A Widely Circulated Error About the Greek Word Apantesis, or Apantesin

[Biblewriter]

That is not two comings. Lk 12:40 tells us He comes at AN HOUR, that is A specific time, not many or more than one time but "AN HOUR".

How do you reconcile Christ coming two more times when Scripture says He will come only one more time? If your doctrine causes contradiction, there is a problem with your doctrine, because God is not the Author of confusion and contradiction.

Hebrews 12:26-29 (KJV) Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: For our God is a consuming fire.

Matthew 24:35-37 (KJV) Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

2 Peter 3:10 (KJV) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

The scriptures most absolutely do NOT say that He will only come one more time.

It is true that hey speak of His return in the singular. But that is EXACTLY what the Holy Spirit did in the Old Testament. He NEVER, EVEN ONCE, said that the Messiah wpuld come more than just one time. But He SHOWED that by making mutually exclusive statements about His coming. And He made similar mutually exclusive statements about His return.

 

[Biblewriter]

Luke 36:12? I don't have that in my Bible. I assume you meant Luke 12:36. That is not talking about Jesus coming back after the wedding is over. That is talking about Him coming after the wedding preparations have been completed. So, Matthew 25:10 and Luke 12:36 are talking about the same coming of Christ.

I don't believe you read Luke 12:35-40 carefully enough. Please read it carefully.

Luke 12:35 “Be dressed ready for service and keep your lamps burning, 36 like servants waiting for their master to return from a wedding banquet, so that when he comes and knocks they can immediately open the door for him. 37 It will be good for those servants whose master finds them watching when he comes. Truly I tell you, he will dress himself to serve, will have them recline at the table and will come and wait on them. 38 It will be good for those servants whose master finds them ready, even if he comes in the middle of the night or toward daybreak. 39 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have let his house be broken into. 40 You also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.”

Notice in verse 37 that it talks about "those servants whose master find them watching when He comes". Then what does it say next? It says "Truly I tell you, he will dress himself to serve, will have them recline at the table and will come and wait on them". This shows that the wedding has not yet taken place at that point. Otherwise, what He said there would not make any sense. So, it makes no sense to think that verse 36 is talking about Him returning after the wedding is over.

And then in verse 40 He said "You also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.”". So, you think He will come unexpectedly twice in the future? Really? No. That is not taught anywhere. He will come once in the future and He will be unexpected like a thief in the night.

Is this all you have to support your 2 future comings of Christ theory? If so, I believe it's a very flimsy theory.

"Return from the wedding" does NOT mean coming BEFORE "the wedding."

 

[rwb]

The scriptures most absolutely do NOT say that He will only come one more time.

It is true that hey speak of His return in the singular. But that is EXACTLY what the Holy Spirit did in the Old Testament. He NEVER, EVEN ONCE, said that the Messiah wpuld come more than just one time. But He SHOWED that by making mutually exclusive statements about His coming. And He made similar mutually exclusive statements about His return.

Yes, the Old Testament prophets always spoke of the DAY of the Lord's coming! Why would they prophesy of more than ONE coming since they anticipated all they wrote of Him would come to pass in that day? They would not, which is why Day of the Lord to them would be an age/era, not a single day when the Messiah would finally come. As I've said before, they would have been dumber than a box of rocks to think all they prophesied concerning Him would happen in a single day.

But since the cross, we now look for Him coming again, not as age, but on A DAY, the LAST DAY! Because all that is written concerning Him will finally be finished on that day. Christ said these words from His cross, "it is finished", what was finished on THAT DAY? All the works the Father had given Him to do in the flesh were finished by His cross.

Now Christ reigns over His people from heaven where He is patiently waiting for the work that we must do to also be finished. What work is that? Building the Kingdom of God as we proclaim the Gospel unto all the world by the power of His Gospel and Spirit, in this day of the Lord, or Messianic age/era. And when that work is completed Christ will come again to gather His people, and our reward for doing that which is our duty will be everlasting life with Him on the new earth throughout eternity.

