A Widely Circulated Error About the Greek Word Apantesis, or Apantesin

[Biblewriter]

One of the most precious promises in the Bible is 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, where we read:

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”

This well known event has come to be commonly called “the rapture.”

Many widely recognized experts claim that the Greek word apantesis, which, in its form apantesin, is translated to meet this passage, does not simply mean to meet, as we commonly use the word today. They claim that this was a technical word referring to a Hellenistic custom in which a formal reception was given to a visiting dignitary. In this custom, the locals went a short distance out of their city to meet a visiting dignitary and escort him back into the city. From this they reason that this passage teaches that the rapture will take place at the same time that Jesus comes in power and glory to judge the wicked. Some have attempted to defend this idea by using carefully selected quotations from ancient Greek literature. But a systematic study of its usage in a large body of ancient Greek literature shows this to be incorrect. Fortunately, such a study is possible using only tools that are readily available to a large number of students, thus making it relatively easy for almost anyone to check the accuracy of the conclusions. For the “Concordance to the Septuagint,” by Hatch and Redpath, lists sixty-eight places where some form of this Greek word is used in the Septuagint. Of these sixty-eight occurances, twenty-five used the exact form used in 1 Thessalonians 4:17, which is apantesin, in both of the two versions of the Septuagint which are easily available to almost anyone, because they are found online at: Septuagint Old Testament Bilingual (Greek / English) - 1 And
Interlinear Greek English Septuagint Old Testament (LXX) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

This study clearly demonstrates that the Greek word apantesin most assuredly does not have the technical meaning alleged for it, but simply means “to meet,” as we commonly use these words.
For, in the Septuagint, only two of the twenty-five places where apantesin was used in both of these two versions of the Septuagnt, could have even possibly had the technical meaning which its root form, apantesis is alleged to always have.

Of the twenty-five places where apantesin was used in the Canonical books in both of the easily accessable versions of the Septuagint, using the English translation by L.C.L. Brenton:

1. Apantesin was used in the following two places to describe meeting someone, not to honor him, but to heap scorn upon his head:

“And David returned to bless his house. And Melchol the daughter of Saul came out to meet (apantesin) David and saluted him, and said, How was the king of Israel glorified to-day, who was to-day uncovered in the eyes of the handmaids of his servants, as one of the dancers wantonly uncovers himself!” (Kings 2 [Samuel 2] 6:20 LXX)

“And, behold, [there is] with thee Semei the son of Gera, a Benjamite of Baurim: and he cursed me with a grievous curse in the day when I went into the camp; and he came down to Jordan to meet (apantesin) me, and I swore to him by the Lord, saying, I will not put thee to death with the sword.” (Kings 3 [Kings 1] 2:8 LXX)

2. Apantesin was used in the following five places to describe a hostile meeting, as for battle:

“And it came to pass in those days that the Philistines gathered themselves together against Israel to war; and Israel went out to meet (apantesin) them and encamped at Abenezer, and the Philistines encamped in Aphec.” (Kings 1 [Samuel 1] 4:1 LXX)

“And when Saul saw David going out to meet (apantesin) the Philistine, he said to Abenner the captain of the host. Whose son is this youth? and Abenner said, As thy soul lives, king, I know not.” (Kings 1 [Samuel 1] 17:55 LXX)

“And the Philistines heard that David was anointed king over all Israel: and all the Philistines went up to seek David; and David heard [it], and went out to meet (apantesin) them.” (Chronicles 1 14:8 LXX)

“It is not for you to fight: understand these things, and see the deliverance of the Lord with you, Juda and Jerusalem: fear not, neither be afraid to go forth to-morrow to meet (apantesin) them; and the Lord shall be with you.” (Chronicles 2 20:17 LXX)

“And Ismael went out to meet (apantesin) them; [and] they went on and wept: and he said to them, Come in to Godolias. And it came to pass, when they had entered into the midst of the city, [that] he slew them [and cast them] into a pit. ” (Jeremiah 41 [or 48]:6-7 LXX) - order of chapters different in different Codexes)

3. Apantesin was used in the following two places to describe meeting to apologize in order to prevent a battle:

“And David said to Abigaia, Blessed [be] the Lord God of Israel, who sent thee this very day to meet (apantesin) me:” (Kings 1 [Samuel 1] 25:32 LXX)

“But surely as the Lord God of Israel lives, who hindered me this day from doing thee harm, if thou hadst not hasted and come to meet (apantesin) me, then I said, There shall [surely] not be left to Nabal till the morning one male.” (Kings 1 [Samuel 1] 25:34 LXX)

