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Good day, Jack TerrenceGod gives faith to all men. Romans 10 says that God has put the word of faith in every man's heart but that some disobey it.
This is an unknown to me. It could be the way God works. Scripture is unclear.The actual fact is that God predestines people to be saved or remain reprobate depending on their free will choices. It is not that God predestines people's choices. That could happen if God was doing the predestining within the dimensional boundaries of our finite universe. But God exists outside of our 4 dimensional space time reality. This means that God can see the whole panorama of past, present and future choices, and is quite capable of planning a person's future based on his free will choices. This is achieved within God's infinite dimensional reality. He knows beforehand who will embrace Christ and who will reject Him, so, He is able to write the names of those who embrace Christ in the book of life.
This is what enabled God to harden the heart of Pharaoh through his own free will choices. In a sense, Pharaoh hardened his own heart through the choices he made, and God did nothing to alter that. He knew Pharaoh's future, that he will eventually end up drowned in the Red Sea along with his army. Pharaoh could have chosen differently and his future would have been different. There was nothing to stop him choosing one way or the other. But God already knew which way he would choose, so his future was predetermined.
Jesus gives the light of His word to all people. What they do with it is what counts.@Jack Terrence
False statement, For Faith is for Gods Elect Titus 1:1
Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
And by it being a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22 thats like saying God regenerates or gives all men the Spirit,
And Paul stated not all men have Faith 2 Thess 3:2
2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.
So all men havent been given faith
Can you tell me precisely how God has given "the light of His word" to the vast majority of Chinese people who will never hear the name of Jesus Christ, much less see or read a Bible in their lifetime?Jesus gives the light of His word to all people. What they do with it is what counts.
John 1:9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.
You quoted 2 Thess 3:2 that not all men have "faith", faith is not something given to us "so we can believe", it is something given to us so we can "choose" to believe.
Who has saving faith? The one who keeps Jesus's word (which is in part the command to have faith in the cross for forgiveness).
John 14:15-16 "If you love Me, keep My commandments. And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever—
John 14:22-24 Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, "Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?" Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me.
God is a "just" God. How powerful is your God? I have heard stories of people in closed Muslim countries (which are worse than China), where Jesus has visited them in dreams. One man had Jesus turn up in his room. Another had dreams where God sent the entire book of John in dreams. The man wrote it down. When he finally did encounter a Christian missionary he was able to show the book he had recorded.Can you tell me precisely how God has given "the light of His word" to the vast majority of Chinese people who will never hear the name of Jesus Christ, much less see or read a Bible in their lifetime?
I have also heard a lot of similar stories. Neither you nor I can verify them, can we? What we can verify, however, is the level of knowledge that people do have. I can assure you that the vast majority of Chinese people know about the great American god, Santa Claus.God is a "just" God. How powerful is your God? I have heard stories of people in closed Muslim countries (which are worse than China), where Jesus has visited them in dreams. One man had Jesus turn up in his room. Another had dreams where God sent the entire book of John in dreams. The man wrote it down. When he finally did encounter a Christian missionary he was able to show the book he had recorded.
God talking in dreams:
Mat 1:20 But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.
God talking to people directly:
Gen 21:17 And God heard the voice of the lad. Then the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said to her, "What ails you, Hagar? Fear not, for God has heard the voice of the lad where he is.
Well believe the stories, and so justify the God, who cares for and loves His creation.I have also heard a lot of similar stories. Neither you nor I can verify them, can we? What we can verify, however, is the level of knowledge that people do have. I can assure you that the vast majority of Chinese people know about the great American god, Santa Claus.
Romans 10:14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? 15 How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news of good things!”
As for Romans, see:I have also heard a lot of similar stories. Neither you nor I can verify them, can we? What we can verify, however, is the level of knowledge that people do have. I can assure you that the vast majority of Chinese people know about the great American god, Santa Claus.
Romans 10:14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? 15 How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news of good things!”
Faith is only given to Gods elect who enter the world.Jesus gives the light of His word to all people. What they do with it is what counts.
John 1:9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.
You quoted 2 Thess 3:2 that not all men have "faith", faith is not something given to us "so we can believe", it is something given to us so we can "choose" to believe.
Who has saving faith? The one who keeps Jesus's word (which is in part the command to have faith in the cross for forgiveness).
John 14:15-16 "If you love Me, keep My commandments. And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever—
John 14:22-24 Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, "Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?" Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me.
Actually, I prefer to believe the Bible.Well believe the stories, and so justify the God, who cares for and loves His creation.
But you missed reading the following:Actually, I prefer to believe the Bible.
Romans 10:14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? 15 How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news of good things!
That would mean God has an "unwillingness" to save some. But we see His heart was for all men's salvation. You do realize that if you are not preaching this fact, "a willingness within God's heart to save" you are not preaching God's word but man's opinion, or worse.Faith is only given to Gods elect who enter the world.
