A witnessing question

[Zugzwang]

I had an appointment today (just finished actually) with some mormons. Rather than attack them, I went the route of trying to discover who Jesus actually was, since He is the cornerstone of Christianity. Everything else is moot, if we can't agree with who Jesus actually is. (I said this b/c they wanted to continue with who Joeseph Smith was, but if we can't agree on who Jesus REALLY was, what's the point ya know?)

*sigh. It didn't go as well as I had hoped, granted I didn't expect them to repent at one sitting, fall to their knees and renounce being Mormon, I'm not a complete fool, but we obviously didn't come to an agreement on who He is.

Which brings me to the question I have, and the reason for this post. I obviously won't be able to witness to Mormons, if I flat out say "I think Mr. Smith was a liar, a deceiver, and a false prophet, and I believe that Jesus always was, always is, and always shall be, then they have no reason to come back and study further with me, but, by NOT stating what I really believe, doesn't that in fact, despite my intentions and feelings, make me a deceiver as well?

I don't feel very good about it, even though my inetentions are sincere, and even though i knew all of this going in. (This isn't my first rodeo ya know), but I don't like the idea of ppl going to hell over ethics either.

any advice?

 

[Dondi]

Did they say that they will re-visit you?

Last time I spoke with visiting Mormons, I didn't argue with them, I gave a straight out Gospel presentation (Romans Road, basically). I think it is important to get them into the concept of sin and it's consequences (here and the hereafter). It is the Holy Spirit's job to convict a person. I asked them if the recognize their need for a Savior. Then I asked if they want to receive Christ as Savior, which they said they already have. Now I know that the terminology can be different between Biblical and Mormon doctrine. But they did seem a bit mystified, like a light shining in their eyes. So I left it with that.

If they are stuck on Joseph Smith, the only thing i can say is that they will not listen to you if you flat out call Mr. Smith a liar and false prophet. You will have to demonstrate that. Show them where his teachings not only contradict the Bible, but also that many of his doctrines contradict the book of Mormon. There is plenty of literature in Christian books stores and Internet sources that can point this out.

God bless you in your efforts to open the eyes of those in error. I pray that God will use you the next time you get a visit.

 

[Zugzwang]

could a mod close this thread please? it's obvious after 5 weeks and only one reply that this is of no intrest, thanks.

 

[j7muniz]

Hey man dont get diccouraged just cuz noone replys here. It just might be possible that no one else knows how to respond to them either, ya know?
i know that there is a good book about how ot minister to mormons. It goes the way of showing all the details of how to talk to them and stuff. you cna get it at any good christain book store i jus cant remember the name fo it. Of course its no guarantee that they will accept anything you say to them. But hey if you encounter them on a consistent basis it might be worth the investment, amen? God bless you my friend.

 

[Zugzwang]

God bless you J7muniz.

I've just added you to my list of real human beings I've met here, thanks.

 

[Epsilon5]

Let me explain the style of witnessing that I intend to use first, then I'll give you a list of resources that can help you.

A quick background: Mormons are trained to treat any people who are organized to oppose Mormonism ("Mormons" are the people of the Mormon Church, whom we should love as we love all people, "Mormonism" is the institution to which they belong, which has misled them--this distinction is important) as "anti-Mormon." You can't come across like that. So, instead of this information sounding like it came from an website, you have to make it seem like you figured it out for yourself.

That barrier that has always been the conversation-stopper for me has been the fact that I have not read the Book of Mormon. That's what I'm going to do first (not sacrificing any time with God for it). It will also give me the ability to legitimately cite the Book of Mormon in discussions. Otherwise it definitely sounds like I got my information from the Internet.

Now I have several friends who are Mormon. I simply tell them that I've read the Book of Mormon. They think, "Yes, he's thinking about converting!" They will likely ask if I have prayed about it, in which case I say that the Bible tells me not to, so I won't. Well then what does the Bible say about it? It says to search the Scriptures and now we're talking about the Bible versus the Book of Mormon. Instead they might ask how it made me feel. Well, kinda hopeless. Why? I don't think I can live up to the Book of Mormon's standards, and then I'm well on my way to explaining the Impossible Gospel (Mormonism requires perfection).

This might not work in your case, where you're dealing with missionaries instead of friends. Then again, reading the Book of Mormon is a good way to establish credibility with Mormons regardless, just don't sacrifice time with God to do it.

Anyway, here are the resources, which will probably be significantly more helpful than my babbling:
http://www.mormoninfo.org/
http://www.carm.org/mormon.htm
http://www.mrm.org/
http://www.evidenceministries.org/mormons.php
http://www.lhvm.org/index.htm
http://www.mormonwiki.org/Main_Page
http://aomin.org/Mormonism.html

All of them are useful, to differing degrees. It does take a bit of digging to find the good stuff.

