A warning in the last days...

[k4c]

People say the Sabbath is a component of the old covenant and is done away with.

Did you know that honoring your mother and father was also a component of the old covenant along with not murdering, not committing adultery, not worshiping other Gods, remembering to keep the Sabbath holy, not stealing and so on.

This is all so very, very simple. God wants us to remember the Sabbath day by taking the day off from our normal, everyday work in order to make the day special.

By saying the Ten Commandments are done away with you trample over the grace of God. You say you have no need for God's grace because you have no need for God's Law.

When asked if adultery, dishonoring your parents, stealing, using God's name in vain, worshiping other gods and so on is a sin you stumble and trip over your own belief system and have no answers.

You heal the sick and cast out demons in the name of Jesus but you are those who practice lawlessness and are not known by Jesus.

There are those who turn away the sick and hungry because of their ritualistic keeping of the Sabbath, which is just as much a sin as those who say the day is not sacred.

The faith of Jesus magnified and restored honor to the Law and taught us how to keep the commandments in light of love. These are the two foundational aspects of the new covenant, keeping the commandments of God and having the faith of Jesus.

God will one day rid the earth of sin and sinners, those who violate God's law and profane His holy things: these people will put no difference between the holy and profane, neither will they show difference between the unclean and the clean, they will hide their eyes from God's Sabbath and He will be profaned among them. They will fullfill the prophecy of Isaiah who said, "People will worship God with their lips but their heart will be far from Him". This was said in light of changing the Ten Commandments and replacing them with the commandments of men.

In the last days the love of many will grow cold because the foundation of love (God's Law) will be snuffed out of the land by people who are lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!

Oh yes they will have a form of godliness but they will deny that which teaches godiness, God's Law. From them God says, turn away.

 

[StormyOne]

Paul's letter to the Galatians, and to adventists who think like the Galatians:

Galatians 3:1 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? 4 Have you suffered so much for nothing—if it really was for nothing? 5 Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?
6 Consider Abraham: "He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." 7 Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham. 8 The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: "All nations will be blessed through you." 9 So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

10 All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." 11 Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith." 12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them." 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree." 14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

From The Message paraphrase because of clarity (emphasis mine):
Galatians 3:21-22 If such is the case, is the law, then, an anti-promise, a negation of God's will for us? Not at all. Its purpose was to make obvious to everyone that we are, in ourselves, out of right relationship with God, and therefore to show us the futility of devising some religious system for getting by our own efforts what we can only get by waiting in faith for God to complete his promise. For if any kind of rule-keeping had power to create life in us, we would certainly have gotten it by this time.

 

[k4c]

Paul's letter to the Galatians, and to adventists who think like the Galatians:

Galatians 3:1 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? 4 Have you suffered so much for nothing—if it really was for nothing? 5 Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?
6 Consider Abraham: "He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." 7 Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham. 8 The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: "All nations will be blessed through you." 9 So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

10 All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." 11 Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith." 12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them." 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree." 14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

From The Message paraphrase because of clarity (emphasis mine):
Galatians 3:21-22 If such is the case, is the law, then, an anti-promise, a negation of God's will for us? Not at all. Its purpose was to make obvious to everyone that we are, in ourselves, out of right relationship with God, and therefore to show us the futility of devising some religious system for getting by our own efforts what we can only get by waiting in faith for God to complete his promise. For if any kind of rule-keeping had power to create life in us, we would certainly have gotten it by this time.

You are still missing the point...

The issue in Galatians was keeping the Law in order to be justifed. We all know the Law justifies no one because justification has to do with a past wrong made right. Because you have broken God's Law you are under the curse you can't start keeping the Law now thinking that some how God will now overlook your past sin and remove the curse. This is what the verses are talking about. Justification comes from the blood of Christ, He removes the curse, but once you have been justified that does not mean you can now continue breaking God's Law. I don't know why you guys can't see this. It's so plain and clear.

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "You shall not covet.''

Romans 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not!

Romans 6:14-15 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!

 

[StormyOne]

I'm missing the point? lol alrighty then....

 

[Joe67]

You are still missing the point...

The issue in Galatians was keeping the Law in order to be justifed. We all know the Law justifies no one because justification has to do with a past wrong made right. Because you have broken God's Law you are under the curse you can't start keeping the Law now thinking that some how God will now overlook your past sin and remove the curse. This is what the verses are talking about. Justification comes from the blood of Christ, He removes the curse, but once you have been justified that does not mean you can now continue breaking God's Law. I don't know why you guys can't see this. It's so plain and clear.

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "You shall not covet.''

Romans 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not!

Romans 6:14-15 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!

k4c

The issue in Galatians was keeping the Law in order to be justifed. We all know the Law justifies no one because justification has to do with a past wrong made right....

Justification, through blood, for a past wrong is true. This is the sure mercies of God, promised unto us through his communication to David. See Romans 4:6-8.

There is another phase of justification through water/spirit/voice. This is the promise of God unto us in his communication to Abram/Abraham and Sarah. This is a crediting, an accounting. Obedience in this phase of justification is the whole burnt offering of Jesus Christ, the Lamb slain, as it were, from the foundation of the world, standing in the center of the throne of God and in the center of the 4 beasts and the 24 elders sitting on seats around the throne.

