A warning regarding how the Rapture idea can be twisted!

Faulty

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So something like:

My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. (John 17:15 NIV)

Is just as valid then...

Perfectly valid, in its context. My verse deals with the signs and judgments associated with the second coming, while your deals with the then current disposition of 11 men.

Who is Jesus talking about? verse 12
"While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled."

Where do the rest of the believers come in scope? Not until later starting in verse 20.
"I do not ask for these only, (Who are "these only", the remaining disciples discussed in your verse) but also for those who will believe in me through their word, that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me."
 
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Faulty

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So something Jesus said to the disciples or prayed concerning them has no bearing on the rest of us?

Yes.


If so, then we might as well throw away the four gospels then, minus the birth and crucifixion story

Non-sequitur.
 
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DennisTate

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Does a single verse constitute an entire doctrine though?

The Apostle John seems to have been told that it was possible to add to or take away from the canon as it gets passed down into the next generations..... Even one verse..... if it was not added..... could well give us a new doctrine.


Revelation 22:18
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
 
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ByTheSpirit

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Not to mention, there are other warnings in scripture about taking away from what God has said:

Deuteronomy 4:2
Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you.

Deuteronomy 12:32
See that you do all I command you; do not add to it or take away from it.

Proverbs 30:6
Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.
 
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DennisTate

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Well that is if you believe that verse (Rev 22:18) applies to the whole canon of scripture or not...

I do not, I think it's only referring to Revelation

I used to think the same way..... but I am no longer so certain.... a pretty powerful case can be presented that there are some important teachings in the Gospels... that Paul seemed to know nothing about..... that would perhaps fit with those ideas being edited in after Paul's ministry was over!
 
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Faulty

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I used to think the same way..... but I am no longer so certain.... a pretty powerful case can be presented that there are some important teachings in the Gospels... that Paul seemed to know nothing about..... that would perhaps fit with those ideas being edited in after Paul's ministry was over!

Are you familiar with Acts 20:35?

remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’

These are words of Jesus that are not in the gospels, and yet Paul was aware of them, and he was bringing them to the remembrance to the elders in Ephesus, which means gentiles in a foreign land even knew of this teaching by Jesus, which we do not have ourselves, which means they were privy to more of the teachings of Jesus than we are.

Paul isn't the ignorant one concerning some of what Jesus said, we are.
 
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DennisTate

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Are you familiar with Acts 20:35?

remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’

These are words of Jesus that are not in the gospels, and yet Paul was aware of them, and he was bringing them to the remembrance to the elders in Ephesus, which means gentiles in a foreign land even knew of this teaching by Jesus, which we do not have ourselves, which means they were privy to more of the teachings of Jesus than we are.

Paul isn't the ignorant one concerning some of what Jesus said, we are.

Well put Faulty!

Which is exactly why I do feel that it is unusual that Paul writes nothing about The Virgin Birth theory?!

Could it be that the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary/ Myriam…. and told her to go sleep with her fiance… that in a sense she was already married to???!!!

The analogy to the church/ bride having a real relationship with Jesus/ Yeshua the groom… even now… before the Rapture…. is interesting!
 
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SpiritPsalmist

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By evict….. are you referring to a rapture event?

This is just a theory and I may be wrong but after being highly skeptical of the idea of a rapture for most of my life I am now open to the idea that the Rapture could fit in extremely well with the ultimate fulfillment of the Fast of Yom Kippur.

I agree. We really won't know for sure until it happens. Fortunately, since we are saved by grace it does not matter what we believe about the rapture. Not saying these things are not important, just that some would have us think that we are not saved unless we believe what the modern day church teaches about the rapture.
 
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Faulty

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Well put Faulty!

Which is exactly why I do feel that it is unusual that Paul writes nothing about The Virgin Birth theory?!

Could it be that the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary/ Myriam…. and told her to go sleep with her fiance… that in a sense she was already married to???!!!

The analogy to the church/ bride having a real relationship with Jesus/ Yeshua the groom… even now… before the Rapture…. is interesting!

The virgin birth was a necessity to over come the curse God placed on the lineage of Jeconiah, of which Joseph was a descendant, which stated that none of that line would ever again sit on the throne of Israel.

It was required the Jesus came through that line, but had Joseph been the biological father of Jesus, rather than the legal father only, then Jesus would not be eligible for the throne of David He will one day sit upon.

Because of that curse, if Jesus was the biological son of Joseph, He could not have also been the long awaited Messiah.
 
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