 

[mayfly]

Usually Mormons will stop visiting you if you show you know what you are talking about. When a well-informed Christian ( or an ex-LDS ) talks to them, they will "wipe off the dust" and move on. They are not looking for truth; they are looking for easy converts.

But you can witness to them. You can create doubts. Deep inside they know a lot of their doctrines don't check out with facts. In time that can make them study.

Tell them about your own relationship with Christ. That is what they don't have. They have rules and never know if they have done enough to please God. They are legalists and unsure of salvation no matter how they define it. And they don't enjoy their "god" as we enjoy Christ.

 

[whatfor]

At least you are willing to talk to them, I wish I had your confidence.

 

[7Daniel]

First off it's awesome to see that you're willing to put some time and effort into this subject, and that you care about these people's Salvation to do something about it. I think that knowing more of the mormon faith and believes will help you a lot with speaking to others about that faith.

For me, when I've talked to people of other faith, to understand it is a huge thing, I meet a Pagan once, and to have an understanding helps a lot. When you do talk to them, always remember not to judge or condemn them, because we'd only do it to ourselves. Romans 2:1-6. Keep with the witnessing!

 

[hopeinGod]

I have witnessed to numerous people caught up in one cult or another. In my part of Tampa, however, there are more Jehovah Witnesses that come to my door than any of the other groups. (Sadly, there has never been one Christian to pay me a visit). Young Mormons can be seen riding bicycles in the city and surrounding areas, but they don't visit my house.

Despite this lack of visitation in my part of town, I have talked to those of the LDS sects, and have found, when speaking to them -- as I do when with any person of a different religious persuasion -- to suggest our talk begin with a prayer to the Lord. I then ask the Holy Spirit to guide, and offer with all my heart thanksgiving for salvation.

Presenting such a confident approach shows, as the Bible states, that you do not live under condemnation, for "If our heart condemn us not, then we have confidence toward God." Displaying that confidence can be a great witness.

Of course, it is good to have an understanding of the cult's history. That's why I've given time to reading and memorizing something of the lives of those who formed the Jehovah Witnesses, as well as their doctrinal errors. For instance, I love to point out to them where, even in their own "bible," the Trinity is expressed.

Dave

 

[xThirst4Godx]

i had the same problem witnessing to a couple of Jehovah's Witnesses. The person (purpose and deity) of Jesus is pivotal in witnessing, and if we can't agree, it is pretty hard. That means that preaching with scripture is not going to work (at first-2 Tim 3.16). What i suggest is instead learning the history of mormonism (pray that God guards ur heart and u arent confused, though). Mormons have made a lot (A LOT) of mistakes regarding North American history, eschatology, and pretty much just general theology. bring these fallacies to light, and he'll see for himself that his faith is based on a mislead man who relied on golden tablets that he couldn't prove exists.

 

[Dennis_Hogg]

As with all who are saved, it is Scripture - not reasoning or convincing that brings us to a knowledge of our Savior. "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God". You don't need to know Mormon history or doctrine. You need to present them with Scripture. After all, they should come to the point of recognizing that their god and their teaching is not the God of the Bible and not the teaching of the Bible.

God has given us very clear passages to test prophets Deut 18 (- I think - I am not next to my Bible to look anything up) tells us that if a prophet predicts anything that does not come true exactly, then the prophet is to be killed and nothing that the prophet said shall be regarded as from God. This is how Joseph Smith must be evaluated.

The book of mormon and all other mormon doctrine must be evaluated based on Gal 1:6-7. If any man or any angel (this includes Moroni and Joseph Smith) preaches anything contrary than that which we have received - let him be acursed.

Mormons will acknowledge that at its core, the basic beleif of mormonism is in this quote "As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become." All mormons are taught this, and it is what they are striving to do - become gods.

Isa 43 says "I am God - besides me there is none else. There is none before me and there shall be none after me. I am God and I am the Savior of the world." (my paraphrase)

You get to choose who was telling the truth - Isaiah or the mormon church. Is your Bible correct? God will hold us responsible to evaluate the truth of revelation on the method he gave us - Gal 1:6-7. Their method of evaluating truth - the good feeling that they get while reading the book of mormon is not the way that God told us to evaluate truth.

As a curious note, the Bible does talk about man becoming gods - exactly as the mormons say. That was exactly what Satan told Eve in the garden of Eden - you can become like God knowing good and evil.