So the works Christ was to do as the God-Man were finished by His cross. But Christ has left His people with works to accomplish also. And just as Christ had the Father working through Him, so too we have the Spirit of God working through us.

John 14:9-12 (KJV) Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

John 14:16-18 (KJV) And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

John 14:26 (KJV) But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 15:26-27 (KJV) But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

John 16:13-15 (KJV) Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Philippians 2:13 (KJV) For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

1 Thessalonians 2:13 (KJV) For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

 

[rwb]

"Return from the wedding" does NOT mean coming BEFORE "the wedding."

When is the wedding? Is not the wedding at the time when Christ meets and claims His bride?

John 3:29 (KJV) He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

Matthew 9:15 (KJV) And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast.

Matthew 22:2-3 (KJV) The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

Now the Bridegroom is taken away from the bride which are those blessed and called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. The parable is confusing because it causes us to confuse the wedding with the marriage supper that always comes after the bride and the Bridegroom have been made one in marriage.

Revelation 19:9 (KJV) And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

Though Christ went away after claiming His bride, He will come again to celebrate the marriage with the supper of the Lamb and those who are called.

 

[DavidPT]

"Return from the wedding" does NOT mean coming BEFORE "the wedding."

How do you propose we reconcile these two parables in question? Both parables involve a wedding. Both parables involve a coming of Christ. Both parables involve people that are supposed to be watching. Both parables involve being blessed if one has been watchful all the way up unto the coming of Christ. Both parables involve people being shut out after the coming has occured, because they didn't remain watchful up unto the 2nd coming.

Based on all of that, how is it reasonable that, in the parable involving the 10 virgins, the five that remained watchful up unto the 2nd coming, they then went in with Him to the marriage: and the door was shut, thus are not shut out before the door is shut, but the ones in the parable in Luke 12:36, though they too remain watchful up unto the 2nd coming, they weren't allowed to go with Him into the marriage as well, but instead, the door was shut at that point, thus they were shut out?

If the door is shut at that point, how is it that these in Luke 12:36 who remain watchful, are then blessed when He comes but weren't blessed when He comes in the parable in Matthew 25, but are locked out instead? What made these in Luke 21:36 blessed after the wedding already took place, but not blessed when it took place? What changed after the wedding that was not true before the wedding? In Matthew 25 the text indicates once the wedding takes place, if one is not at this wedding before the door is shut, there is no more hope for them after that.

Luke 12:36 And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.
37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
38 And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.
39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.
40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

These in verse 39 receive the same fate as the 5 foolish virgins. These in verse 37 and 38, since they are blessed for remaining faithful up unto the 2nd coming, receive the same fate as the 5 foolish virgins since they too are shut out of the wedding, but then somehow, in spite of having been initially shut out of the wedding, now they all of a sudden are blessed. Not per my interpretation, per your interpretation, thus why i initially asked, how do you propose we reconcile these two parables in question?

 

[Biblewriter]

How do you propose we reconcile these two parables in question? Both parables involve a wedding. Both parables involve a coming of Christ. Both parables involve people that are supposed to be watching. Both parables involve being blessed if one has been watchful all the way up unto the coming of Christ. Both parables involve people being shut out after the coming has occured, because they didn't remain watchful up unto the 2nd coming.

Based on all of that, how is it reasonable that, in the parable involving the 10 virgins, the five that remained watchful up unto the 2nd coming, they then went in with Him to the marriage: and the door was shut, thus are not shut out before the door is shut, but the ones in the parable in Luke 12:36, though they too remain watchful up unto the 2nd coming, they weren't allowed to go with Him into the marriage as well, but instead, the door was shut at that point, thus they were shut out?

If the door is shut at that point, how is it that these in Luke 12:36 who remain watchful, are then blessed when He comes but weren't blessed when He comes in the parable in Matthew 25, but are locked out instead? What made these in Luke 21:36 blessed after the wedding already took place, but not blessed when it took place? What changed after the wedding that was not true before the wedding? In Matthew 25 the text indicates once the wedding takes place, if one is not at this wedding before the door is shut, there is no more hope for them after that.