I agree. God is perfectly just. In Romans 1 the case is clearly put forth as to why God, being just, has condemned the entire world. Romans 3 reiterates the point forcefully that there is none righteous, not even one. Therefore, God is perfectly just to condemn the entire world of humanity even as He destroyed the entire world in the Flood, except for eight people.That would mean God has an "unwillingness" to save some. But we see His heart was for all men's salvation. You do realize that if you are not preaching this fact, "a willingness within God's heart to save" you are not preaching God's word but man's opinion, or worse.
Mat 23:37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!
God has a continual desire to save people, a longing, yet many are unwilling to respond. See how the Early Church wrote about this scripture. Men who were acquainted with the teachings of the church.
Irenaeus (120-202 AD) in his Against Heresies - Book 4 Ch 35-38 shows clearly that it is man's free will choice to choose or reject God, based upon Mathew 23:37.
Chap. XXXVII. — Men Are Possessed of Free Will, and Endowed with the Faculty of Making a Choice. It Is Not True, Therefore, That Some Are by Nature Good, and Others Bad.
1. This expression [of our Lord], “How often would I have gathered thy children together, and thou wouldest not,” (Mat 23:37) set forth the ancient law of human liberty, because God made man a free [agent] from the beginning, possessing his own power, even as he does his own soul, to obey the behests (ad utendum sententia) of God voluntarily, and not by compulsion of God. For there is no coercion with God, but a good will [towards us] is present with Him continually. And therefore does He give good counsel to all. And in man, as well as in angels, He has placed the power of choice (for angels are rational beings), so that those who had yielded obedience might justly possess what is good, given indeed by God, but preserved by themselves. On the other hand, they who have not obeyed shall, with justice, be not found in possession of the good, and shall receive condign punishment: for God did kindly bestow on them what was good; but they themselves did not diligently keep it, nor deem it something precious, but poured contempt upon His super-eminent goodness. Rejecting therefore the good, and as it were spuing it out, they shall all deservedly incur the just judgment of God, which also the Apostle Paul testifies in his Epistle to the Romans, where he says, “But dost thou despise the riches of His goodness, and patience, and long-suffering, being ignorant that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? But according to thy hardness and impenitent heart, thou treasurest to thyself wrath against the day of wrath, and the revelation of the righteous judgment of God.” “But glory and honour,” he says, “to every one that doeth good.” (Rom 2:4, Rom 2:5, Rom 2:7) God therefore has given that which is good, as the apostle tells us in this Epistle, and they who work it shall receive glory and honour, because they have done that which is good when they had it in their power not to do it; but those who do it not shall receive the just judgment of God, because they did not work good when they had it in their power so to do.
That is not what "just" means. Take the following:I agree. God is perfectly just. In Romans 1 the case is clearly put forth as to why God, being just, has condemned the entire world. Romans 3 reiterates the point forcefully that there is none righteous, not even one. Therefore, God is perfectly just to condemn the entire world of humanity even as He destroyed the entire world in the Flood, except for eight people.
I very much doubt, that only 8 people were saved at the time of Noah. 8 people went onto the ark because God wanted a fresh start for the world. But as He always does in every generation, He attempts to save as many as are willing. Just because not everyone went on the ark does not mean all of those souls perished.Therefore, God is perfectly just to condemn the entire world of humanity even as He destroyed the entire world in the Flood, except for eight people.
I agree. Noah was a preacher of righteousness who preached 120 years while the ark was being built. The N.T. Tells us that Noah preached in the spirit of Christ and that those who were drowned are awaiting judgment.I very much doubt, that only 8 people were saved at the time of Noah. 8 people went onto the ark because God wanted a fresh start for the world. But as He always does in every generation, He attempts to save as many as are willing. Just because not everyone went on the ark does not mean all of those souls perished.
That would mean God has an "unwillingness" to save some. But we see His heart was for all men's salvation. You do realize that if you are not preaching this fact, "a willingness within God's heart to save" you are not preaching God's word but man's opinion, or worse.
Mat 23:37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!
God has a continual desire to save people, a longing, yet many are unwilling to respond. See how the Early Church wrote about this scripture. Men who were acquainted with the teachings of the church.
Irenaeus (120-202 AD) in his Against Heresies - Book 4 Ch 35-38 shows clearly that it is man's free will choice to choose or reject God, based upon Mathew 23:37.
Chap. XXXVII. — Men Are Possessed of Free Will, and Endowed with the Faculty of Making a Choice. It Is Not True, Therefore, That Some Are by Nature Good, and Others Bad.