 

[GTW27]

I had an appointment today (just finished actually) with some mormons. Rather than attack them, I went the route of trying to discover who Jesus actually was, since He is the cornerstone of Christianity. Everything else is moot, if we can't agree with who Jesus actually is. (I said this b/c they wanted to continue with who Joeseph Smith was, but if we can't agree on who Jesus REALLY was, what's the point ya know?)

*sigh. It didn't go as well as I had hoped, granted I didn't expect them to repent at one sitting, fall to their knees and renounce being Mormon, I'm not a complete fool, but we obviously didn't come to an agreement on who He is.

Which brings me to the question I have, and the reason for this post. I obviously won't be able to witness to Mormons, if I flat out say "I think Mr. Smith was a liar, a deceiver, and a false prophet, and I believe that Jesus always was, always is, and always shall be, then they have no reason to come back and study further with me, but, by NOT stating what I really believe, doesn't that in fact, despite my intentions and feelings, make me a deceiver as well?

I don't feel very good about it, even though my inetentions are sincere, and even though i knew all of this going in. (This isn't my first rodeo ya know), but I don't like the idea of ppl going to hell over ethics either.

any advice?

Do you have faith? Do you have faith that The Lord will provide everything that you need? When you witness to others, have faith, The Lord will provide you with everything that you need at that very moment. He that is born of God has both The Father and The Son. Apart from Him we can do nothing. He will give you the Words to speak. Is there anything in any book such as Mormon that our Father does not know about? Does not our Father know everything about the people of whom we are witnessing to? I say this to encourage you, to have faith, and to trust what The Lord has promised to those that love Him.
May the Grace and Peace of Jesus Christ rest upon you.

 

[Live4HimAndLoveOthers]

I used to own a copy of the Book of Mormon, and, before I burned it, I read some of it. I really don't see how reading it can help you witness to Mormons, because the Book of Mormon is a work of fantasy.

Years ago, I read that the LDS organization has the largest archaeological organization in the world, yet, despite that, not one single piece of evidence has been found to support the validity of the Book of Mormon. In contrast, tons of evidence have been found by archaeological digs to support the accuracy of the places and peoples mentioned in the Bible.

Years ago, I was trying to witness to a Mormon guy at work. I gave him the book, "Mormonism, Mama and Me," by Thelma 'Granny' Geer, which is her autobiography of how she was raised as a Mormon and later became a Christian. The guy brought back the book the next day and handed it to me, telling me he didn't want anything more to do with that book, and that he didn't want me to talk to him about Jesus anymore, because the night before, he had been lying in bed reading that book, and he saw the face of Satan on the ceiling. He screamed so loud, and started crying out (he was about 20 years old, I think), that his mom came into his bedroom to calm him down. I believe that Satan was trying to scare him so that he would not look into Christianity, and it seemed to work.

Another Mormon that I had been witnessing to at work for months agreed to go to my church if I would go to his church (or maybe I was the one who suggested that...I think it was me, but I don't remember for sure). He said that he didn't see any difference at my church than at his own. However, when I went to his Mormon church, I saw a huge difference. I saw a person who looked like they were demon possessed, in my opinion. When that person saw me, they became terrified, and I think it was because the demons in him saw the angels surrounding me, as well as the Holy Spirit in me. In the service, various people went up to the front to 'testify' that Joseph Smith was God's prophet. One of those people was a young girl, who was dressed very scantily...her stomach was showing (this was before it was popular for teen girls to dress showing their belly), and only her chest was covered. It was shocking to see a young girl of maybe 10 or 11 dressing like that in a church...even in a cult church.

Anyway, after months of trying to witness to that guy, he finally 'agreed to disagree' with me. His last statement to me was that he would end up living on the sun, and I would end up living on the moon. I found that shockingly ironic, since Hell will surely feel like the sun.

 

[Live4HimAndLoveOthers]

The following is from:
http://othello.alma.edu/~07tmhopk/questionsformormons.html

