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Abortion rate at lowest point since 1976

I <3 Abraham

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The Bible mentions at least one form of contraception specifically and condemns it. Coitus interruptus, was used by Onan to avoid fulfilling his duty according to the ancient Jewish law of fathering children for one’s dead brother. "Judah said to Onan, ‘Go in to your brother’s wife, and perform the duty of a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother.’ But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brother’s wife he spilled the sperm on the ground, lest he should give offspring to his brother. And what he did was displeasing in the sight of the Lord, and he slew him also" (Gen. 38:8–10).

The biblical penalty for not giving your brother’s widow children was public humiliation, not death (Deut. 25:7–10). But Onan received death as punishment for his crime. This means his crime was more than simply not fulfilling the duty of a brother-in-law. He lost his life because he violated natural law, as Jewish and Christian commentators have always understood.


I agree with Fyodoros, I had always heard the whole "unitive and procreative aspect" thing bandied about like scripture. But I read through the Catholic Library's explanation and I gotta say, the Catholic church usually has better biblical justification for their beliefs ESPECIALLY the Catholic Library site.
 
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rosenherman

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I <3 Abraham said:
The Bible mentions at least one form of contraception specifically and condemns it.
No it does not condemn it.


Coitus interruptus, was used by Onan to avoid fulfilling his duty according to the ancient Jewish law of fathering children for one’s dead brother. "Judah said to Onan, ‘Go in to your brother’s wife, and perform the duty of a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother.’ But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brother’s wife he spilled the sperm on the ground, lest he should give offspring to his brother. And what he did was displeasing in the sight of the Lord, and he slew him also" (Gen. 38:8–10).

The biblical penalty for not giving your brother’s widow children was public humiliation, not death (Deut. 25:7–10). But Onan received death as punishment for his crime. This means his crime was more than simply not fulfilling the duty of a brother-in-law.
He lost his life because he violated natural law, as Jewish and Christian commentators have always understood.

He lost his life because he disobeyed God.
 
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I <3 Abraham

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rosenherman said:
No it does not condemn it.




He lost his life because he disobeyed God.

This confusion is my fault for not citing correctly. My last post was almost entirely taken from the Catholic library site that Holly3278 links in her post earlier. I was only using it to show the very small amount of scripture used to justify a traditional Catholic belief.
 
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platzapS

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Catholic website said:
But sexual pleasure within marriage becomes unnatural, and even harmful to the spouses, when it is used in a way that deliberately excludes the basic purpose of sex, which is procreation. God’s gift of the sex act, along with its pleasure and intimacy, must not be abused by deliberately frustrating its natural end—procreation.
So is it morally wrong for a couple past the age of conception to have sex?
 
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platzapS

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Sorry that we've veered off-topic. This is excellent that abortion rates have gone down. I agree that one of the best ways to limit abortion is comprehensive sex education. Schools should teach abstinence as the only totally safe way to prevent pregnancies/STDs/broken hearts, but also spend time on proper use of birth control methods. If people engaging in sex anyway use contraception methods more frequently, it leads to fewer unwanted pregnancies. Fewer unwanted pregnancies = fewer abortions. Contraception saves lives.
 
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Ave Maria

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I <3 Abraham said:
Okay, I'll bite. Why would only a Catholic understand?

Technically anyone who is willing can understand but I don't feel like explaining it at this time.
 
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Lillithspeak

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The whole Catholic moral position regarding contraception falls apart when they authorize the "rhythm" method. By deliberately avoiding sex during a woman's fertile period and deliberately having sex when she isn't fertile means you are having sex for pleasure only- and have no intention of being OPEN to procreation. Right?
 
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Maynard Keenan

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Every birth control method has a perfect use effectiveness and an actual effectiveness.

