A warning regarding how the Rapture idea can be twisted!

[DennisTate]

This is just a theory and I may be wrong but after being highly skeptical of the idea of a rapture for most of my life I am now open to the idea that the Rapture could fit in extremely well with the ultimate fulfillment of the Fast of Yom Kippur.


I could not get my head around this idea until reading the NDE account of Dr. Richard Eby:

"He paused as though the joy of that thought had overwhelmed him for the moment.

"My Father assures me that the time is yet a little while, but very little. Soon he will call those already in paradise to surround me as we descend from this third heaven to the first heaven around the Earth. The souls of all my saints will be instantly clothed in their new resurrection bodies, as will the living saints on Earth who rise to us in the glory cloud! At the sounding trumpet they all receive new bodies and rise to meet us in the air. We return as my body to my throne room with the Father. Now do you understand why I called this place a temporary abiding place? Do you grasp what it will mean to be one with me and the Father in your incorruptible bodies? My book states that I assumed mankind's sin so you "might be made the righteousness of God' in me!"

"I can clearly recall how Jesus' voice paused at this moment. He was savoring an anticipation too intense and private to be revealed. Was he pre-living that moment at which he would enjoy the victory which his Father would give him as the eternal reward for his own long-suffering? His own sting of death would be swallowed up, and he would be the omniscient Head of a completed and compliant body for whom he had shed his blood on a terrible cross. He would reign as KING of the Jews after these days of grace. Then his thoughts returned to me.

"My son, when that time has come, my Father will call to me. The applause of the heavenly hosts will be deafening; they too have been awaiting that day, ever since they announced my birth to the shepherds at Bethlehem so long ago. Scoffers will gaze with fear and wonder as my angelic hosts watch me fulfill my promise to my earthly body of believers at my soon return to Earth." (Dr. Richard Eby)

(near-death.com/forum/nde/000/91.html)

After sending somebody this quotation they sent me this amazing response on how the rapture idea can be twisted around in the wrong way:
...........

 

[DennisTate]

Anonymous reply regarding the Rapture:

Perhaps the "Rapture" occurs exactly as many "fundamentalist" "Christians" believe, the mainstream manner in which
this heresy is taught. You know--Jesus physically appears in person, either before or during a worldwide nuclear war,
and the true believers float upwards, defying gravity, and somehow are so overjoyed at being with Jesus that their
hearts aren't saddened by billions of people suffering through miserable deaths. Perhaps such an outcome occurs in
in another warped timeline/alternate dimension/on another branch of quantum physics--the one where every blade of grass
in the entire world is literally burned up...

Revelation 8:7, apostle John;
7 The first angel sounded his trumpet, and there came hail and fire mixed with blood, and it was hurled down upon the earth.
A third of the earth was burned up, a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up."

and the one where everything living in the oceans is made extinct

...

Revelation 16:3-7, apostle John;
3 The second angel poured out his bowl on the sea, and it turned into blood like that of a dead man, and every living thing in the sea died."

[...and not only made extinct, but blamed for their demise--every jellyfish, mollusk and fish right on down to amoebic life-forms, all of
them blamed for their sin by the angel God left in charge of the waters...]

"5 Then I heard the angel in charge of the waters say:
“You are just in these judgments, you who are and who were, the Holy One, because you have so judged;
6 for they have shed the blood of your saints and prophets, and you have given them blood to drink as they deserve.”

[...Yep, read it literally, without the spirit, and the lobsters shed the blood of Gods saints and prophets...]

7 And I heard the altar respond:
“Yes, Lord God Almighty, true and just are your judgments.”"

(If the literalists without the spirit are correct, the heavenly altar itself declares the saint-killing octopi had to die. Or perhaps it could mean
something entirely different, something consistent with Christ's deeds and gospel, if we choose to read the account using a bit of saintly,
allegorical language--you know, the kind Jesus was known for using...)

John 16:25, Jesus;
“Though I have been speaking figuratively,
a time is coming when I will no longer use this kind of language but will tell you plainly about my Father."

