abortion and euthanasia - whose choice?

[HannahBanana]

Well, as you descried them 'poor' I doubt they have much money for insurance. Addicts also have a hard time getting insurance. As for the mentally ill, they may be able to get insurance but if they are so ill that they are trying to commit suicide they are probably under lock and key. Doesn't exactly sound like the easily impregnable type.

They could still be on their parents' insurance plan, you know. Or they could be married and on their husband's insurance plan. Not to mention plenty of jobs include health insurance these days, so the woman could be getting her health insurance from her job.

Besides, most abortions are horny teens right?

No, of course not. Plenty of married women have unwanted pregnancies, too. After all, just because a woman is married doesn't mean that she's ready (or willing) to become pregnant.

 

[david_x]

As I see it, once the genetic code is complete it is an individual with it's own rights.

 

[lawtonfogle]

No person is required to give up their rights for another to live physically off of the use of their body. I cannot force you to give me a kidney to save my life even if you are the only match. If I were to try to remove it by force, you would be justified in using what ever force, even lethal, needed to stop me.

 

[david_x]

No person is required to give up their rights for another to live physically off of the use of their body. I cannot force you to give me a kidney to save my life even if you are the only match. If I were to try to remove it by force, you would be justified in using what ever force, even lethal, needed to stop me.

Yet sex is a contract that does just that.

 

[Skaloop]

Yet sex is a contract that does just that.

Sex is not a contract, and even if it were, it would be between the participants, not between the mother and the not-yet-in-existence fetus. Also, such contracts can be broken. I could promise to donate a kidney, even sign off that I am going to do it. But I am free to change my mind at the last second.

 

[HannahBanana]

Yet sex is a contract that does just that.

Sex isn't any sort of a contract, though. Otherwise, women would get pregnant every time they had sex, and that thankfully isn't the case. All sex is, for most people, is a gamble. Since most women don't track their fertility, it's a matter of luck in terms of whether or not they end up pregnant after having sex. Even when they use protection, luck is still involved, since protection can sometimes fail. So why should women be punished for something that's out of their control, such as whether or not they end up pregnant after having sex?

 

[david_x]

They could still be on their parents' insurance plan, you know. Or they could be married and on their husband's insurance plan. Not to mention plenty of jobs include health insurance these days, so the woman could be getting her health insurance from her job.

Perhaps you need to define poor then.

No, of course not. Plenty of married women have unwanted pregnancies, too. After all, just because a woman is married doesn't mean that she's ready (or willing) to become pregnant.

... sarcasm.

 

[HannahBanana]

Perhaps you need to define poor then.

Poor means not being able to afford more than the absolute necessities in life, such as food, shelter, clothing, and utilities (gas, water, and electricity). If you can't afford those things, or you can only afford those things but can't afford anything else, then you're poor.

Just because someone has health insurance doesn't mean they're not poor. Plenty of minimum-wage full-time jobs include health insurance plans.

... sarcasm.

How was I supposed to know it was sarcasm?

 

[david_x]

Poor means not being able to afford more than the absolute necessities in life, such as food, shelter, clothing, and utilities (gas, water, and electricity). If you can't afford those things, or you can only afford those things but can't afford anything else, then you're poor.

Just because someone has health insurance doesn't mean they're not poor. Plenty of minimum-wage full-time jobs include health insurance plans.

I don't think you're poor if you have a full time job, so that's where we had our misunderstanding. I come from a family where we only got what we really needed, but I don't think we were poor.

 

[HannahBanana]

I don't think you're poor if you have a full time job, so that's where we had our misunderstanding. I come from a family where we only got what we really needed, but I don't think we were poor.

Do you even know how little minimum wage really is? People who have full-time minimum wage jobs usually earn around $20,000 a year, which isn't nearly enough to live on, in most parts of the country.

But back to the topic at hand. I'd appreciate it if you'd respond to this post of mine, which I just realized that you completely skipped over:

Sex isn't any sort of a contract, though. Otherwise, women would get pregnant every time they had sex, and that thankfully isn't the case. All sex is, for most people, is a gamble. Since most women don't track their fertility, it's a matter of luck in terms of whether or not they end up pregnant after having sex. Even when they use protection, luck is still involved, since protection can sometimes fail. So why should women be punished for something that's out of their control, such as whether or not they end up pregnant after having sex?

 

[david_x]

Sex isn't any sort of a contract, though. Otherwise, women would get pregnant every time they had sex, and that thankfully isn't the case. All sex is, for most people, is a gamble. Since most women don't track their fertility, it's a matter of luck in terms of whether or not they end up pregnant after having sex. Even when they use protection, luck is still involved, since protection can sometimes fail. So why should women be punished for something that's out of their control, such as whether or not they end up pregnant after having sex?

Not true. When one has sex one is under contract to take care of the baby should it start to grow.

 

[b&wpac4]

Not true. When one has sex one is under contract to take care of the baby should it start to grow.

Under contract to whom?

 

[HannahBanana]

Not true. When one has sex one is under contract to take care of the baby should it start to grow.

Where exactly is this contract that women sign every time they become pregnant?

 

[david_x]

Under contract to whom?

The child.

 

[david_x]

Where exactly is this contract that women sign every time they become pregnant?

You thought this was a literal contract this whole time!!?!

 

[HannahBanana]

The child.

Since when can fetuses sign a contract?

You thought this was a literal contract this whole time!!?!

There is no such thing as a figurative contract, so yes, I did think it was literal.

 

[lawtonfogle]

Not true. When one has sex one is under contract to take care of the baby should it start to grow.

So then rape victims are allowed to abort (you see, a contract your are physically forced to enter into is not valid), but anyone over 18 who had consensual sex is. Well, a far better position than 'no abortions ever'.

Now comes the question is 'the right to direct use of body' allowed to be given in the form of a contract? If I get some adult (remember, children cannot enter into such contracts) to sign a contract saying I can have sex with them when ever I want, until that contract is ended by legal means (as laid out in that contract), I can have sex with that person even if they have changed their mind? Exactly how far can one go to make sure they fulfill their side of that contract?

Personally, I rather say such contracts should be void and null because you can always take back 'the right to your body'. In the case of sex, you can consent to sex, but even if you consented to sex, if you say no while having it, the other person must stop or else it becomes rape. But if that is the case, then the same applies to pregnancy.

 

[lawtonfogle]

Where exactly is this contract that women sign every time they become pregnant?

Implied contracts do exist. I think that most people do not get a written form of consent from their partner before having sex. Granted, that would help the 'he said she said' rape cases out drastically.

 

[lawtonfogle]

You thought this was a literal contract this whole time!!?!

It would still be a literal contract. If it is not literal, then it is not legally binding. But it does not have to be physically written down on a piece of paper. It is a literal implied contract.

 

[lawtonfogle]

Since when can fetuses sign a contract?

I think it is incorrect to say it is a contract with the fetus as much as it is a contract about the fetus, granted there may be little difference in what can happen with both. Clearly, children can be the target of contracts (aka adoption), but they cannot enter into them (parents may, in some cases, enter into them on their behalf).