Joe

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Consider the following two statements:

STATEMENT #1. We all know the Law justifies no one.

STATEMENT #2. God will one day rid the earth of sin and sinners, those who violate God's law and profane His holy things: these people will put no difference between the holy and profane, neither will they show difference between the unclean and the clean, they will hide their eyes from God's Sabbath and He will be profaned among them . . . From them God says, turn away.
​

I can't find any way to reconcile these 2 statements. Can someone help me with this?

BFA

 

[VictorC]

I would be most grateful if someone -- ANYONE -- was able to reconcile the following two statements.

STATEMENT #1. We all know the Law justifies no one.

STATEMENT #2. God will one day rid the earth of sin and sinners, those who violate God's law and profane His holy things: these people will put no difference between the holy and profane, neither will they show difference between the unclean and the clean, they will hide their eyes from God's Sabbath and He will be profaned among them . . . From them God says, turn away.
​

I can't find any way to reconcile these 2 statements. Can someone help me with this?

BFA

No help for poor BFA today.
There is no means to reconcile these two points you observed; they are mutually contradictory with the inescapable conclusion that salvation is a myth and everyone is going to be rejected by God.

k4c's latest diatribe is inspired by his latest reply to me on another thread. His conclusions are impossible to reconcile with his own claim of performance in light of God's conclusion that there is no one righteous, no, not a single one.

 

[Kira Light]

Consider the following two statements:

STATEMENT #1. We all know the Law justifies no one.

STATEMENT #2. God will one day rid the earth of sin and sinners, those who violate God's law and profane His holy things: these people will put no difference between the holy and profane, neither will they show difference between the unclean and the clean, they will hide their eyes from God's Sabbath and He will be profaned among them . . . From them God says, turn away.
​

I can't find any way to reconcile these 2 statements. Can someone help me with this?

BFA

This goes along with the old SDA belief that says, "You don't have to keep the law to be saved, but anyone who is saved WILL KEEP THE DANG LAW!!!!!11 OR ELSE!!!!!!!"

 

[Sophia7]

Justification comes from the blood of Christ, He removes the curse, but once you have been justified that does not mean you can now continue breaking God's Law. I don't know why you guys can't see this. It's so plain and clear.

It is so plain and clear that your view hinges justification on obedience to the law, which is exactly what Paul warned against in Galatians 5. I don't know why you can't see that.

 

[k4c]

It is so plain and clear that your view hinges justification on obedience to the law, which is exactly what Paul warned against in Galatians 5. I don't know why you can't see that.

No I don't...

Justification is being made right from a past wrong. The moment you receive Jesus you are cleansed from all your past, you are justified. Righteousness is a byproduct of justification. If we continue breaking the Law once we have been justifed we will contiune to need to come to the cross to be cleansed. Justification does not come from keeping the Law and neither does righteousness. Justification comes from the cleasing power of Jesus' blood. We become unjustifed when we continue to break the Law, which produces that byproduct of unrighteousness. When we confess our sin i.e. breaking the Law, God is faithful and just to forgive us an cleans us of all unrighteousness.

Let me tell you a situation I was in that paints a perfect picture. I was a dectective for many years. Part of my duties was to do background checks on people for employment. This one girl came in. She was about 23 years old. She was graduating from massage school and needed to get her background check to submit in an application process. As we were waiting for her information to come in she started telling how she has been trying to get a job for a long time with no luck. She said she would apply all over the place but no one would hire her. Well, her backgrond check came in and I saw that she had three felonies on her record from when she was 18 years old. I explained to her that that was probably why no one was hiring her. I called the State BCI, which is where all this information is kept, to find out more detail as to what these charges consisted of. I found out that they involved shoplifting from several stores. But I also found out that the judge, during the trial, gave the girl a filing for a year as a sentence. This means that if she didn't get in any trouble for one year the charges would be taken off her record and it would be just like she was never arrested. In other words, these charges should have been taken our her record when she hit 19 years old but it was never done. The guy at BCI corrected the mistake and erased all her charges from her record. When I told the girl this she was so happy. I told her that she could now fill out appications and put that she was never convicted of a crime. She now had a clean record but just because she has a clean record does not mean she can go out a steal again. Before her record was clean she was under the curse of the law. The law was holding her back because of her past crimes but once her record was cleansed she was no longer under the law but not in such a way the she could now go out and break the law again.

Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!

 

[VictorC]

It is so plain and clear that your view hinges justification on obedience to the law, which is exactly what Paul warned against in Galatians 5. I don't know why you can't see that.

No I don't...

We become unjustified when we continue to break the Law.

Yes, you do - and I don't know why you can't see that.

 

[Joe67]

No I don't...

Justification is being made right from a past wrong. The moment you receive Jesus you are cleansed from all your past, you are justified. Righteousness is a byproduct of justification. If we continue breaking the Law once we have been justifed we will contiune to need to come to the cross to be cleansed. Justification does not come from keeping the Law and neither does righteousness. Justification comes from the cleasing power of Jesus' blood. We become unjustifed when we continue to break the Law, which produces that byproduct of unrighteousness. When we confess our sin i.e. breaking the Law, God is faithful and just to forgive us an cleans us of all unrighteousness.