4. Apantesin was used in the following place to describe meeting a fleeing king to bring him supplies:

“And David passed on a little way from Ros; and, behold, Siba the servant of Memphibosthe [came] to meet (apantesin) him; and he had a couple of asses laden, and upon them two hundred loaves, and a hundred [bunches of] raisins, and a hundred [cakes of] dates, and bottle of wine.” (Kings 2 [Samuel 2] 16:1 LXX)

5. Apantesin was used in the following seven places to describe messengers meeting people:

“And Samuel rose early and went to meet (apantesin) Israel in the morning, and it was told Saul, saying, Samuel has come to Carmel, and he has raised up help for himself: and he turned his chariot, and came down to Galgala to Saul; and, behold, he was offering up a whole-burnt-offering to the Lord, the chief of the spoils which he brought out of Amalec.” (Kings 1 [Samuel 1] 15:12 LXX)

“And they brought David word concerning the men; and he sent to meet (apantesin) them, for the men were greatly dishonoured: and the king said, Remain in Jericho till your beards have grown, and [then] ye shall return.” (Kings 2 [Samuel 2] 10:5 LXX)

“And there came men to report to David concerning the men: and he sent to meet (apantesin) them, for they were greatly disgraced: and the king said, Dwell in Jericho until your beards have grown, and return.” (Chronicles 1 19:5 LXX)

“and he went out to meet (apantesin) Asa, and all Juda and Benjamin, and said, Hear me, Asa, and all Juda and Benjamin. The Lord [is] with you, while ye are with him; and if ye seek him out, he will be found of you; but if ye forsake him, he will forsake you.” (Chronicles 2 15:2 LXX)
“And there went out to meet (apantesin) him Jeu the prophet the son of Anani, and said to him, King Josaphat, doest thou help a sinner, or act friendly towards one hated of the Lord? Therefore has wrath come upon thee from the Lord.” (Chronicles 2 19:2 LXX)

“And there was there a prophet of the Lord, his name [was] Oded: and he went out to meet (apantesin) the host that were coming to Samaria, and said to them, Behold, the wrath of the Lord God of your fathers [is] upon Juda, and he has delivered them into your hands, and ye have slain them in wrath, and it has reached even to heaven.” (Chronicles 2 28:9 LXX)

“One shall rush, running to meet (apantesin) another runner, and one shall go with tidings to meet another with tidings, to bring tidings to the king of Babylon, that his city is taken.” (Jeremiah 51 [or 28]:31 LXX) - order of chapters different in different Codexes

6. Apantesin was used in the following place to describe a surprise meeting.

“And the men of Baethsamys were reaping the wheat harvest in the valley; and they lifted up their eyes, and saw the ark of the Lord, and rejoiced to meet (apantesin) it.” (Kings 1 [Samuel 1] 6:13 LXX)

7. Apantesin was used in the following five places in the general sense of “to meet,” as we commonly use it.

“And it came to pass when he had finished offering the whole-burnt-offering, that Samuel arrived, and Saul went out to meet (apantesin) him, [and] to bless him.” (Kings 1 [Samuel 1] 13:10 LXX)

“And David comes to the two hundred men who were left behind that they should not follow after David, and he had caused them to remain by the brook of Bosor; and they came forth to meet (apantesin) David, and to meet (apantesin) his people with him: and David drew near to the people, and they asked him how he did.” (Kings 1 [Samuel 1] 30:21 LXX)

“And David came as far as Ros, where he worshipped God: and behold, Chusi the chief friend of David came out to meet (apantesin) him, having rent his garment, and earth [was] upon his head.” (Kings 2 [Samuel 2] 15:32 LXX)

“And Memphibosthe the son of Saul’s son went down to meet (apantesin) the king, and had not dressed his feet, nor pared his nails, nor shaved himself, neither had he washed his garments, from the day that the king departed, until the day when he arrived in peace.” (Kings 2 [Samuel 2] 19:24 LXX)

“And it came to pass when he went into Jerusalem to meet (apantesin) the king, that the king said to him, Why didst thou not go with me, Memphibosthe?” (Kings 2 [Samuel 2] 19:25 LXX)

8. And finally, of the twenty-five places where apantesin was found in the Canonical books in both versions of the Septuagint that are easily available for study, only the following two could realistically be interpreted to have the technical meaning which it is alleged to always have.

