Abortion: All Should Read

[Magisterium]

For those who still cannot take responsibility for their actions, the choice was already made at conception.

I don't know about you, but I learned where babies come from a while ago. If you don't want kids...don't have sex! That's exactly where they come from. There isn't actually a stork...

This isn't intended for those who have been raped, which is less than a percent of all abortions in America. Although I'm not condoning ending a life as a result of it, there are better options.

The vast majority of abortions are a result of irresponsibility. And we're leaving peoples lives (the decision of whether or not to terminate the life) in the hands of the irresponsible. Does that make sense?

Take responsibility. You murder, you go to jail. You have sex and get pregnant, you have a kid. You can put it up for adoption...but theres no reason to pass the consequences on to your child.

STEP UP AND TAKE RESPONSIBILITY!

AMEN!!

That's exactly it!!

I'm actually pro-choice. I believe in a woman's right to choose whether or not to have sex. In fact, I'm for men having that right too! That's the real "pro choice" stance.

 

[Gallego]

Then why, o why, is a murderer charged with double homocide if he kills a pregnant woman?

I said it before: this is a circular reasoning.

In Spain, besides, the charge is not the double.

 

[rainbowprism]

I said it before: this is a circular reasoning.

In Spain, besides, the charge is not the double.

Call it what ever you want, it is still logical.

Were aren't talking about Spain's laws specifically I thought.

 

[Gallego]

Call it what ever you want, it is still logical.

Were aren't talking about Spain's laws specifically I thought.

NO, it is redundant to say that something is morally right because a law.

Because a law is made by men that think that is morally right.

And then there is a circular reasoning: something is right if we think that something is right. That is pretty obvious, it adds nothing to the conversation.

If you can put the example of USA's laws, why cannot I use my laws?
Or can we only talk about what you want?

If talking about other laws is forbidden, please put it in the Title of the thread

 

[rainbowprism]

NO, it is redundant to say that something is morally right because a law.

Because a law is made by men that think that is morally right.

And then there is a circular reasoning: something is right if we think that something is right. That is pretty obvious, it adds nothing to the conversation.

If you can put the example of USA's laws, why cannot I use my laws?
Or can we only talk about what you want?

If talking about other laws is forbidden, please put it in the Title of the thread

I didn't say you couldn't use your laws. I was asking a question. Your logic is still not pointing to where I am at....I'm not saying this is morally right because it is a law. There is a lot of laws that I find ridiculous.

I am not going to get drawn into an argument with you about this.....you are taking antagonsistic stand with me and I don't think you need to be doing that just to prove a point.

 

[challenger]

God speaks very clearly in the Bible on the value of unborn children.

What the men who wrote the Bible thought is totally irrelevant to the morality of any given situation.

 

[challenger]

For those who still cannot take responsibility for their actions, the choice was already made at conception.

I don't know about you, but I learned where babies come from a while ago. If you don't want kids...don't have sex! That's exactly where they come from. There isn't actually a stork...

This isn't intended for those who have been raped, which is less than a percent of all abortions in America. Although I'm not condoning ending a life as a result of it, there are better options.

The vast majority of abortions are a result of irresponsibility. And we're leaving peoples lives (the decision of whether or not to terminate the life) in the hands of the irresponsible. Does that make sense?

Take responsibility. You murder, you go to jail. You have sex and get pregnant, you have a kid. You can put it up for adoption...but theres no reason to pass the consequences on to your child.

STEP UP AND TAKE RESPONSIBILITY!

And if the mother's life is at risk?

 

[Carl Carlson]

What the men who wrote the Bible thought is totally irrelevant to the morality of any given situation.

Man on its own could not write the Bible. It has over 40 writers and was written over a 1600 year span. The Bible has everything to do with the morality of every given situation. Is God irrelevant? Is is Holy Word inspired by infallible man?

The Bible doesn't attempt to defend it's inspiration. But here is an interesting thing: Genesis opens with the words "God said" nine times in the first chapter. The statement, "Thus says the Lord" appears 23 times in the Old Testament Book, Malachi. So you have "God says" from Genesis to Malachi. "The Lord Spoke" appears 560 times in the first 5 books of the Bible and atleast 3,000 times in the whole Old Testament! Isaiah claims at least 40 times that his message came directly from the Lord; Ezekiel, 60 times; and Jeremiah, 100 times.

There are about 3,856 verses directly or indirectly concerned with prophecy in scripture. God's challenge to the world is, "Prove Me now...I the LORD have spoken it: it shall come to pass."

God wrote the Bible. Men held the pen.