Let me tell you a situation I was in that paints a perfect picture. I was a dectective for many years. Part of my duties was to do background checks on people for employment. This one girl came in. She was about 23 years old. She was graduating from massage school and needed to get her background check to submit in an application process. As we were waiting for her information to come in she started telling how she has been trying to get a job for a long time with no luck. She said she would apply all over the place but no one would hire her. Well, her backgrond check came in and I saw that she had three felonies on her record from when she was 18 years old. I explained to her that that was probably why no one was hiring her. I called the State BCI, which is where all this information is kept, to find out more detail as to what these charges consisted of. I found out that they involved shoplifting from several stores. But I also found out that the judge, during the trial, gave the girl a filing for a year as a sentence. This means that if she didn't get in any trouble for one year the charges would be taken off her record and it would be just like she was never arrested. In other words, these charges should have been taken our her record when she hit 19 years old but it was never done. The guy at BCI corrected the mistake and erased all her charges from her record. When I told the girl this she was so happy. I told her that she could now fill out appications and put that she was never convicted of a crime. She now had a clean record but just because she has a clean record does not mean she can go out a steal again. Before her record was clean she was under the curse of the law. The law was holding her back because of her past crimes but once her record was cleansed she was no longer under the law but not in such a way the she could now go out and break the law again.

Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!

k4c,

Here is justification from sin.

Rom 4:24-5:1
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: KJV

The following is justification unto the grace and ministry through the Spirit.

Rom 5:2-5
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. KJV

Joe

 

[Laodicean]

When asked if adultery, dishonoring your parents, stealing, using God's name in vain, worshiping other gods and so on is a sin you stumble and trip over your own belief system and have no answers.

Good points, k4c, but probably wasted here, for the most part. I have yet to hear the opposers of your views answer the above.

Come on, folks, you who disagree with k4c, I challenge you to answer him.

Is it okay to commit adultery? Yes or no?

Is it okay to dishonor your parents? Yes or no?

Is it okay to lie? To steal? To kill? To covet? Yes or no?

Is it okay to worship other gods? Yes or no?

Okay to take God's Name in vain? Yes or no?

I'm betting you would say it is not okay to do any of the above. But when that one commandment, also written with the finger of God, is brought up, the one that says to remember creation and the Creator, suddenly, there is resistance, resentment, and outright rebellion. There is a call to throw out all the other commandments in order to get rid of that one offending commandment.

So what I want to know is: Why the silence when k4c asks these specific questions?

 

[Laodicean]

Consider the following two statements:

STATEMENT #1. We all know the Law justifies no one.

​

STATEMENT #2. God will one day rid the earth of sin and sinners, those who violate God's law and profane His holy things: these people will put no difference between the holy and profane, neither will they show difference between the unclean and the clean, they will hide their eyes from God's Sabbath and He will be profaned among them . . . From them God says, turn away.
​

I can't find any way to reconcile these 2 statements. Can someone help me with this?

BFA

We are not justified by keeping the law. But once justified, we are not free to break the law. Especially when power has been provided to keep the law.

 

[Laodicean]

This goes along with the old SDA belief that says, "You don't have to keep the law to be saved, but anyone who is saved WILL KEEP THE DANG LAW!!!!!11 OR ELSE!!!!!!!"

This said in the same vein as "God will burn up people for not loving Him." Emphasis in all the wrong places.

I don't know how long k4c will continue to strive with posters on this forum, but it will be a sad day when he gives up and moves on. Today, while you hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

 

[Laodicean]

It is so plain and clear that your view hinges justification on obedience to the law, which is exactly what Paul warned against in Galatians 5. I don't know why you can't see that.

Not fair, Sophia. k4c plainly stated that we are not justified by the law. I don't know why you refuse to listen to him.

 

[wannie]

I believe k4c is correct on all points.

Jesus said, "Be holy, as I am holy", but many "Christians" think they can do anything and get away with it.

 

[Sophia7]

Not fair, Sophia. k4c plainly stated that we are not justified by the law. I don't know why you refuse to listen to him.

Because he also said that we become unjustified by breaking the law. That would make justification contingent on obedience to the law, and that is contrary to Galatians 5.

 

[k4c]

Because he also said that we become unjustified by breaking the law. That would make justification contingent on obedience to the law, and that is contrary to Galatians 5.

Justification is being made right from a past wrong. Becoming unjustified is something that happens when a person who was once justified breaks God's Law again. The Law never justifies anyone. When we come to Christ for the first time He justifies us through His shed blood. If we sin again we have to come to Him again to be cleansed again. At no point does the Law have the power to make a past wrong right only the blood of Christ has that power. To say that justification is contingent on keeping the Law would be like saying we are made right from a past wrong when we keep the Law, which is false.

 

[k4c]

I believe k4c is correct on all points.

Jesus said, "Be holy, as I am holy", but many "Christians" think they can do anything and get away with it.

Thank you and Amen!