·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]If gods are people who have passed on to godhood, how has the Holy Spirit attained godhood without getting a body?
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]If gods are people who have passed on to godhood, how is it that Jesus Christ was God before he lived a life here on earth or received His physical body?
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]If there are multiple gods, why does God say He is the only one?
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]If Jesus and God the Father are separate gods, why does Jesus claim to be both Jehovah and Elohim?
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Joseph Smith stated that without the ordinances and authority of the priesthood no man can see the face of God and live (Doctrine & Covenants 84:21, 22). He also said that he saw God in 1820 (Joseph Smith 2:17). Joseph Smith, however, never received any priesthood until 1829 (Doctrine & Covenants 13). How did he see God and survive? In which was he in error: his revelation in Doctrine & Covenants 84:21, 22 or his experience in the grove?
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]If the Book of Mormon contains the "flilness of the Gospel," why doesn't it teach that God was once a man?
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]If Jesus was conceived as a reslit of physical relations between God and Mary (Journal of Discourses Vol. 1, p. 50), how was He born of a virgin?
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]If Joseph Smith is really a prophet, why did Christ not return by 1891 as he prophesied (History of the Church, Vol. 2, p. 182)?
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]If the wedding at Cana was Jesus' own wedding to Mary and Martha (Journal of Discourses Vol. 2, p. 210), why was He invited to His own wedding (John 2:1,2)?
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Why does the LDS church deny the existence of Hell when the Book of Mormon clearly teaches it (1 Nephi 14:3, 2 Nephi 9:16; 28:21-23, Mosiah 3:25, Alma 34:35, Heleman 6:28 and 3:25,26)?
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]If the Book of Mormon is true, how come there is no way to reconcile it with real geography?
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Why did Joseph Smith continues preaching against polygamy in October 1843 after his revelation in Jliy 1843 commanding the practice of polygamy (Doctrine & Covenants 132; and History of the Church Vol. 6, p. 46, or Teachings of the Prophet, p. 324)?
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]If the Book of Mormon is true, why do Indians not become white when they become Mormons (2 Nephi 30:6 - any revision before 1981)?
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]How did the Nephites have chariots in 90 BC (Alma 18:9), 1500 years before the wheel appeared on the Western Hemisphere?
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]How is it that the word "church" appeared in the Book of Mormon, supposedly 600 BC (1 Nephi 4:26), centuries before the Church began on the Day of Pentacost?
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]How is it that italicized words from the KJV of the Bible (meaning they were absent in the Hebrew and Greek) are found in the Book of Mormon (compare Mosiah 14 and Isaiah 53 for numerous occurances)?
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]How did the French word adieu get into the Book of Mormon (Jacob 7:27)?
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]If polygamy was allowed for rapid popliation of the earth, why did God give Adam only one wife?
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]If Joseph Smith is a true prophet, why is it that he did not know that Elias is simply the New Testament form of the name Elijah (Doctrines and Covenants 110:12, 13, 1 Kings 17:1, James 5:17)? How did Elijah appear to Smith as two different people in the Kirkland temple?
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]If children have no sins until they're 8 years old, why baptize them at age 8 to cleanse their non-existent sins (Moroni 8:8)?
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]How is it that the Garden of Eden was located in Missouri, when the Pearl of Great Price claims it was around Assyria, with the Euphrates and Hiddekel Rivers running through it (Pearl of Great Price - Moses 3:14, Doctrines and Covenants 116, 117, Genesis 2:8-15)?
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Brigham Young said, "The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy" (Journal of Discourses Vol. 11, p. 269). Why does the Mormon church not practice polygamy? Are you going to enter into godhood without practicing polygamy?
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]When Christ died, did darkness cover the land for three days (3 Nephi 8:19, 23) or three hours (Luke 23:44)?
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]If the Book of Mormon was translated by the gift and power of God, why have there been so many changes (over 3000 not related to punctuation)?
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Why is there absolutely no evidence that the Reformed Egyptian language ever existed?
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Why trust Joseph Smith as a prophet when he claimed that there are men, dressed as Quakers, living on the moon, living to be over 1000 years old (The Young Woman's Journal, Vol. 3, p. 263, 264)?
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]How is it that Mormons pass on the Melchizedek priesthood, if Christ holds it forever, and it is not transferable (Hebrews 7:24)?
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]If Mormonism came as a revelation from God, why are the Mormon Temple Oaths almost identical to the oaths of the Masonic Lodge?
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Why is it that the Nauvoo House did not stand forever (Doctrines and Covenants 124:56-60)?
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Why does Brigham Young claim that some sins must be atoned for with one's own blood, when Jesus' blood cleanses us from all sin (1 John 1:17)?
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Why do Mormons insist that Ezekiel 35:15-22 is about two books, rather than two kingdoms, as is clearly stated in those very verses by God Himself?
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]If Acts 3:20 is about the restoration of Mormonism, why didn't Jesus return in 1830?
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]If Satan was created (Ezekiel 28:13-15, Hebrews 1:5), why do Mormons teach that Jesus and Satan are brothers?
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]If no one receives the Holy Spirit without baptism and the laying on of hands, how did Cornelius receive the Spirit without baptism or the laying on of hands (Acts 10:44-47)?
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]How can Mormons claim that polygamy is good for New Testament Christians when 1 Timothy 3:2 says a bishop should be the husband of one wife?
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Why do Mormons teach that the broad way leads to telestial or terrestial heaven when Christ claimed the broad way leads to destruction (Matthew 7:13-14)?