Abortion Discussion

Archivist · Mar 13, 2016

redleghunter said:
Define involuntary servitude. I ask because some define all pregnancies as such.

I've already posted cites for two law review articles discussing it. The standard definition is "a person laboring against that person's will to benefit another under some form of coercion." Every definition I've seen exempts paid salary as coercion. I have never heard all pregnancies as such, nor would a wanted pregnancy meet that definition. Now, please, answer my question. Or do you not have an answer?

Uncle Siggy · Mar 13, 2016

redleghunter said:
Why not instead give the offended woman the right to name the punishment for the rapist?

Can you say Lorena Bobbitt...

Uncle Siggy · Mar 13, 2016

Subduction Zone said:
Naah, I am sure that there is nothing new there.

You might be surprised...

Uncle Siggy · Mar 13, 2016

redleghunter said:
Perhaps if the offended woman had the piece of mind the rapist was in jail for life she would look to the child as not the offender but a victim as she is.

Ahhh but the pro choicers won't...

Uncle Siggy · Mar 13, 2016

redleghunter said:
Is this a robotic response?

Of course it is scientifically proven a new human life begins at conception.

Abortion: Scientific evidence for new human being at conception:

http://www.christianforums.com/thre...arding-abortion.7926139/page-28#post-69098593

http://www.christianforums.com/thre...arding-abortion.7926139/page-27#post-69097465

http://www.christianforums.com/thre...arding-abortion.7926139/page-28#post-69098685

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/why-abortion-is-immoral.7923648/page-42#post-69092147

http://www.christianforums.com/thre...n-a-fetuss-life.7915201/page-10#post-69082245

So how many time does this make you've posted those links now???

PapaZoom · Mar 13, 2016

Archivist said:
Actually no, and if you are saying this you obviously do not understand the pro-choice position. No one is saying that a fetus that results from rape should be killed. What our side us saying us that the choice should rest with the rape victim. She should not be forced to carry a fetus that resulted from a rape to term against her will.

some are saying just that

PapaZoom · Mar 13, 2016

Archivist said:
When people have nothing intelligent to say they start throwing insults, as you have done here. You originally claimed that a sperm was "a life." It is not. It is alive, but it us not "a life." Sperm are short lived. Sperm gave but one purpose--to unite with an egg. Sperm cannot reproduce--a sprrm cannot produce other sperm.

Still waiting for you to admit that your statement was wrong.

I'm still right. You're still wrong.

Uncle Siggy · Mar 13, 2016

PapaZoom said:
What's really funny to me is how many pro choicers use old and long ago debunked arguments.

And it's been debunked by the "science" they always refer to when it comes to all other subjects, except for this one. This one seems to require more rationalization and many more posters doing it than all the others, it's their Unholy Grail...

Uncle Siggy · Mar 13, 2016

PapaZoom said:
Her friend was shocked.

That usually happens when the truth is presented to them...

PapaZoom · Mar 13, 2016

Cearbhall said:
Who says that? I'm not aware of any "should" position.

proof you didn't read the article

Cearbhall · Mar 13, 2016

PapaZoom said:
proof you didn't read the article

Oh, I read it through. I don't see any sources for the claim that people tell Rebecca that she "should" have been aborted.

PapaZoom · Mar 13, 2016

Cearbhall said:
Who says that? I'm not aware of any "should" position.

Cearbhall · Mar 13, 2016

PapaZoom said:

Ok, but you made it sound like there were pro-choice people saying this. Saying that a child is demon spawn and should have been aborted (implying a moral obligation) isn't exactly respecting the woman's choice.

ToddNotTodd · Mar 13, 2016

Cearbhall said:
Ok, but you made it sound like there were pro-choice people saying this. Saying that a child is demon spawn and should have been aborted (implying a moral obligation) isn't exactly respecting the woman's choice.

And saying that anything at all is from Satan definitely isn't something a non-theist would be saying...

tiglathpileser · Mar 13, 2016

ToddNotTodd said:
Abortion doesn't kill babies:

ba·by
ˈbābē/
noun

1.
a very young child, especially one newly or recently born.
"his wife's just had a baby"
synonyms: infant, newborn, child, tot, little one; More

According to the people performing the abortions is does. I live in the world of reality not the world of a dictionary. Each to his own.

Cearbhall · Mar 13, 2016

tiglathpileser said:
According to the people performing the abortions is does. I live in the world of reality not the world of a dictionary. Each to his own.

The people who perform abortions are doctors and would be most likely to use proper medical terms when appropriate. Though of course, we all use colloquial language at times.

ToddNotTodd · Mar 13, 2016

tiglathpileser said:
According to the people performing the abortions is does. I live in the world of reality not the world of a dictionary. Each to his own.

As luck would have it, I live in a city that had a well known abortionist. He didn't believe that a fetus should be called a baby. And dictionaries typically reflect how a society defines something. You can call a fetus a cheeseburger if you'd like, but I don't think you'll be able to hold an intelligible conversation on the topic.

Douglas Hendrickson · Mar 13, 2016

Subduction Zone said: ↑
You need to show that this is a full "human being" if you want to stop others from killing it. Again, the burden of proof is upon those that are telling others what they have to do with their body.

redleghunter said:
What is your definition of "fully human."

"Subduction" is NOT talking about "fully human."

What "full 'human being'" means is an actual human being, an actual animal being of the human species, in other words a baby born. No one should ever kill a real baby, of course.

tiglathpileser · Mar 13, 2016

Subduction Zone said:
It could be legitimately argued that that is the case. Look at how the Bible says that slaves are supposed to love their masters and work happily. The Bible makes some pretty crazy claims about authority. That one is supposed to obey the government seems to be one of them.

Your argument is found wanting on the basis of standard exegesis. That being the case, it could not be legitimately argued. You need to look at the context, without which, you cannot exegete scripture. And your claim about obeying the government is crazy shows that again, you have ignored context and the scripture gives no indication whatsoever that God approves of any specific law although we are to obey the government.

Now let me inform you about correct exegesis. The scripture says to obey the government. The question arises "what if the law means we have to disobey scripture." The next step is to search the scripture regarding biblical relates to the situation and then we determine if the law demands we ignore scripture, then the law is subservient to scripture because the overwhelming evidence shows that is the case.

One thing we DON'T do is just pick a verse of scripture and say "there you are, that is what the scripture says."

tiglathpileser · Mar 13, 2016

ToddNotTodd said:
As luck would have it, I live in a city that had a well known abortionist. He didn't believe that a fetus should be called a baby. And dictionaries typically reflect how a society defines something. You can call a fetus a cheeseburger if you'd like, but I don't think you'll be able to hold an intelligible conversation on the topic.

As luck would have it, two of the most well known abortionists in the USA are on record as saying that every abortion kills a baby. And your comment about calling a baby a cheeseburger is rather infantile.

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