A View On Homosexuality...

[Volos]

Originally posted by : PatrickM

Well, regardless of where the author is, his facts are still here. Attacking the messenger is not an answer. Do you have any answers?

The original post must have been correct, as no one here has even attempted to debate the merits of it.

Well first off the OP he did not post facts, he posted opinions. It is impossible to actually debate opinions in that they are like esthetics. I like the music of a particular performer and you do not. After telling me that artist X is without talent and that you have no interest in listening to artist X what really is there to debate about.



The OP thinks the bible is a meaningful book, I think it is a poorly written collection of myths. The OP thinks that his interpretation of the bible has some sort of moral meaning, I think otherwise. These are opinions, not facts.



Just because no one has trashed the OP’s opinions means nothing about the validity of the OP’s opinions or the “truth” of them.

 

[Matt Never Existed]

Sweetkitty, You have some major problems in your beliefs and whatnot. No offense, but is it not possible for You to be decieved? Whats would be the best way to destroy Christianity? From the out side? Nope, I believe Satan tried that with the romans and the whole 'Kill all Christians' thing they did. So Satan probably thought to himself "I guess I'll have to do this the easier, less violent way". So, what is this way? How do you destroy a group without much violence? YOU ATTACK FROM THE INSIDE, WHERE THEY WILL NEVER EXPECT YOU!! Truely, its a simple thing. Satan starts to spread little lies about scripture to a few people, they spread it, soon its 'church law' and whatnot. "This scripture is really talking about (insert group here). We have to start a Crusade against these people. Lets take certain freedoms away from them. Lets make them feel bad for (Insert an action here). God made them or gave them (Insert anything here), but we have to make their life a living hell."

Let me ask ya something. How many people, besides yourself, do you know who have cast aside their homosexuality and either 1. became celibate, or 2. picked up the heterosexual lifestyle? Again, I stress the point. You must know, 100%, that these people have done these things, and offer some proof of this. If you can do this, here's another question. What method of preaching was presented to them? Was it the "Change or Burn Forever! You're a sinner and your desires come from Satan!" or was it "Jesus Christ came to earth to save ALL people. To accept this gift, and to start your life anew, all you have to do is ask Jesus into your heart and be born again by spirit and with water" ?

 

[PatrickM]

And this relates to the original post . . . . how???

Talk about getting off topic!

 

[kdet]

Sweetkitty, You have some major problems in your beliefs and whatnot.

Hmmm, how could I not find such a statement inoffensive?




No offense, but is it not possible for You to be decieved? Whats would be the best way to destroy Christianity? From the out side? Nope, I believe Satan tried that with the romans and the whole 'Kill all Christians' thing they did. So Satan probably thought to himself "I guess I'll have to do this the easier, less violent way". So, what is this way? How do you destroy a group without much violence? YOU ATTACK FROM THE INSIDE, WHERE THEY WILL NEVER EXPECT YOU!! Truely, its a simple thing. Satan starts to spread little lies about scripture to a few people, they spread it, soon its 'church law' and whatnot. "This scripture is really talking about (insert group here). We have to start a Crusade against these people. Lets take certain freedoms away from them. Lets make them feel bad for (Insert an action here). God made them or gave them (Insert anything here), but we have to make their life a living hell."

Your example is exactly what I feel is happening in the Church today, excpet that I see it as the liberals and the homosexuals that are spreading the little lies about scripture. IMO Satan is having a field day watching Gods Word being perverted.

Let me ask ya something. How many people, besides yourself, do you know who have cast aside their homosexuality and either 1. became celibate, or 2. picked up the heterosexual lifestyle? Again, I stress the point. You must know, 100%, that these people have done these things, and offer some proof of this.

And what proof would you like? The names and phone numbers of my friends that have done this??? Come on, let's be real here, shall we? You can either believe what I say or not.... but to demand I prove this to you is ridiculous.

If you can do this, here's another question. What method of preaching was presented to them? Was it the "Change or Burn Forever! You're a sinner and your desires come from Satan!" or was it "Jesus Christ came to earth to save ALL people. To accept this gift, and to start your life anew, all you have to do is ask Jesus into your heart and be born again by spirit and with water" ?
I can tell you the preaching I recieved was about how no matter the mistakes I had made in my life God still loved me and wanted me and would forgive me. It's amazing to me the Christians that refuse to accept the fact that God changes lives...that is the whole point of accepting the Lord...He changes YOU!