Matthew 13:34-35;
Jesus spoke all these things to the crowd in parables; he did not say anything to them without using a parable.
So was fulfilled what was spoken through the prophet:
“I will open my mouth in parables, I will utter things hidden since the creation of the world.”

Matthew 13:13, Jesus;
This is why I speak to them in parables:“Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand."

Back to John 16, expanded for greater clarity and context...Jesus speaking;

25 “Though I have been speaking figuratively, a time is coming when I will no longer use this kind of language
but will tell you plainly about my Father..."

29 Then Jesus’ disciples said, “Now you are speaking clearly and without figures of speech.
30 Now we can see that you know all things and that you do not even need to have anyone ask you questions.
This makes us believe that you came from God.”

And this...

Luke 8:10;
[Jesus] said, “The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you,
but to others I speak in parables, so that,“‘though seeing, they may not see;though hearing, they may not understand.’"

(Why did I say "literalists without the spirit" just preceding the accounts of Jesus' use of figurative language above? Paul...your turn...

)

1 Corinthians 2:13-14, Paul;
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him,
and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned."

[

i.e., one must read the scriptures using the same spirit of love Jesus personifies to have the proper context for determining whether
something is meant literally, or figuratively. Literalists without the spirit butcher the gospel and make it appear that God is righteously
accusing mollusks of killing the saints and prophets. (Perhaps mollusks are the reincarnated spirits of the saints & prophets killers?) ]

Trust me, Dennis, God is not holding lobsters accountable for killing the saints and prophets. Paul was a good servant.
He used the same allegorical language Jesus used. Peter even said so...

2 Peter 3:15-16;
15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation,
just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him.
16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters.
His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort,
as they do the other Scriptures,
to their own destruction."

Why speak in riddles and allegorical language? We're being tested. Do we have the spirit of love in our hearts, or selfishness and
death wishes for others? How we choose to read the scriptures tells a lot about who we are. As for the literalist Rapture heresy...
Pete, your turn again...

2 Peter 2:1, Peter;
1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you.
They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—
bringing swift destruction on themselves."

Why do I use the term, "Rapture heresy"? Because the way the Rapture is commonly taught denies "the sovereign Lord who
bought them". There's a true "Rapture" (and we'll examine this later), but the way the "Rapture", as commonly taught, it's part of
a heresy that denies Christ. It denies his spirit and the intent of his words. It goes like this: Mankind comes to end of the age time.
If at any time prior to then one has mouthed the words, "I accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior", one is "in". Doesn't matter
if one murders and rapes afterwards. We all do bad things, don't we? But these folks claim God's grace because they said their mantra.

No further responsibility required. Their words can be devoid of meaning and sincerity as long as they're vocalized. That alone is a
perverse heresy. It denies Matthew 25, for one. Or a favorite of mine, Matthew 7:21

...

Matthew 7:21, Jesus;
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven,
but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

[Love him or hate him, but Jesus aimed this one specifically to and directly at Christians, the only ones who call Jesus, "Lord".
That is, unless Jesus has other names in other religions. If that were the case, they'd be liable, too.]

But now, here we are at the "End Times"--time for God to punish the sinners and damn them eternally in a linear time sense.
Anyone who failed to mouth the mantra--doesn't matter how much they followed the Golden Rule, doesn't matter if they couldn't say
it because so-called "Christians" relying solely on grace massacred their people--none of that matters now. Doesn't matter if they're
little children like the ones Jesus was so fond of in the Gospels. Doesn't matter that he's so bursting with love for us that he'd sacrifice
his life for us. Nope, the perfect person has had enough. Jesus has reached his love limit. Heart of gold has turned to heart of stone.

You didn't say the magic words--well, nukes to you and billions of others, and then burn in Hell for all linear eternity. But the "Rapture"--
yes, the "Rapture". Those who mouthed the magic words like "abracadabra" are whisked off the ground and taken up into the upper
atmosphere safely out of harm's way while Jesus and his servant angels totally trash the planet and all still remaining on it.

This heresy completely stands Jesus' gospel upside down and turns him into Satan himself--which was the point to the heresy
to begin with. Isaiah?