“And the king returned, and came as far as Jordan. And the men of Juda came to Galgala on their way to meet (apantesin) the king, to cause the king to pass over Jordan.” (Kings 2 [Samuel 2] 19:15 LXX)

“And Semei the son of Gera, the Benjamite, of Baurim, hasted and went down with the men of Juda to meet (apantesin) king David.” (Kings 2 [Samuel 2] 19:16 LXX)

 

[sandman]

It would be helpful (at least for me) ....If you would give your conclusive thought ....kind of wrap up what your point is...... appreciate it.

 

[Biblewriter]

It would be helpful (at least for me) ....If you would give your conclusive thought ....kind of wrap up what your point is...... appreciate it.

I gave it in the article. Of the 25 places where the Greek word apantestin was used in both of the two easily accessible versions of the Septuagint, Only two of them could even possibly have had the meaning which this word is alleged to ALWAYS mean. So apangesis, or its form apangestin,which is used in 1 Thessalonians 4:17, most assuredly is NOT a technical word referring to a Hellenistic practice of going out to meet a visiting dignitary and escorting him back into the city.

And thus, one of the main arguments against the doctrine of a pre-trib rapture, has been cpnclusively proven to be incorrect.

 

[sandman]

In this custom, the locals went a short distance out of their city to meet a visiting dignitary and escort him back into the city. From this they reason that this passage teaches that the rapture will take place at the same time that Jesus comes in power and glory to judge the wicked.

I have heard of the oriental custom of “meet and return with” associate with apantēsis … However I have never heard it associated with the time that Jesus comes in power and glory to judge the wicked. That is where I was confused…. and at face value, those that promote that seem to be grasping at air….from the context alone….Never mind previous use of the Greek word.

If you have a few moments could you fill me in on their reasoning behind these two events supposedly happening consecutively…..I just do not see how they make that connection.

I have seen them use 2Thes 2:2-4 to attempt the promotion of this… but not this area.

 

[Biblewriter]

I have heard of the oriental custom of “meet and return with” associate with apantēsis … However I have never heard it associated with the time that Jesus comes in power and glory to judge the wicked. That is where I was confused…. and at face value, those that promote that seem to be grasping at air….from the context alone….Never mind previous use of the Greek word.

If you have a few moments could you fill me in on their reasoning behind these two events supposedly happening consecutively…..I just do not see how they make that connection.

I have seen them use 2Thes 2:2-4 to attempt the promotion of this… but not this area.

Only that, as they CLAIM it ONLY means "to formally meet and return with," it means that, as the Lord comes in power and glory to judge the world, he will pick us up on the way down, and then come on down to judge the world,

This is a part of their doctrine that the Lord will only return one time, which they imagine that the scriptures teach.

 

[sandman]

ONky that, as they CLAIM it ONLY means "to formally meet and return with," it means that, as the Lord comes in power and glory to judge the world, he will pick us up on the way down, and then come on down to judge the world,

This is a part of their doctrine that the Lord will only return one time, which they imagine that the scriptures teach.

Thank you…again they are grabbing at air…They would have to toss out many scripture to make that work for them…Right off the bat… Jesus never sets foot on the earth for the rapture …We meet him in the air.

 

[Biblewriter]

Thank you for your helpful comments. As a result of your comments, I am re-writing the introductory material to make the meaning mor clear in the first reading.

 

[rwb]

Only that, as they CLAIM it ONLY means "to formally meet and return with," it means that, as the Lord comes in power and glory to judge the world, he will pick us up on the way down, and then come on down to judge the world,

This is a part of their doctrine that the Lord will only return one time, which they imagine that the scriptures teach.

The rapture, or being bodily caught up to meet the Lord in the air also involves those believers who have physically died.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 (KJV) But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

When, according to Scripture does the Lord call the physically dead from the grave?

John 6:39-40 (KJV) And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44 (KJV) No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:54 (KJV) Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:24 (KJV) Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Since this happens with the voice of the archangel, and the trump of God, when does this trumpet sound? And what happens to the physical body of believers when the trumpet sounds?

1 Corinthians 15:51-52 (KJV) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

What will be no more when the seventh trumpet sounds?

Revelation 10:5-7 (KJV) And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Why are believers caught up to be with the Lord in the air at His ONE and only second coming? The Bible appears to indicate the purpose for being caught up with Christ is so that believers will not have part in the wrath of God that comes down from heaven.

2 Peter 3:10-13 (KJV) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 14:10-11 (KJV) The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

John 3:36 (KJV) He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

After the first earth is burned up and passed away then we who are with the Lord in the air will come down with Him in the heavenly city new Jerusalem that comes down from heaven.