 

[challenger]

Man on its own could not write the Bible. It has over 40 writers and was written over a 1600 year span. The Bible has everything to do with the morality of every given situation. Is God irrelevant? Is is Holy Word inspired by infallible man?

Unless the Bible was kept and preserved and added to by the people who believed its earlier claims...

The Bible doesn't attempt to defend it's inspiration. But here is an interesting thing: Genesis opens with the words "God said" nine times in the first chapter. The statement, "Thus says the Lord" appears 23 times in the Old Testament Book, Malachi. So you have "God says" from Genesis to Malachi. "The Lord Spoke" appears 560 times in the first 5 books of the Bible and atleast 3,000 times in the whole Old Testament! Isaiah claims at least 40 times that his message came directly from the Lord; Ezekiel, 60 times; and Jeremiah, 100 times.

There are about 3,856 verses directly or indirectly concerned with prophecy in scripture. God's challenge to the world is, "Prove Me now...I the LORD have spoken it: it shall come to pass."

God wrote the Bible. Men held the pen.

There is no evidence whatsoever that "God wrote the Bible", just the assertion of a lot of Christians, who can't know themselves. You might have faith in the Bible and you can believe that its the word of God if you want, but don't expect me to change my opinions on an ethical issue because you type out a load of Bible quotes (the original context of this discussion).

 

[Carl Carlson]

And if the mother's life is at risk?

Pray. Pray that God's will be done. Pray for a healthy mother and child.

Did you know that many of our most respected people on this earth were born despite a mother receiving contradictory advice? Beethoven's mother was told to have him aborted. If someone thinks that God cannot heal a woman and child then they have called God a liar, because His Word says otherwise.

Lord, I pray for all pregnant mothers to make decisions that will be inside your will. That you would bless them with good health. That you would bless the baby with good health. That you would use them to bring glory to Your name. Amen.

 

[Carl Carlson]

Unless the Bible was kept and preserved and added to by the people who believed its earlier claims...


There is no evidence whatsoever that "God wrote the Bible", just the assertion of a lot of Christians, who can't know themselves. You might have faith in the Bible and you can believe that its the word of God if you want, but don't expect me to change my opinions on an ethical issue because you type out a load of Bible quotes (the original context of this discussion).

Where do your "ethics" come from?

If you could do something for me to help your argument...prove the Bible wrong.

Thanks.

 

[challenger]

Pray. Pray that God's will be done. Pray for a healthy mother and child.

Did you know that many of our most respected people on this earth were born despite a mother receiving contradictory advice? Beethoven's mother was told to have him aborted. If someone thinks that God cannot heal a woman and child then they have called God a liar, because His Word says otherwise.

We don't know that God will heal somebody because they pray. We can't base the rules that govern our society on the faith of one group of people. I've prayed for things in the past that didn't happen. Plenty of Christians have experienced great personal tragedy, including the death of loved ones, do you think that they didn't pray? Do you think that these people let their loved ones die?

 

[challenger]

Where do your "ethics" come from?

My ethics come from a humanistic view of the world. That is to say, it is the goal of humanity to survive, if humanity is to survive we have to live together without ****ing each others lives up too much, hence people should be free to do whatever they want as long as they don't harm or affect the freedom of others.

If you could do something for me to help your argument...prove the Bible wrong.

I don't need to prove the Bible wrong, its irrelevant to me.

 

[Carl Carlson]

My ethics come from a humanistic view of the world. That is to say, it is the goal of humanity to survive, if humanity is to survive we have to live together without ****ing each others lives up too much, hence people should be free to do whatever they want as long as they don't harm or affect the freedom of others.

I don't need to prove the Bible wrong, its irrelevant to me.

Regardless of whether or not you believe in God or His Word, you will still have to account for the sins you've commited, the wrongs you've done. Since God is a just Judge, he will not allow liars, theives, blasphemers, rapists and murderers in heaven. This includes your secret thought life. Only by Jesus Christ can we be saved. Sure, when you die you can tell God that He's not real, but I don't think that will help.

Your "ethics" actually come from your conscience. Guess who put that there? It's the same One who wrote the book you feel is irrelevant to you. He put the Law in there, which coincidently enough matches your conscience, which bears witness. When you lie or steal do you feel guilty? Why do you think that is?

Jeremiah 31:33
"This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time," declares the LORD . "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people."

Romans 2:15-16S
"since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares. "

Do you love life?
Do you value your life?
Do you love the lives of others?