Isaiah 5:20-21;
20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil,
who put darkness for light and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.
21 Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes and clever in their own sight."

By twisting allegorical language around until they have Jesus and the Father accusing sea urchins of saint-tricide. That's how Satan
is supposed to win the game--present an image of himself clothed with Jesus' skin and have all his followers praise him as God Himself,
praise him and thank him while he leads humanity astray by committing mass murder in the name of God. Now, if the "Rapture" heresy's
narrative took into account mitigating circumstances, if there was a glimmer of Christ's undying love for us present in this heresy, well
then, perhaps floating off into the air would be acceptable. But under circumstances in which Satan is substituted for Christ, that is simply
and totally unacceptable.

Then, there's another way in which the "Rapture" heresy denies Christ. Whenever a close-minded missionary or believer (and note,
I'm applying this only to the close-minded ones, not everyone) tells someone else the Message their people heard came from the Devil--
whenever that happens, they've denied the Source of that Message, too. If someone accurately relays a message of yours to a third
party, and that third party calls it a pack of lies, they may or may not be calling the messenger a liar, but they surely are calling the
originator of the message a liar. Doesn't matter if the same Source has also spoken to the third party, and the third party accepts
the Message given directly to them as truth, the third party is still calling the Source of the Message relayed through an intermediary
a liar. There's likely even more ways this "fundamentalist", heartless, Rapture heresy denies Christ. But we'll stop here. Point made.

(Anonymous)

 

[DennisTate]

Before getting back to the "Rapture", let's first clean up Revelation 8 and 16 a bit.

Rev. 8:7;
7 The first angel sounded his trumpet, and there came hail and fire mixed with blood, and it was hurled down upon the earth.
A third of the earth was burned up, a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up."

Anyone ever tell you something or do something to you that got you "burned up"? Seeing "red"? Ya think maybe a third of the
world's people are following their religions in a self-righteous manner that denies the spirit of love of their sovereign Lord?

"Trees?" Check out "oaks" and such in all the prophecies. The account of Nebuchadnezzar's dream in Daniel 4:9-22 is perfect for
setting the precedent.

Daniel 4:20-22, Daniel;
20 The tree you saw, which grew large and strong, with its top touching the sky, visible to the whole earth,
21 with beautiful leaves and abundant fruit, providing food for all, giving shelter to the beasts of the field,
and having nesting places in its branches for the birds of the air— 22 you, O king, are that tree!"

So, king Nebuchadnezzar was an allegorical tree. People can be allegorical "trees", according to the Word.

Grass?

Isaiah 40:6-8;
6 A voice says, "Cry out."
And I said, "What shall I cry?"
"All men are like grass,
and all their glory is like the flowers of the field.
7 The grass withers and the flowers fall,
because the breath of the LORD blows on them.
Surely the people are grass.
8 The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God stands forever."
"Surely the people are grass."

The word of our God says that in prophecy, "grass" is allegorical language for "people". Same as "sea" in Rev. 16:

Revelation 17:15;
Then the angel said to me, “The waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages."

The color used to represent Islam is green. Virtually every Muslim will find it uncomfortable to apply figurative language to
much of the harsher sounding prophecies, because as a whole, the Muslim Ummah believes in a Muslim counterpart fulfillment
to what the "Christian" Rapture Cult believes. Shia, in particular, generally have disdain for allegorical interpretations. That's one
reason they reject many of the prophecies found in hadith collections held sacred by the Sunni. Sunni, in general, accept the
prophecies as true, but read them literally, turning Allah into a nasty Person just like most "fundamentalist" Christians. (That's only
a part of where their anger will come from. They'll find other aspects of this process distasteful, but that distaste will be based
on sin, not righteousness. That's written in Islam's prophecies, btw.) Trust me, any solution that upholds the Bible as being valid
will allegorically "burn" most Muslims up. Consequently, worldwide destruction of natural habitat is not a requirement for godly
fulfillment of either Revelation 8 or 16, or for that matter, most other prophecies.

Back to the Rapture, 1 Thessalonians 4, verse 16, and the phrase "the dead in Christ"..