Condoms are somthing like 99 and 90. BC pills like 99.9 and 99. Abstinance like 100 and 60. The difference is abstinance is the hardest method to use and the leats attractive to people. Sex has been around forever and it aleways will be. If you seek to combat pregnancy by telling people not to have sex, you will look back after your life and realize you gave it your best but accomplished not a darn thing. It'd be just like the totally ineffective "war on drugs."

Want to slash abortion rates? Make sure people have safe sex. In some countries with similar sexual activity rates as the US and legal abortion, abortions are like 20% of what we have. Because peopel DON'T GET PREGNANT because everyone is taught how to utilize birth control and strongly ewncouraged to use it. Don't like BC? Think of it as the lesser of two evils. A million babies aborted or a million peopel having sex with BC. Which is worse? Because with your abstinance-only farce you may end up with 50,000 actually doing it and 950,000 abortions from those who didnt listen.
 
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trunks2k said:

So if I am reading that right -- using no birth control at all, and engaging in normal sexual activity, there is a 85% chance that a pregnancy will occur within 1 year?

A lot of time's I've seen people say that sex ed is innecessary because people will figure out how to use the condoms if they want to. Although I'd suspect that improper use and failure to understand the importance of various precautions is what accounts for the 11% difference in the effectiveness of Condoms, and the 4.9% difference with the pill -- it's vital to know how to use these things, and their limitations if you are to properly benefit from them.

As it is, it seems that my son is a 0.1% kinda guy...
 
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Chosen One

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Fantine said:
I think that the reduced number of abortions may be partially due to the use of the morning after pill.

I think that early chemical aboritons (RU-486) are still counted as abortions, but the morning-after pill, which needs to be taken within 72 hours of intercourse, long before a pregnancy can be confirmed, would not be.

There are also many places where abortions are unaffordable or unavailable. I don't think there is an abortion provider in the state where I live. There probably is in a city in an adjacent state about 115 miles away.

This is a very positive trend as long as the additional children who are being born will be cradled in a safety net of healthcare, food, and living assistance if their mothers cannot provide for them adequately.

A true pro-life position extends past the delivery date of the infant.

Fantine said:
A true pro-life position extends past the delivery date of the infant.

Great post. I have a friend who says that Christians (I think he means Republicans- he tends to lump them together) care about you only just before you are born (antiabortion) and just before you die (anti-euthaniasia) but not inbetween (anti-welfare).

I will have to forward him your comment.

Regarding the number of abortions under Bush- they didn't increase- but the number was decreasing before 2001 and then bottom out and was even. See article below for what it is worth. The author is most likely a communist.

[font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Pro-life? Look at the fruits[/font]
by Dr. Glen Harold Stassen advertisement
I am a Christian ethicist, and trained in statistical analysis. I am consistently pro-life. My son David is one witness. For my family, "pro-life" is personal. My wife caught rubella in the eighth week of her pregnancy. We decided not to terminate, to love and raise our baby. David is legally blind and severely handicapped; he also is a blessing to us and to the world.

I look at the fruits of political policies more than words. I analyzed the data on abortion during the George W. Bush presidency. There is no single source for this information - federal reports go only to 2000, and many states do not report - but I found enough data to identify trends. My findings are counterintuitive and disturbing.

Abortion was decreasing. When President Bush took office, the nation's abortion rates were at a 24-year low, after a 17.4% decline during the 1990s. This was an average decrease of 1.7% per year, mostly during the latter part of the decade. (This data comes from Minnesota Citizens Concerned for Life using the Guttmacher Institute's studies).

Enter George W. Bush in 2001. One would expect the abortion rate to continue its consistent course downward, if not plunge. Instead, the opposite happened.

I found three states that have posted multi-year statistics through 2003, and abortion rates have risen in all three: Kentucky's increased by 3.2% from 2000 to 2003. Michigan's increased by 11.3% from 2000 to 2003. Pennsylvania's increased by 1.9% from 1999 to 2002. I found 13 additional states that reported statistics for 2001 and 2002. Eight states saw an increase in abortion rates (14.6% average increase), and five saw a decrease (4.3% average decrease).

