schools teach about sex?

 

[faerieevaH]

There is an advertisement running in movie theaters here in Belgium that at the same time annoys me and impresses me.

It's a computer game, and you hear one of those 'advertising voices': the new ultra sensational game 'TEENAGE MOM'. In it you see the contents of the 'game' like you see in advertisements for example of the LOTR games, or Lara Croft or whatever, while the voice goes: "Change diapers around the clock" (see young girl, changing diapers), try to study while your baby keeps you up all night (see young girl running from books to cradle, each time she runs to the cradle the level of books she still has to study rises), keep your eyes on your baby but... don't miss important phonecalls from your friends (see girl running to ringing phone, then change back to baby crawling around to put him back in the cradle while an 'inset' of a friend tries to call and then gives up, with the message 'friend lost')... your ultimate challenge: not to get a nervous breakdown!! Then you hear a voice saying: teenage pregnancy is NOT a game: safe sex: talk about it, practice it!

What do I admire: basically, its well done. I see in the reactions of the audience that they get the point. What I don't like is they are not even pointing at the other option: wait till you are ready to have a baby, in body, mind, heart and circumstances, before you start having sex.
What I also don't like is that -for those that did get pregnant- it seems like a larger incentive to try and have an abortion rather then 'face that'. While having a baby will be a blessing AND a challenge for everyone, a grown and ready woman would be more up to it then a teenage girl, certainly after seeing that.

On the other side... Belgiums 'level' of abortion is much lower then in the US, as is the 'level' of teenage pregnancies.

 

[entropy_rising]

Hullo. Abortion is wrong. It's murder.

But faerieeva has been so excellently putting it, there are more things to factor in. What the president actually has control over is an important factor on what they are capable of morally changing.

As people have said before, abortion is a waiting game for Supreme Court Judges to die.

But the war is directly in the hands of the president, since he is Commander and Chief.

Abortion is wrong, and in some ways, so is the war on Iraq.

I think it's a matter of getting Kerry to be more true to his religion - not comparing statistics between the war and abortion. They're both obviously not moral on many counts.

750 Iraqi civilians killed?

I thought it was around 10,000.

 

[Servant of the Kingdom]

Can't the constitution be ammended?

-- those figures only included US casualties btw --

 

[entropy_rising]

Mhm, the constitution can be amended. Unfortunately I'm not familiar with how exactly that's done, but I -do- know that amending the constituion is only for very DRASTIC and IMPORTANT measures. Like the abolishment of slavery.

 

[InnerPhyre]

What boggles my mind.....The PURPOSE of sex is to create offspring. We have forgotten that as a society. When the natural result of having sex comes to fruition and a child is conceived, people freak out and act like "Oh my Lord....how could this have happened? This is awful!" Maybe the child in your womb doesn't think it's so awful! Maybe the child in your womb is happy to be alive! As for Bush, what he can do is limited, but he has taken steps to end partial birth abortion, which is more than I can say for Kerry who says that teenagers should be able to have abortions without their parents knowing.

 

[entropy_rising]

Does voting for Kerry constitute a sin?