2 Peter 3:13 (KJV) Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-2 (KJV) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Revelation 21:5 (KJV) And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

I know there are varying points of view that teach there will be two or even three more comings of Christ. However, I find only ONE second coming of our Lord, and when He returns in glory and judgment believers will have entered into the eternal world to come, where there will be no more evil or death.

 

[DavidPT]

Only that, as they CLAIM it ONLY means "to formally meet and return with," it means that, as the Lord comes in power and glory to judge the world, he will pick us up on the way down, and then come on down to judge the world,

This is a part of their doctrine that the Lord will only return one time, which they imagine that the scriptures teach.

What is your view of the dead in Christ who rise first? Meaning where do you have them taking up residence prior to them rising? The reason why this might matter, look what the following verse says.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.


To bring them with Him from where? To then take them to where, once the meeting in verse 17 has occurred? Basically then, what is in question, why does He need to bring them with Him to begin with? To do exactly what with them? What is the plan, since there has to be a reason He needs to bring them with Him?

 

[DavidPT]

Thank you…again they are grabbing at air…They would have to toss out many scripture to make that work for them…Right off the bat… Jesus never sets foot on the earth for the rapture …We meet him in the air.

Revelation 19 is meaning after the rapture and that it obviously has Him having set foot on the earth at that time, though. Or maybe you envision an aerial assault, so to speak, taking place in Revelation 19? Christ, His saints, and His angels, they are just hanging around in the sky the entire time. As if Jesus, His saints, and His angels, are just too cowardly to actually set foot on the earth at the time.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Only that, as they CLAIM it ONLY means "to formally meet and return with," it means that, as the Lord comes in power and glory to judge the world, he will pick us up on the way down, and then come on down to judge the world,

This is a part of their doctrine that the Lord will only return one time, which they imagine that the scriptures teach.

No one imagines that the Lord will only return one time. Scripture clearly teaches it.

Do you see anything about Him returning more than once here:

Acts 1:9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight. 10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

He will return in the same manner He left. That's it. There's nothing in scripture anywhere about Him returning yet again after that.

He will only appear a second time, not a third time as some imagine.

Hebrews 9:27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Thank you…again they are grabbing at air…They would have to toss out many scripture to make that work for them…Right off the bat… Jesus never sets foot on the earth for the rapture …We meet him in the air.

It doesn't say where we will go from there, so this it not a strong argument that you're making here. If we're taken to heaven after meeting Him in the air, as I think you believe (correct me if I'm wrong), then can you tell me why we would meet Him in the air instead of just meeting Him in heaven?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

The rapture, or being bodily caught up to meet the Lord in the air also involves those believers who have physically died.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 (KJV) But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

When, according to Scripture does the Lord call the physically dead from the grave?

John 6:39-40 (KJV) And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44 (KJV) No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:54 (KJV) Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:24 (KJV) Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Since this happens with the voice of the archangel, and the trump of God, when does this trumpet sound? And what happens to the physical body of believers when the trumpet sounds?

1 Corinthians 15:51-52 (KJV) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

What will be no more when the seventh trumpet sounds?

Revelation 10:5-7 (KJV) And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Why are believers caught up to be with the Lord in the air at His ONE and only second coming? The Bible appears to indicate the purpose for being caught up with Christ is so that believers will not have part in the wrath of God that comes down from heaven.

2 Peter 3:10-13 (KJV) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 14:10-11 (KJV) The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

John 3:36 (KJV) He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

After the first earth is burned up and passed away then we who are with the Lord in the air will come down with Him in the heavenly city new Jerusalem that comes down from heaven.

2 Peter 3:13 (KJV) Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-2 (KJV) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Revelation 21:5 (KJV) And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

I know there are varying points of view that teach there will be two or even three more comings of Christ. However, I find only ONE second coming of our Lord, and when He returns in glory and judgment believers will have entered into the eternal world to come, where there will be no more evil or death.

Excellent post. As you indicated, scripture teaches that the resurrection of the dead in Christ will occur on the last day. Which is also the day that the judgment will occur (John 12:48). The pre-trib rapture doctrine contradicts those scriptures as well as the rest of the passages that you referenced in your post.

 

[DavidPT]

The rapture, or being bodily caught up to meet the Lord in the air also involves those believers who have physically died.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 (KJV) But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

When, according to Scripture does the Lord call the physically dead from the grave?

John 6:39-40 (KJV) And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44 (KJV) No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:54 (KJV) Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:24 (KJV) Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Since this happens with the voice of the archangel, and the trump of God, when does this trumpet sound? And what happens to the physical body of believers when the trumpet sounds?

1 Corinthians 15:51-52 (KJV) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

What will be no more when the seventh trumpet sounds?