Luke 12:36 And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.
37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
38 And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.
39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.
40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

These in verse 39 receive the same fate as the 5 foolish virgins. These in verse 37 and 38, since they are blessed for remaining faithful up unto the 2nd coming, receive the same fate as the 5 foolish virgins since they too are shut out of the wedding, but then somehow, in spite of having been initially shut out of the wedding, now they all of a sudden are blessed. Not per my interpretation, per your interpretation, thus why i initially asked, how do you propose we reconcile these two parables in question?

The only reason you imagine that there is a contradiction here is because you imagine that the scripures say He will only return one time. You fail to realize that the word "day" is OFTEN used in scripture as a generic term for a period of time whose length is undefined, as in "now is the day of salvation."

The scriptures could not be more clear in explicitly defining various periods of time associated with His return, ranging from "3 days," 30 days, (1290-1260) and 75 days, 1335-1260) through "add year to year," "year by year," and "in summer and winter" to "THE thousand years." (not just "A thousand years, but "THE thousand years."

So your claim that it all happens on a singe day is flatly contrary to a large number of explicitly stated scriptures. And that is the same with the conclusion that He will only return one time.

The scriptures clearly describe two separate gatherings that the Lord will make, in which He will gather two different groups of His own, to two different places, and at two different times. One of these gatherings is found in Matthew 25:1-10, John 14:2-3, 1 Corinthians 15:51-52, 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16 and Revelation 3:10. The other one is found in Isaiah 66:15-20, Jeremiah 16:14-16, Ezekiel 34:11-16 and Ezekiel 20:33-38, and Matthew 24:29-31.

 

[rwb]

The only reason you imagine that there is a contradiction here is because you imagine that the scripures say He will only return one time. You fail to realize that the word "day" is OFTEN used in scripture as a generic term for a period of time whose length is undefined, as in "now is the day of salvation."

The scriptures could not be more clear in explicitly defining various periods of time associated with His return, ranging from "3 days," 30 days, (1290-1260) and 75 days, 1335-1260) through "add year to year," "year by year," and "in summer and winter" to "THE thousand years." (not just "A thousand years, but "THE thousand years."

So your claim that it all happens on a singe day is flatly contrary to a large number of explicitly stated scriptures. And that is the same with the conclusion that He will only return one time.

The scriptures clearly describe two separate gatherings that the Lord will make, in which He will gather two different groups of His own, to two different places, and at two different times. One of these gatherings is found in Matthew 25:1-10, John 14:2-3, 1 Corinthians 15:51-52, 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16 and Revelation 3:10. The other one is found in Isaiah 66:15-20, Jeremiah 16:14-16, Ezekiel 34:11-16 and Ezekiel 20:33-38, and Matthew 24:29-31.

Here are just a few passages your doctrine MUST reconcile with this unbiblical opinion that Christ will come again more than ONE TIME.

Matthew 25:31-33 (KJV) When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

Matthew 25:34 (KJV) Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Matthew 25:41 (KJV) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

John 6:39-40 (KJV) And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 5:28-29 (KJV) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[Biblewriter]

Here are just a few passages your doctrine MUST reconcile with this unbiblical opinion that Christ will come again more than ONE TIME.

Matthew 25:31-33 (KJV) When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

Matthew 25:34 (KJV) Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Matthew 25:41 (KJV) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

John 6:39-40 (KJV) And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 5:28-29 (KJV) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

The doctrine of the pre-trib rapture is in PERFECT agreement with ALL of these scriptures.

 

[rwb]

The doctrine of the pre-trib rapture is in PERFECT agreement with ALL of these scriptures.

Really, then you should be able to biblically prove that! And explain the contradiction that opinion forces into Scripture!

 

[DavidPT]

The only reason you imagine that there is a contradiction here is because you imagine that the scripures say He will only return one time. You fail to realize that the word "day" is OFTEN used in scripture as a generic term for a period of time whose length is undefined, as in "now is the day of salvation."

The scriptures could not be more clear in explicitly defining various periods of time associated with His return, ranging from "3 days," 30 days, (1290-1260) and 75 days, 1335-1260) through "add year to year," "year by year," and "in summer and winter" to "THE thousand years." (not just "A thousand years, but "THE thousand years."