 

[stray bullet]

I believe the Lord changes lives, but I am still waiting for mine to be changed. Quite honestly, I don't think it will.

I think the confused, emotionally unstable and those abused as children can be 'cured' (changed to how they originally were), but for some of us, this is just the way we are.

It would be like denying half of who I am. The attraction to guys is only part of a more complex part of my personality. Deep down, I am very feminine and desire/feel many of the exact same things women do... although I don't dare speak about it or let it out. Even now I am somewhat ashamed to mention it... but it is still who I am.

I think this is the same way for a lot of gays, bisexuals and lesbians. Their sexuality is a piece of a greater part of them, which for many of us seems impossible to get rid of... as though we were killing part of who we are.

 

[stray bullet]

The original post must have been correct, as no one here has even attempted to debate the merits of it.

It has deteriorated into a "I feel" subjective discussion. Pity, as the original post had many good points. Must be better for some to continue with their head in the sand.

The original post was just quotes from the bible with the author's own interpretation it. Taking 'facts' and adding your own spin and opinion on it is nothing new. The issue of homosexuality and the bible has been argued here countless times, so forgive all of us for losing interest in wanting to counterpoint scripture with scripture, it gets tiresome.

 

[kdet]

I believe the Lord changes lives, but I am still waiting for mine to be changed. Quite honestly, I don't think it will.

I think the confused, emotionally unstable and those abused as children can be 'cured' (changed to how they originally were), but for some of us, this is just the way we are.

It would be like denying half of who I am. The attraction to guys is only part of a more complex part of my personality. Deep down, I am very feminine and desire/feel many of the exact same things women do... although I don't dare speak about it or let it out. Even now I am somewhat ashamed to mention it... but it is still who I am.

I think this is the same way for a lot of gays, bisexuals and lesbians. Their sexuality is a piece of a greater part of them, which for many of us seems impossible to get rid of... as though we were killing part of who we are.

You are only 23 and yet you have decided to give up already? If I had chosen that path I would probably not even be alive today.God does things in HIS own time not ours.

 

[stray bullet]

You are only 23 and yet you have decided to give up already? If I had chosen that path I would probably not even be alive today.God does things in HIS own time not ours.

I hated myself for almost 10 years, when I finally realized there is no need to hate myself.

My life was far more messed up and headed in a horrible direction when I was telling myself I can change than it is now that I can accept who I am and believe that God loves me regardless

If you were going to die because of the life you were living, perhaps that is why you changed. I, however, am far more happier an tolerant now that I am ok with what I am.

 

[flicka]

If you were going to die because of the life you were living, perhaps that is why you changed. I, however, am far more happier an tolerant now that I am ok with what I am.

I think you hit the nail on the head with that one. People go thru profound changes because it is necessary for their survival. Whether it is from 'finding god' or some other avenue, the bottom line is if your happy with yourself and accepting of who you are you don't need to be changed.

 

[Living4JesusChrist]

People shouldnt try most to satisfy themselves, they should try most to satisfy God. Not to say you can't satisfy yourself, just put God before yourself. God bless!

 

[Miss Shelby]

The opinion of most major denominations including the Catholic Church used to be that interracial marriage was a sin.

This is not true.

Michelle

 

[MissFirerose]

Question: Does the Catholic Church allow interracial marriages?

Not, "does", "did".

 

[MissFirerose]

This is not true.

Michelle

Please see post #119. And, incidentally, do you have any evidence supporting your position, or is it pure opinion?

 

[seebs]

The historical opposition to interracial marriage is pretty well documented throughout most of Christianity's history.

 

[Miss Shelby]

Miss Firerose,

Please do not try assert what the Catholic Church teaches/taught by presenting links from religioustolerance.org and other non Catholic sources.

If you can provide me with a Catholic source that states that you might have an arguement, but what the Church teaches about prerequistion to marriage mainly includes Baptism, if the marriage is to be viewed as Sacramental.

Michelle

 

[MissFirerose]

Miss Firerose,

Please do not try assert what the Catholic Church teaches/taught by presenting links from religioustolerance.org and other non Catholic sources.

If you can provide me with a Catholic source that states that you might have an arguement, but what the Church teaches about prerequistion to marriage mainly includes Baptism, if the marriage is to be viewed as Sacramental.

Michelle

I searched on Google and couldn't find anything that really related to Catholicism's historical stance on interracial marriage. That has to say something, if no one wants to bring it up. And once again, do you have any evidence in support of your position, or is it pure opinion? I have evidence of Christianity's stance, and if Catholicism was drastically different, it would have said so.