1. This expression [of our Lord], “How often would I have gathered thy children together, and thou wouldest not,” (Mat 23:37) set forth the ancient law of human liberty, because God made man a free [agent] from the beginning, possessing his own power, even as he does his own soul, to obey the behests (ad utendum sententia) of God voluntarily, and not by compulsion of God. For there is no coercion with God, but a good will [towards us] is present with Him continually. And therefore does He give good counsel to all. And in man, as well as in angels, He has placed the power of choice (for angels are rational beings), so that those who had yielded obedience might justly possess what is good, given indeed by God, but preserved by themselves. On the other hand, they who have not obeyed shall, with justice, be not found in possession of the good, and shall receive condign punishment: for God did kindly bestow on them what was good; but they themselves did not diligently keep it, nor deem it something precious, but poured contempt upon His super-eminent goodness. Rejecting therefore the good, and as it were spuing it out, they shall all deservedly incur the just judgment of God, which also the Apostle Paul testifies in his Epistle to the Romans, where he says, “But dost thou despise the riches of His goodness, and patience, and long-suffering, being ignorant that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? But according to thy hardness and impenitent heart, thou treasurest to thyself wrath against the day of wrath, and the revelation of the righteous judgment of God.” “But glory and honour,” he says, “to every one that doeth good.” (Rom 2:4, Rom 2:5, Rom 2:7) God therefore has given that which is good, as the apostle tells us in this Epistle, and they who work it shall receive glory and honour, because they have done that which is good when they had it in their power not to do it; but those who do it not shall receive the just judgment of God, because they did not work good when they had it in their power so to do.
Yes there are some God won't save, the non elect the vessels of wrath He is fitting for destruction. He sends them a strong delusion to believe a lie.That would mean God has an "unwillingness" to save some. But we see His heart was for all men's salvation. You do realize that if you are not preaching this fact, "a willingness within God's heart to save" you are not preaching God's word but man's opinion, or worse.
Mat 23:37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!
God has a continual desire to save people, a longing, yet many are unwilling to respond. See how the Early Church wrote about this scripture. Men who were acquainted with the teachings of the church.
Irenaeus (120-202 AD) in his Against Heresies - Book 4 Ch 35-38 shows clearly that it is man's free will choice to choose or reject God, based upon Mathew 23:37.
Chap. XXXVII. — Men Are Possessed of Free Will, and Endowed with the Faculty of Making a Choice. It Is Not True, Therefore, That Some Are by Nature Good, and Others Bad.
1. This expression [of our Lord], “How often would I have gathered thy children together, and thou wouldest not,” (Mat 23:37) set forth the ancient law of human liberty, because God made man a free [agent] from the beginning, possessing his own power, even as he does his own soul, to obey the behests (ad utendum sententia) of God voluntarily, and not by compulsion of God. For there is no coercion with God, but a good will [towards us] is present with Him continually. And therefore does He give good counsel to all. And in man, as well as in angels, He has placed the power of choice (for angels are rational beings), so that those who had yielded obedience might justly possess what is good, given indeed by God, but preserved by themselves. On the other hand, they who have not obeyed shall, with justice, be not found in possession of the good, and shall receive condign punishment: for God did kindly bestow on them what was good; but they themselves did not diligently keep it, nor deem it something precious, but poured contempt upon His super-eminent goodness. Rejecting therefore the good, and as it were spuing it out, they shall all deservedly incur the just judgment of God, which also the Apostle Paul testifies in his Epistle to the Romans, where he says, “But dost thou despise the riches of His goodness, and patience, and long-suffering, being ignorant that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? But according to thy hardness and impenitent heart, thou treasurest to thyself wrath against the day of wrath, and the revelation of the righteous judgment of God.” “But glory and honour,” he says, “to every one that doeth good.” (Rom 2:4, Rom 2:5, Rom 2:7) God therefore has given that which is good, as the apostle tells us in this Epistle, and they who work it shall receive glory and honour, because they have done that which is good when they had it in their power not to do it; but those who do it not shall receive the just judgment of God, because they did not work good when they had it in their power so to do.
We do not have the slightest evidence that God had any interest in saving anyone from the Flood other than Noah and his immediate family. In the same way, when Abraham dialogued with God concerning the fate of Sodom, it was quite evident that God had no interest in saving anyone in Sodom other than Lot and his immediate family.I very much doubt, that only 8 people were saved at the time of Noah. 8 people went onto the ark because God wanted a fresh start for the world. But as He always does in every generation, He attempts to save as many as are willing. Just because not everyone went on the ark does not mean all of those souls perished.
It has nothing to do with God selecting vessels for wrath. Did you not read God's heart in the matter?Yes there are some God won't save, the non elect the vessels of wrath He is fitting for destruction. He sends them a strong delusion to believe a lie.
Sodom was one city in 100,000, possibly millions. God's wrath was not on the whole world. It was a center for sin that drew sinners. Do you not believe that the gospel is good news to all? As the Church Father testified, it is truly good and merciful counsel that God gives:We do not have the slightest evidence that God had any interest in saving anyone from the Flood other than Noah and his immediate family. In the same way, when Abraham dialogued with God concerning the fate of Sodom, it was quite evident that God had no interest in saving anyone in Sodom other than Lot and his immediate family.
Genesis 6:5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 The Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 The Lord said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them.”
God is holy, righteous and just in all His doings. God will save whom He will save.
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