.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, Paul;
16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command,
with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
And so we will be with the Lord forever.

Who are these "dead in Christ"? Let's take a look at Daniel 12.

Daniel 12:2. Gabriel;
2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt."

Many people see these "dead in Christ" as being the same as those in Daniel 12 who "sleep in the dust". That would appear to jive
with literally dead believers rising from their literal graves. But--is there an allegorical interpretation, and if there is, does it necessarily
follow that one or the other is the sole correct version?

Let's begin with a few questions: Is God alive today or did He die permanently awhile ago? Assuming He's still alive, does He listen
to what we say? If so, would He have ever heard the phrase "dead to the world", or do you think this is the first time He's run across
this bit of allegorical language? Or how about "asleep at the wheel"? We all know that allegorically we can be "asleep" or even "dead"
and yet literally be alive, breathing, and awake. We're just pre-occupied! "Asleep" and "dead" in these instances are simply allegorical
terms describing a state of being while we're alive. Remember, God is the Inventor and Master of allegorical language. It's impossible
that God didn't already hear modern day slang before the world itself was created. Now, if the primary purpose of giving us prophecies
is so that people who are alive at the time they're being fulfilled are filled with wonder at their accuracy and return to God, then it's even
more likely many--if not most--of the prophecies contain figures of speech that people today are already familiar with.

(Btw, a Church that uses allegorical language only when it suits them, but uses other allegorical language in a literalist manner that
denies Christ's spirit as it depicts God being cruel and unfair for sensationalist and fear-control purposes--that Church is included
among those Peter condemned in 2 Peter 2.)

Back to Daniel 12:2. Daniel 12:2. Gabriel;
2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt

"Dirt" and "filth" are words commonly used to allegorically describe a lot of what's on TV & the movies these days, as well as a
general decline in morals. We've become more "worldly". We can be alive and breathing, consumed in materialism and the
perversities of our media and perfectly fulfill Daniel 2:12's words, "sleep in the dust of the earth".

Back to 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 and the Rapture, This time we'll look at "clouds":
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, Paul;
16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command,
with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
And so we will be with the Lord forever."

Well, "clouds" connects 1 Thessalonians 4 with Matthew 24:30-31

, Jesus speaking;
30 “At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn.
They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.
31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds,
from one end of the heavens to the other."

"Clouds" also connects with this...

Jude 1:12;
These men are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm—shepherds who feed only themselves.
They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted—twice dead."

1 Thessalonians & Matthew 24 are talking about the "clouds" of heaven, whereas Jude 1 is talking about the "clouds" of hell.
But in both cases, "clouds" is allegorically meant as people, not misty droplets of suspended rain.

"meet the Lord in the air".
Meet the Lord in the atmosphere. Where have I seen the word "atmosphere" before. Oh, yeah. Ambiance, like in a restaurant.
A prevailing mood or emotion. People putting on "airs". "Love is in the air". An effect. A prevalent mood among the "clouds"
of people.

What 1 Thessalonians 4 is saying is that when Christ "returns" through his servants, the Holy Spirit will be on the loose,
gathering the poor and the meek and the righteous together, and excitement and joy will lift their spirits. Nothing at all evil,
corrupt, or heretical about that kind of Rapture. That definition is downright godly.

Apologies to Dr. Richard Eby

(Anonymous)

 

[DennisTate]

Wow!!!!

I thought that this was one of the most encouraging theories that I had ran into in a long time. Wouldn't it be wonderful if a non-literal fulfillment of all those scary prophecies could be worked out over the coming years and decades?

 

[Faulty]

There are occultic expectations of their followers being "raptured" as those chosen by the channeled "master" called Commander Ashtar, who claims to be part of the Ashtar High Command. Spiritists have this expectation. Do a search for Ashtar Command to see for yourself.

Personally, I believe this is preparation for those to be deceived in the coming great deception, where in conjunction with the rapture of the true church, that many temporary raptures, or abductions, will take place to deceive the world around the same time as to the nature of the real rapture event.