So your claim that it all happens on a singe day is flatly contrary to a large number of explicitly stated scriptures. And that is the same with the conclusion that He will only return one time.

The scriptures clearly describe two separate gatherings that the Lord will make, in which He will gather two different groups of His own, to two different places, and at two different times. One of these gatherings is found in Matthew 25:1-10, John 14:2-3, 1 Corinthians 15:51-52, 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16 and Revelation 3:10. The other one is found in Isaiah 66:15-20, Jeremiah 16:14-16, Ezekiel 34:11-16 and Ezekiel 20:33-38, and Matthew 24:29-31.

How does any of that explain why those in the Luke 12 parable are shut out once the wedding commences, but then are blessed after the wedding has come and gone? If you are going to create a doctrine based on 2 parables, or that your doctrine has to do with these 2 parables, among other things, that means you need to be able to show how this doctrine reconciles these two parables, and not just claim these two parables prove Pretrib, and then not even bother to show how this doctrine reconciles these two parables.


Luke 12:36 And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.
37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
38 And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.
39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.
40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

Matthew 25:5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.


Assuming your interpretation of these 2 parables, the following happens first----And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. Which then results in this---Afterward---saying, Lord, Lord, open to us---then the Lord saying, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

This would obviously mean these meant in Luke 12:36-39, they initially did not watch, thus missed the wedding altogether, thus locked out of the wedding once the door has been shut. Even though they were locked out of the wedding, as were the 5 foolish virgins, the 5 foolish virgins are shut out of the kingdom forever, yet these in Luke 12:36-39 are somehow blessed all of a sudden, not before the wedding, but after the wedding, while these 5 foolish virgins remain unblessed after the wedding. IOW, assuming this scenario, they didn't get a 2nd chance like these in Luke 12:36-39 do. Why not?

 

[Biblewriter]

Really, then you should be able to biblically prove that! And explain the contradiction that opinion forces into Scripture!

I have answered your cavils in a new thread/

 

[Biblewriter]

How does any of that explain why those in the Luke 12 parable are shut out once the wedding commences, but then are blessed after the wedding has come and gone? If you are going to create a doctrine based on 2 parables, or that your doctrine has to do with these 2 parables, among other things, that means you need to be able to show how this doctrine reconciles these two parables, and not just claim these two parables prove Pretrib, and then not even bother to show how this doctrine reconciles these two parables.


Luke 12:36 And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.
37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
38 And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.
39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.
40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

Matthew 25:5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.


Assuming your interpretation of these 2 parables, the following happens first----And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. Which then results in this---Afterward---saying, Lord, Lord, open to us---then the Lord saying, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

This would obviously mean these meant in Luke 12:36-39, they initially did not watch, thus missed the wedding altogether, thus locked out of the wedding once the door has been shut. Even though they were locked out of the wedding, as were the 5 foolish virgins, the 5 foolish virgins are shut out of the kingdom forever, yet these in Luke 12:36-39 are somehow blessed all of a sudden, not before the wedding, but after the wedding, while these 5 foolish virgins remain unblessed after the wedding. IOW, assuming this scenario, they didn't get a 2nd chance like these in Luke 12:36-39 do. Why not?

The ones who are shut out are not ever included in the wedding. Luke 12, which, by the way, is NOT a parable, but an instruction, is about a different time and a different people.

 

[DavidPT]

is about a different time and a different people.

Obviously, if the wedding happens 7 years earlier, per your interpretation, that means these meant in Luke 12 are clearly alive at the time. So, why is it that they miss the wedding 7 years earlier? Why were they not worthy prior to the wedding but are worthy after the wedding? That's what I'm trying to get to the bottom of. Even though I was Pretrib myself, for decades, I was Pretrib because that is what the churches I attended believed and taught. I never bothered to question that doctrine at the time. I just accepted what they said. Unfortunately, I have no clue how they may have factored in Luke 12 and Matthew 25 at the time, though.