Under President Bush, the decade-long trend of declining abortion rates appears to have reversed. Given the trends of the 1990s, 52,000 more abortions occurred in the United States in 2002 than would have been expected before this change of direction.

How could this be? I see three contributing factors:

First, two thirds of women who abort say they cannot afford a child (Minnesota Citizens Concerned for Life Web site). In the past three years, unemployment rates increased half again. Not since Hoover had there been a net loss of jobs during a presidency until the current administration. Average real incomes decreased, and for seven years the minimum wage has not been raised to match inflation. With less income, many prospective mothers fear another mouth to feed.

Second, half of all women who abort say they do not have a reliable mate (Minnesota Citizens Concerned for Life). Men who are jobless usually do not marry. Only three of the 16 states had more marriages in 2002 than in 2001, and in those states abortion rates decreased. In the 16 states overall, there were 16,392 fewer marriages than the year before, and 7,869 more abortions. As male unemployment increases, marriages fall and abortion rises.

Third, women worry about health care for themselves and their children. Since 5.2 million more people have no health insurance now than before this presidency - with women of childbearing age overrepresented in those 5.2 million - abortion increases.

The U.S. Catholic Bishops warned of this likely outcome if support for families with children was cut back. My wife and I know - as does my son David - that doctors, nurses, hospitals, medical insurance, special schooling, and parental employment are crucial for a special child. David attended the Kentucky School for the Blind, as well as several schools for children with cerebral palsy and other disabilities. He was mainstreamed in public schools as well. We have two other sons and five grandchildren, and we know that every mother, father, and child needs public and family support.

What does this tell us? Economic policy and abortion are not separate issues; they form one moral imperative. Rhetoric is hollow, mere tinkling brass, without health care, health insurance, jobs, child care, and a living wage. Pro-life in deed, not merely in word, means we need policies that provide jobs and health insurance and support for prospective mothers.

Glen Stassen is the Lewis B. Smedes Professor of Christian Ethics at Fuller Theological Seminary, and the co-author of Kingdom Ethics: Following Jesus in Contemporary Context, Christianity Today's Book of the Year in theology or ethics.
 
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Sycophant

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Chosen One said:
Pro-life? Look at the fruits
by Dr. Glen Harold Stassen
I am a Christian ethicist, and trained in statistical analysis. I am consistently pro-life. My son David is one witness. For my family, "pro-life" is personal. My wife caught rubella in the eighth week of her pregnancy. We decided not to terminate, to love and raise our baby. David is legally blind and severely handicapped; he also is a blessing to us and to the world.

That's a very interesting aricle.

Having recently become a father, I can certainly understand the concern about finances (and I earn reasonably well) - and I don't even have to worry about medical costs (all healthcare for under 5's is free here including prescriptions, and we have a nationalised health system) - but even with that, the financial strain is very real for me.

If I were still a student, or unemployed, even with a reasonably workable welfare system here, then the strain of raising a child would be even greater - so great that it certainly might seem impossible.
 
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[PONG] Did youforgettosign my guestbook[/PONG]
 
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Black_Knight

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Maynard Keenan said:
Condoms are somthing like 99 and 90. BC pills like 99.9 and 99. Abstinance like 100 and 60.

I always wondered about those figures -

Does it mean, (say)

a) 100 people use condoms as many times as they want, and for 1 person, the ball eventually gets past the goalie and pregnancy may or may not happen

b) 100 people use condoms as many times as they want, the ball gets past the goalie a few times and statistically, pregnancy does happen

c) a person (say) has sex 100 times and in 1 case, the ball gets past the goalie and pregnancy may or may not happen

d) a person (say) has sex 100 times and the ball gets past the goalie a few times and statistically, pregnancy does happen

I mean, you can say 99%, but that depends on how you calculate the figures.
 
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