You add that to the observation that many churches will still be quite functional the very next Sunday, and many who call themselves Christian will still be around, that the rapture will be explained away as the simple removal of those "unworthy" to remain (which is another occultic expectation as it turns out).

 

[DennisTate]

There are occultic expectations of their followers being "raptured" as those chosen by the channeled "master" called Commander Ashtar, who claims to be part of the Ashtar High Command. Spiritists have this expectation. Do a search for Ashtar Command to see for yourself.

Personally, I believe this is preparation for those to be deceived in the coming great deception, where in conjunction with the rapture of the true church, that many temporary raptures, or abductions, will take place to deceive the world around the same time as to the nature of the real rapture event.

You add that to the observation that many churches will still be quite functional the very next Sunday, and many who call themselves Christian will still be around, that the rapture will be explained away as the simple removal of those "unworthy" to remain (which is another occultic expectation as it turns out).

Good theories Faulty!!!

And do you know what would really serve as a great test for the bride of Messiah?

God doing massive miracles such as raising of the dead and healing of just about everybody in their path by people who sound too "New Age" to be part of the true bride of Messiah?????!!!!!!!

 

[DennisTate]

If you are really interested in this topic you would probably enjoy this other thread over on the Messianic Jewish forum:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7647325/
Yom Kippur/The Rapture connection?!

 

[DennisTate]

There are occultic expectations of their followers being "raptured" as those chosen by the channeled "master" called Commander Ashtar, who claims to be part of the Ashtar High Command. Spiritists have this expectation. Do a search for Ashtar Command to see for yourself.

Personally, I believe this is preparation for those to be deceived in the coming great deception, where in conjunction with the rapture of the true church, that many temporary raptures, or abductions, will take place to deceive the world around the same time as to the nature of the real rapture event.

You add that to the observation that many churches will still be quite functional the very next Sunday, and many who call themselves Christian will still be around, that the rapture will be explained away as the simple removal of those "unworthy" to remain (which is another occultic expectation as it turns out).

Intriguing!!!!!!!!!

Anybody hear any new ideas regarding the rapture?

 

[Faulty]

Intriguing!!!!!!!!!

Anybody hear any new ideas regarding the rapture?

One doesn't have to look too hard to find these ideas expressed by the believers in such things. Such as...

REVERSE RAPTURE: ANGELIC/ET QUARANTINE OF THE DARK ONES - Ashtar Command - Spiritual Community Network

Ashtar Sheran..Jesus Christ And The Rapture...BEAUTIFUL MESSAGE - Ashtar Command - Spiritual Community Network

 

[DennisTate]

One doesn't have to look too hard to find these ideas expressed by the believers in such things. Such as...

REVERSE RAPTURE: ANGELIC/ET QUARANTINE OF THE DARK ONES - Ashtar Command - Spiritual Community Network

Ashtar Sheran..Jesus Christ And The Rapture...BEAUTIFUL MESSAGE - Ashtar Command - Spiritual Community Network

Thank you Faulty..... this article looks interesting too!

WHY THE RAPTURE WILL BE ON YOM KIPPUR

Now a broad outline as I understand it, Yom Kippur is the final day of the 40-day repentance period which began on Elul 1st, 30 days before Rosh Hashanah, and includes the ten days of awe, or another reprieve period in which to repent before Yom Kippur, when the Book of Life is closed by the righteous judge in heaven, and those who have not been found worthy to be in that book have no further appeal to the Lord thereafter. Let us recall that our Lord said that an evil generation which seeks a sign shall have only the “sign of Jonah”, and one of the aspects of Jonah’s call to repentance for Nineveh was a 40-day call to repentance. So, this should intrigue us at the very least, and beckon us to look further. For, should the Jewish nation seek a sign of their coming Messiah, they would certainly stumble upon this scripture after the rapture and do the math themselves. If, as many say, our Lord’s physical appearing upon earth, on the Mount of Olives, occurs on Yom Kippur, then it follows that seven years earlier (introducing the time of Jacob’s trouble), would occur then also on Yom Kippur.