Revelation 10:5-7 (KJV) And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Why are believers caught up to be with the Lord in the air at His ONE and only second coming? The Bible appears to indicate the purpose for being caught up with Christ is so that believers will not have part in the wrath of God that comes down from heaven.

2 Peter 3:10-13 (KJV) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 14:10-11 (KJV) The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

John 3:36 (KJV) He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

After the first earth is burned up and passed away then we who are with the Lord in the air will come down with Him in the heavenly city new Jerusalem that comes down from heaven.

2 Peter 3:13 (KJV) Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-2 (KJV) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Revelation 21:5 (KJV) And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

I know there are varying points of view that teach there will be two or even three more comings of Christ. However, I find only ONE second coming of our Lord, and when He returns in glory and judgment believers will have entered into the eternal world to come, where there will be no more evil or death.

Assuming this scenario, but the fact you neglected to even mention the great white throne judgment, or if you did mention it, I guess I overlooked that fact, where do you have that fitting within this timeline of events?

 

[rwb]

Assuming this scenario, but the fact you neglected to even mention the great white throne judgment, or if you did mention it, I guess I overlooked that fact, where do you have that fitting within this timeline of events?

The only timeline I can find in Scripture seems to indicate everything happens when Christ comes again at the last day. There doesn't appear to be any delay in all that comes to pass on that day, so far as I can tell. But I don't have a problem with that when I remember in the beginning when God created all things in heaven and on earth by speaking, simply by saying "and God said let there be".

 

[Spiritual Jew]

The only timeline I can find in Scripture seems to indicate everything happens when Christ comes again at the last day. There doesn't appear to be any delay in all that comes to pass on that day, so far as I can tell. But I don't have a problem with that when I remember in the beginning when God created all things in heaven and on earth by speaking, simply by saying "and God said let there be".

He's asking when do you see Revelation 20:11-15 happening and I feel certain that you see that happening just after Christ returns, right? As portrayed in Matthew 25:31-46 as well.

 

[Biblewriter]

No one imagines that the Lord will only return one time. Scripture clearly teaches it.

Do you see anything about Him returning more than once here:

Acts 1:9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight. 10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

He will return in the same manner He left. That's it. There's nothing in scripture anywhere about Him returning yet again after that.

He will only appear a second time, not a third time as some imagine.

Hebrews 9:27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

In Matthew 25:10, as "the bridegroom," He goes IN TO "the wedding." In Luke 36:12, as the "Master," He will RETURN FROM "the wedding." THAT is TWO comings, not just ONE.

There is not even ONE scripture that says He will only return one time.

 

[sandman]

It doesn't say where we will go from there, so this it not a strong argument that you're making here. If we're taken to heaven after meeting Him in the air, as I think you believe (correct me if I'm wrong), then can you tell me why we would meet Him in the air instead of just meeting Him in heaven?

The why…. we meet Him in the air? That is not my department…that one belongs to God.

Speculation on the why: Maybe to set it apart from when Christ comes to the earth… the Mt. of Olives.

As for where we go …What I know for sure is …wherever Jesus goes …we go. ....so shall we ever be with the Lord (1Th 4:17b.

From what I have gathered from a few scripture …we will be in heaven for 7 years at the bēma receiving our rewards (2Co 5:10) then when Christ returns to the earth …we tag along.

 

[Servant78]

No one imagines that the Lord will only return one time. Scripture clearly teaches it.

Do you see anything about Him returning more than once here:

Acts 1:9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight. 10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

He will return in the same manner He left. That's it. There's nothing in scripture anywhere about Him returning yet again after that.

He will only appear a second time, not a third time as some imagine.

Hebrews 9:27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

@Biblewriter

The rapture is explained in the story of Ten virgins.

Jesus as the Bridegroom will fetch the wise virgins to the Feast of the Lamb which means He has not returned yet when that happened. And the foolish are left behind and screamed.....Lord Loord.

 

[Biblewriter]

@Biblewriter

The rapture is explained in the story of Ten virgins.

Jesus as the Bridegroom will fetch the wise virgins to the Feast of the Lamb which means He has not returned yet when that happened. And the foolish are left behind and screamed.....Lord Loord.

That is entirely correct. But then, Luke 12:35-36 says, "Let your waist be girded and your lamps burning; and you yourselves be like men who wait for their master, when he will return from the wedding, that when he comes and knocks they may open to him immediately."

One scripture clearly says that, as "the bridegroom," He will come and take us IN TO "the wedding." and the other one says that, as the "Master," He will RETURN FROM "the wedding." That is TWO comings, not just one.