 

[MissFirerose]

The historical opposition to interracial marriage is pretty well documented throughout most of Christianity's history.

I agree.

 

[Miss Shelby]

I searched on Google and couldn't find anything that really related to Catholicism's historical stance on interracial marriage. That has to say something, if no one wants to bring it up. And once again, do you have any evidence in support of your position, or is it pure opinion? I have evidence of Christianity's stance, and if Catholicism was drastically different, it would have said so.

Do you mean to ask me if I have an opinion on what the Church teaches about interracial marriage? It is not an opinion, it is fact that the Church has no official stance opposing it. What the Church teaches is clear in the Catechism, and if the Church at anytime condemned it, it would be there for all to see. It isn't.

The fact that you could only find 'evidence' from non Catholic sources should tell you something.

Michelle

 

[MissFirerose]

Do you mean to ask me if I have an opinion on what the Church teaches about interracial marriage? It is not an opinion,

No facts equal an opinion. Your stance on interracial marriage in regard to the modern stance of the Catholic Church is supported by facts, but so far you have no shown me any facts that support the historical Catholic stance accepting interracial marriage. I have facts that show Christianity's historical stance, and Catholicism is never excluded. Until I see facts that support your claim that Catholicism's historical stance should be excluded, I won't exclude it. The same goes for any denomination.

It is a fact that the Church has no official stance opposing it in modern days. In regard to the historical stance, the modern stance is irrelevant.

What the Church teaches is clear in the Catechism,

What the Church teaches in modern days is clear in the Catechism.

Once again, in regard to the historical stance, the modern stance is irrelevant.

and if the Church at anytime condemned it, it would be there for all to see. It isn't.

Do you have any evidence that the Catechism lists every change in Catholicism's stance on issues, especially ones that would be rather embarrassing, like banning interracial marriage? I'm a Christian, and I'm rather embarrassed by the whole thing.

The fact that you could only find 'evidence' from non Catholic sources should tell you something.
Michelle

I can't find any evidence from any source in relation to the historical stance of Catholicism and interracial marriages. I found evidence for the historical stance of Christianity, but not the historical stance of Catholicism. If Catholicism was radically different, one could conclude that whenever Christianity's historical stance is stated, an exception would be made to Catholicism. There is no exception.

 

[Miss Shelby]

No facts equal an opinion. Your stance on interracial marriage in regard to the modern stance of the Catholic Church is supported by facts, but so far you have no shown me any facts that support the historical Catholic stance accepting interracial marriage.

What would you accept as proof that the Church has never condemned interracial marriages? Marriage licenses of those Catholics who were married with the blessing of the Church?

I have facts that show Christianity's historical stance, and Catholicism is never excluded. Until I see facts that support your claim that Catholicism's historical stance should be excluded, I won't exclude it. The same goes for any denomination.

First of all Catholicism is not a denomination. Secondly, it doesn't matter if the sources you provide do not exclude the Church. There is no official document ever that you will be able to find that states the Church did not approve of it. The Church usually does not make official pronouncments about something unless a hersey threatens, so the fact that the teaching authority is silent about this speaks volumes. Also, even if you are able to find people throughout history claiming to be Catholic and teachings that interracial marriage was wrong, that does NOT make it official Catholic teaching. It makes those people dissenters of the faith who taught error and did not represent the Church accurately.

It is a fact that the Church has no official stance opposing it in modern days. In regard to the historical stance, the modern stance is irrelevant. What the Church teaches in modern days is clear in the Catechism.

This is a moot point, as I have stated there is no document in existance ever that condemnes interracial marriages.

Once again, in regard to the historical stance, the modern stance is irrelevant. Do you have any evidence that the Catechism lists every change in Catholicism's stance on issues, especially ones that would be rather embarrassing, like banning interracial marriage? I'm a Christian, and I'm rather embarrassed by the whole thing. I can't find any evidence from any source in relation to the historical stance of Catholicism and interracial marriages. I found evidence for the historical stance of Christianity, but not the historical stance of Catholicism. If Catholicism was radically different, one could conclude that whenever Christianity's historical stance is stated, an exception would be made to Catholicism. There is no exception.

If there were Catholics who did this, they did in against the teaching of the Church, and yes that is embarrasing. But my point is that it is NOT something that the Church ever OFFICIALLY condemned, that being interracial marriages.

Isn't this thread supposed to be about homosexuality?

Michelle