Yom Kippur is a day of fasting, and atonement, so there is usually a rather large and hedonistic repast the day before this entire day of donning hair shirts and denial of the flesh. During the Yom Kippur service, the Ark of the Covenant is open, which contains the Torah; this signifies the gates of heaven which are purported to be open during this period. This should lead us into meditating upon those words of the Lord about Himself being “the door”, or the open gate, which also relates to Rosh Hashanah, in that the gates of heaven are open even for the last ten days of repentance before Yom Kippur. So, there is much fuss made about these open doors made during the time period between Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur. Also we shall look later at that door which was open to the Philadelphian church in Revelation, and that door which John saw as open in heaven for his invitation to “come up hither”.

First, before I forget it... I believe this is the only feast day of the Lord, which calls for a day of fasting. Additional prohibitions for the day of Yom Kippur are engaging in marital relations, weddings,

wearing leather shoes, or washing oneself, in addition to not drinking wine or eating food. Was our Lord referring to this day when He said that in the days of Noah, they were “eating and drinking” and “marrying and giving in marriage” until THE DAY that Noah entered into the ark. Likewise, prior to this year’s Yom Kippur, Jews will be “eating and drinking, and marrying and giving in marriage”, until THE DAY of Yom Kippur. Without getting flakey here... I read somewhere on the world-wide net, that the Ark of the Covenant, had the same ratio of measurements as the dimensions of the ark of Noah, and we know that God Himself closed the door to the ark once Noah was inside, so perhaps there is a picture here of that great ark of heaven being open for us, until the completion of Yom Kippur, “God Himself will close the door”. After the Yom Kippur service, the doors of the ark of the covenant are closed, signifying the closing of the door of heaven; they blow the shofar once, and this is called “The Great Trump”. then that’s all she wrote for those who did not repent.

The last hour of the Yom Kippur service offers one final opportunity for repentance. Does this remind you of our Lord’s words to the Laodecian church “behold I stand at the door and knock”?

 

[DennisTate]

One doesn't have to look too hard to find these ideas expressed by the believers in such things. Such as...

REVERSE RAPTURE: ANGELIC/ET QUARANTINE OF THE DARK ONES - Ashtar Command - Spiritual Community Network

Ashtar Sheran..Jesus Christ And The Rapture...BEAUTIFUL MESSAGE - Ashtar Command - Spiritual Community Network

The NDE of Buck Stevens answers many questions as well.

Near Death Revelations on the Confusion About the Rapture of the Church
Buck Stephens:

......
"Now for those of you who have trouble accepting this “calling away” or
“rapture” of the Church, I want you to know that the Lord gave me revelation
in my encounter with Him regarding this as well. The reason there is so
much confusion and disagreement about this is due to the way time-bound
physical minds like ours view it. We must overlay the physical with the spiritual
so that we can understand.

As we have discussed before, a day is as a 1000 years to the Lord and vice
versa. I told you that I experienced an ever-present now when I was in His
presence. The point is that time means nothing to God, and all the events of
humankind are played out in what is a microcosm or flash moment of eternity
to God. The Tribulation is seven years long, and the Great Tribulation
is three and a half years—or the second half of the seven-year Tribulation.
What is that time to God—nothing!

We must look at the events of this time as God sees them and not as separate
events as we would tend to view them. We must look at it as He does, as
one event, the second coming of Jesus!" (Buck Stevens)

Near Death Revelations on the Confusion About the Rapture of the Church - Buck Stephens - Secrets of a Supernatural World

 

[now faith]

Personally I believe in Paul's teaching to the Thessalonians, he was quoting Daniel.

I do not accept any man's revelation that is beyond God's Word.

Mormonism and Jehovah's Wittness both rely on new doctrine taught by other revelation.

The New Testament was written by Apostles who had living witness of Christ on earth.

 

[Faulty]

Personally I believe in Paul's teaching to the Thessalonians, he was quoting Daniel.

I do not accept any man's revelation that is beyond God's Word.

Mormonism and Jehovah's Wittness both rely on new doctrine taught by other revelation.

The New Testament was written by Apostles who had living witness of Christ on earth.

