Abolish Vanity

[Verv]

I think if vanity was destroyed much good would be done. It is the route of almost all waste.

Imagine if as people got richer they didn't feel the need for status symbols... As opposed to people owning four or five cars and giant homes, they would own practical cars and practical homes; the money that is invested in vain things like Ferraris would instead have been invested in simply superior advancements in cars.

Global warming would be less of an issue because people from the start would've been in competition to make the most fuel efficient vehicles for the practical reduction of cost. Luxury car brands would have been defined by the practicality of vehicle... They would have been racing for efficient alternatives to fuel the second that it became clear the damage was being done.

Furthermore, hundreds and thousands of years ago the mentality of our leaders would have been geared away from personal indulgence and towards collective advancement.

I think if we can personally erase vanity and make it more frequent for a person to be inclined towards practicality and modesty it'll be a better world.

Vanity is not one of those things that is clearly immoral as it does not do a real damage to anyone but indirectly I think it is a fundamentally destructive way to live your life that damages everything.

 

[WhiteFaith]

I totally agree. We'd free the world of debt too, and materialism would be gone too. We live in a world which desires all the new gadgets and what not, we should be grateful with what we have and not pressured to keep up with the new ipod for example...

 

[Verv]

Oh yeah -- that is why I think it is a paramount Christian value.

Imagine big businessmen that when they received their millions of dollars simply bought the most practical gadgets and invested the rest in development, and furthermore, having no sense of personal importance and personal grandeur, would give what they do not need to those who are in need.

If we can, as Christians, abolish our vanity and abolish our desire to look or appear so great we could actually be great.

 

[invisible trousers]

And how would we go about doing this without trampling all over the concept of freedom?

 

[The Nihilist]

You're wrong. Vanity, greed, envy, lust, and rage are among those vices that actually improve humanity. They make us stronger, they allow us to overcome. Vanity has actually improved our lives. Without these vices, if we could just be happy where we are and try and do the right thing, humanity probably never would have stopped crawling around in the muck and become civilized. More than that, though, I'm confident the Neanderthals would have bashed our skulls in and taken over the planet millenia ago.

 

[DustyfootPhilosopher]

I am caught be the implication that something so embedded in human nature can be discarded. Vanity is human nature. That means that it cannot be erased from people. Sure living a spiritual life suppresses it but I think it's impossible to on this Earth be without greed lust hate ....Would it be better for man kind if it was erased? In the context of the way in which you think its harmful, I tend to disagree. Classes and different levels of success of individual is apparent even in the Bible. Think about the parable of the talents. Think of Solomon. People have different capacities some with more than others. It's not as simple as the rich being modest and giving back. Of course that's great but it not as simplistic as you make it sound.

 

[Stinker]

I do not believe that vanity is a product of human nature. I believe it is the result of external manipulation upon us by an unseen supernatural force. It is the stoking our self esteem to such a level of high pride that others are caused to either envy or be repulsed.

 

[FaithLikeARock]

You're wrong. Vanity, greed, envy, lust, and rage are among those vices that actually improve humanity. They make us stronger, they allow us to overcome. Vanity has actually improved our lives. Without these vices, if we could just be happy where we are and try and do the right thing, humanity probably never would have stopped crawling around in the muck and become civilized. More than that, though, I'm confident the Neanderthals would have bashed our skulls in and taken over the planet millenia ago.

Yep, pride really improved Germany in the 1920's.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

I guess even the word "improvement" is relative.

 

[The Nihilist]

Yep, pride really improved Germany in the 1920's.

What a plebeian opinion. Try again.

 

[FaithLikeARock]

What a plebeian opinion. Try again.

Not an opinion but a fact. Here's an opinion.

Vanity blocks everything we can do to help fix the problems we have in the world. Healthy pride, belief in oneself, high self esteem, I have no problem with that. But when it extends into "I'm better than everyone else" it because vanity and it becomes destructive. There may be cases where pride, greed and envy were the motivators. But frankly, I see more people destroyed and hated because of it.

 

[tcampen]

Here's a few people who could learn something about the perils of vanity:

 

[The Nihilist]

Not an opinion but a fact. Here's an opinion.

Vanity blocks everything we can do to help fix the problems we have in the world. Healthy pride, belief in oneself, high self esteem, I have no problem with that. But when it extends into "I'm better than everyone else" it because vanity and it becomes destructive. There may be cases where pride, greed and envy were the motivators. But frankly, I see more people destroyed and hated because of it.

Oh, yes. It is destructive. But what is destroyed? That which is old, that which is frail, that which is ruined. Just as lions keep the gazelle population strong by destroying the weak, we keep humanity strong. We who are proud, vain, hubristic, and destructive. We tamed the west, we brought Europe and north Africa to its knees under the Roman banner, we sacked Rome once it became frail. We improve the world, we make it better, more virile, stronger. But what of the poor, sick gazelles who are crushed under our heel? Death would have claimed them soon anyway. The only charge that can be leveled against us is that of expediency.


Ok, done channeling Nietzsche.

 

[FaithLikeARock]

Oh, yes. It is destructive. But what is destroyed? That which is old, that which is frail, that which is ruined. Just as lions keep the gazelle population strong by destroying the weak, we keep humanity strong. We who are proud, vain, hubristic, and destructive. We tamed the west, we brought Europe and north Africa to its knees under the Roman banner, we sacked Rome once it became frail. We improve the world, we make it better, more virile, stronger. But what of the poor, sick gazelles who are crushed under our heel? Death would have claimed them soon anyway. The only charge that can be leveled against us is that of expediency.


Ok, done channeling Nietzsche.

Do explain to me how those things were done through vanity, greed or envy?

They were done through healthy pride maybe. Through a desire to see more world. But I've never seen a prideful person care about fixing the world as long as they're successful. This forum is the perfect example of how pride destroys us and destroys the world around us.

I'm going to assume you're kidding though and call Poe though, because that post was way too "survival of the fittest". Unless that's what that last line meant.

 

[The Nihilist]

Do explain to me how those things were done through vanity, greed or envy?

They were done through healthy pride maybe. Through a desire to see more world. But I've never seen a prideful person care about fixing the world as long as they're successful. This forum is the perfect example of how pride destroys us and destroys the world around us.

I'm going to assume you're kidding though and call Poe though, because that post was way too "survival of the fittest". Unless that's what that last line meant.

No, I am not kidding.
Where did you get the idea that anything I had to say at all related to fixing the world? The will to conquer, destroy, and enslave, this sounds like a healthy pride? Moreover, I've never seen anyone destroyed on this forum.

 

[FaithLikeARock]

No, I am not kidding.
Where did you get the idea that anything I had to say at all related to fixing the world? The will to conquer, destroy, and enslave, this sounds like a healthy pride? Moreover, I've never seen anyone destroyed on this forum.

Let me make sure this is right. You think pride to the point of destroying those weaker than yourself is perfectly okay?

 

[The Nihilist]

Let me make sure this is right. You think pride to the point of destroying those weaker than yourself is perfectly okay?

Yes and no. I don't think it's fine, in the context of a society, for me and my buddies to go rape and murder here in the United States. Clearly, that's not a good idea. Jail sucks.
At the same time, within certain contexts within the society, yes, but these tend to be less grand. Macy's killed Gimble's, and it was ultimately good for the economy.
In the grand scheme, though, morality doesn't come into the picture. The strong flourish on the backs and through the blood of the weak. However unpalatable you or I find this at times, it is utterly necessary.