 

[Carl Carlson]

We don't know that God will heal somebody because they pray. We can't base the rules that govern our society on the faith of one group of people. I've prayed for things in the past that didn't happen. Plenty of Christians have experienced great personal tragedy, including the death of loved ones, do you think that they didn't pray? Do you think that these people let their loved ones die?

Our lives are not ours for the taking. We didn't decide that we would be born. That was God's decision.

Prayer does not bring man's will to heaven, but God's will to earth.

Can you get angry at God, who gave you life? Who also gave you the gift of eternal life? Neither of which anyone has deserved. Instead you choose to be angry and call God a liar?

Tradgedy is a part of life. Ever since man sinned, bad things have happened. Even more reason to turn to God and His mercy. God's will is what's best.

Jeremiah 29:11-13
"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD , "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. 12 Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. 13 You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart."

 

[challenger]

Regardless of whether or not you believe in God or His Word, you will still have to account for the sins you've commited, the wrongs you've done. Since God is a just Judge, he will not allow liars, theives, blasphemers, rapists and murderers in heaven. This includes your secret thought life. Only by Jesus Christ can we be saved.

Whatever.

Sure, when you die you can tell God that He's not real, but I don't think that will help.

To be honest, I was banking on "Boy, I hope you're not the psychopathic megolamaniac that Jack Chick made you out to be".

Your "ethics" actually come from your conscience. Guess who put that there? It's the same One who wrote the book you feel is irrelevant to you. He put the Law in there, which coincidently enough matches your conscience, which bears witness. When you lie or steal do you feel guilty? Why do you think that is?

I think that my conscience is the result of two things:
1) Millions of years of evolution
2) The way I was raised
However, my ethics are those beliefs I have about right and wrong that I can logically justify.

Do you love life?

Of course, its too beautiful not to love

Do you value your life?

I enjoy it too much not to.

Do you love the lives of others?

I value the lives of others, if thats what you mean by love then yes, otherwise, I'm not sure what you're babbling about.

Anyway, this off topic, if you want to discuss the origins of morality then start a thread about it.

 

[challenger]

Our lives are not ours for the taking. We didn't decide that we would be born. That was God's decision.

Prayer does not bring man's will to heaven, but God's will to earth.

Can you get angry at God, who gave you life? Who also gave you the gift of eternal life? Neither of which anyone has deserved. Instead you choose to be angry and call God a liar?

Tradgedy is a part of life. Ever since man sinned, bad things have happened. Even more reason to turn to God and His mercy. God's will is what's best.

Jeremiah 29:11-13
"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD , "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. 12 Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. 13 You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart."

So do you believe that we should avoid performing life saving surgery on people? Be careful, you've already said that who lives and dies is up to God, not us. What should we do, just sit around and pray for everything and hope that your God provides? I'm sorry, but I can't live my life in false hope and I don't see why such a belief should control the law.

 

[Carl Carlson]

I think that my conscience is the result of two things:
1) Millions of years of evolution
2) The way I was raised
However, my ethics are those beliefs I have about right and wrong that I can logically justify.

Of course, its too beautiful not to love

I enjoy it too much not to.

I value the lives of others, if thats what you mean by love then yes, otherwise, I'm not sure what you're babbling about.

Anyway, this off topic, if you want to discuss the origins of morality then start a thread about it.

This is actually in a category entitled Philosophy and Morality. Just seeing where you stand.

So...you evolved a conscience? At what point did that happen? Amino acid? Bird? Fish? Monkey? Your birth?

Tell me your logic on ethics, I would love to hear this.

You admit that life is too beautiful not to love. So you do love your life.

How do you feel about death?

Do you want to die?

 

[Carl Carlson]

So do you believe that we should avoid performing life saving surgery on people? Be careful, you've already said that who lives and dies is up to God, not us. What should we do, just sit around and pray for everything and hope that your God provides? I'm sorry, but I can't live my life in false hope and I don't see why such a belief should control the law.

Who said it was false? My hope is REAL. I'm sorry you don't have a real hope, that's something that you should look into.

God gave doctors the ability and knowledge to sustain the physical health of His children. If you would like to check out the Bible, there's some good stuff in there. I would also be willing to point out things, if you would like.

Man cannot sustain life on his own and we weren't meant to. I did say that life is determined by God. Very true. You will die one day. You are mortal. You have a beginning and an end. God has set both of those dates. We didn't have control of when we were born and we won't have control of when we die, outside of suicide. God has a plan for us, so why would we waste it? God wants us to be in great physical health. Our body is His temple. This also falls in line with not murdering a life inside of our body. Life is precious to God...every life...you'd think we would also feel the same way.

God bless