And that's good. I was just pointing out what other people are currently being deceived into believing concerning the rapture. They already reject the truth, and this is what it is being replaced with in some circles.

 

[DennisTate]

Personally I believe in Paul's teaching to the Thessalonians, he was quoting Daniel.

I do not accept any man's revelation that is beyond God's Word.

Mormonism and Jehovah's Wittness both rely on new doctrine taught by other revelation.

The New Testament was written by Apostles who had living witness of Christ on earth.

Do you think what Dr. George Ritchie reports seeing during his NDE back in 1943 was in line with what the Bible teaches about the state of the dead……. or not?

.near-death.com/ritchie.html

Dr. George Ritchie:

b. His Guided Tour of the Earthbound Realm with Jesus

Then Jesus begins to take Ritchie on a journey through various realms of the afterlife. They fly toward a large city on Earth where they notice a group of assembly-line workers at work. They witnesses the spirit of a woman trying desperately to grab a cigarette from the workers who were oblivious to her presence. This woman had died severely addicted to cigarettes and was now cut off from the one thing she desperately desired most.

Ritchie realizes how the spirits in these realms immediately know the thoughts of other spirits around them. This is the reason they tend to group together with other spirits. It is too threatening to be around others who knew and disagreed with their thoughts.

Jesus leads Ritchie to a house somewhere on Earth where he is shown the spirit of a young man following his living family members around and begging them for forgiveness. But the family members are completely unaware of his presence. Jesus tells Ritchie the young man committed suicide and is "chained to every consequence of his act."

They then traveled to a bar somewhere on Earth which was filled with sailors drinking heavily. Spirits surrounded the sailors as they tried desperately, and in vain, to grasp the shot glasses to get a drink. Other spirits tried to control the sailors' alcoholic behavior. Ritchie learns these are the spirits of people who died still having a severe alcoholic addiction which went beyond the physical. He is bewildered as he observes one of the sailors passing out causing the sailor's protective aura surrounding him to crack open. When it does, it allows a spirit to scramble into the sailor's unconscious body. This scene was repeated over and over.
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c. His Experience of the "Receiving Station"

Jesus then takes Ritchie to another realm and is shown a kind of "receiving station" where spirits would arrive in a deep hypnotic sleep because of a particular religious belief they held to be true. Here there were "angels" trying to arouse them and help them realize, "God is truly a God of the living and that they did not have to lie around sleeping until Gabriel or someone came along blowing on a horn." These are the spirits of people who believe they must sleep in their grave until the second coming of Christ (i.e., soul sleep.)
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d. His Description of the Horrors of Hell

They were still somewhere on the surface of the Earth; but no living person or beings of light could be seen. Before them was a plain jammed with hordes of spirits who are the most miserable and angriest beings he has ever seen. Many were engaged in hand-to-hand combat with no weapons - trying in vain to hurt and kill those who didn't agree with them. A lot of verbal abuse could be heard between them as their thoughts could be heard by everyone around them the moment they are thought. Ritchie is horrified as he wonders what living in such a realm would be like - a place where you cannot hide from who you really are. These spirits were locked into destructive thought-patterns, rage and uncontrollable lust. Some were trying in vain to get sexual gratification from each other. The wailing coming from the hordes of unsatisfied spirits was tremendous. Other spirits were in despair saying things such as, "I always knew!" and "Didn't I warn you!" Ritchie realizes this place is truly hell. Their obsessive thoughts and emotions extended beyond the physical realm and into the spiritual realm where they cannot be satisfied. Yet there was nothing preventing any of the poor spirits in these realms from leaving. There was no condemnation coming from Jesus either - only compassion for these miserable spirits. Ritchie realizes Jesus hadn't abandoned any of them here. Instead they fled from the light to escape from having the darkness of their heart from being revealed.
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e. His Observations of the Temple of Wisdom

They then travel to a completely different realm where some kind of enormous university is located. Spirits dressed as monks busily and happily engaged in some form of artistic behavior or research. An enormous library exists here where all the important books of the universe are assembled. Ritchie asks Jesus if this is heaven. These are the spirits of people who grew beyond selfish desires while on Earth; but, like the spirits in hell, these spirits cannot see Jesus either.

 

[now faith]

And that's good. I was just pointing out what other people are currently being deceived into believing concerning the rapture. They already reject the truth, and this is what it is being replaced with in some circles.

Amen,I have a friend that is ordained into some false revelation teaching.
I googled the name and found it was concocted in the 40s based on nothing but some guy and his revelation.

It is a mix of some Bible with a emphasizing on old earth ,Adam and Eve were transplanted
From another planet,and a great deal on everything on earth being held captive by Lucifer and his hidden agenda.

But at first to here him speak he says glory to God our father.

I have forgotten the cult name and I am distancing the friendship.

I have witnessed for almost a year and made no progress.

He also believes Jesus was Michael and Lucifer made him go to the cross.

Sorry to bend your ear but do you have any idea what this cult is?

He has called himself a watchman and tells me he works counseling on the phone.

Your opinion is always respected,thanks.

 

[AGTG]

I do not believe the Bible teaches about a pre-trib rapture. I think we will see the judgments fall like Israel did in Egypt, but there will be a "distinction" between peoples just like there was then.

In other words, Jesus isn't coming to vacate, He's coming to evict!

 

[DennisTate]

I do not believe the Bible teaches about a pre-trib rapture. I think we will see the judgments fall like Israel did in Egypt, but there will be a "distinction" between peoples just like there was then.

In other words, Jesus isn't coming to vacate, He's coming to evict!

By evict….. are you referring to a rapture event?

This is just a theory and I may be wrong but after being highly skeptical of the idea of a rapture for most of my life I am now open to the idea that the Rapture could fit in extremely well with the ultimate fulfillment of the Fast of Yom Kippur.


I could not get my head around this idea until reading the NDE account of Dr. Richard Eby:

He paused as though the joy of that thought had overwhelmed him for the moment.

"My Father assures me that the time is yet a little while, but very little. Soon he will call those already in paradise to surround me as we descend from this third heaven to the first heaven around the Earth. The souls of all my saints will be instantly clothed in their new resurrection bodies, as will the living saints on Earth who rise to us in the glory cloud! At the sounding trumpet they all receive new bodies and rise to meet us in the air. We return as my body to my throne room with the Father. Now do you understand why I called this place a temporary abiding place? Do you grasp what it will mean to be one with me and the Father in your incorruptible bodies? My book states that I assumed mankind's sin so you "might be made the righteousness of God' in me!"

I can clearly recall how Jesus' voice paused at this moment. He was savoring an anticipation too intense and private to be revealed. Was he pre-living that moment at which he would enjoy the victory which his Father would give him as the eternal reward for his own long-suffering? His own sting of death would be swallowed up, and he would be the omniscient Head of a completed and compliant body for whom he had shed his blood on a terrible cross. He would reign as KING of the Jews after these days of grace. Then his thoughts returned to me.

"My son, when that time has come, my Father will call to me. The applause of the heavenly hosts will be deafening; they too have been awaiting that day, ever since they announced my birth to the shepherds at Bethlehem so long ago. Scoffers will gaze with fear and wonder as my angelic hosts watch me fulfill my promise to my earthly body of believers at my soon return to Earth.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

I do not believe the Bible teaches about a pre-trib rapture. I think we will see the judgments fall like Israel did in Egypt, but there will be a "distinction" between peoples just like there was then.

In other words, Jesus isn't coming to vacate, He's coming to evict!

Loud and resounding AMEN!

 

[Faulty]

I do not believe the Bible teaches about a pre-trib rapture. I think we will see the judgments fall like Israel did in Egypt, but there will be a "distinction" between peoples just like there was then.

In other words, Jesus isn't coming to vacate, He's coming to evict!

I am curious what you do with this verse when Jesus is referring to the signs and things going on in the Earth prior to His next coming. He says to pray to be accounted worthy to escape ALL those things and instead stand before Him.

Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
Luke 21:36

And yes, that verse could also fit within a pre-wrath rapture scenario, but not a no-rapture scenario.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Does a single verse constitute an entire doctrine though?