A verse that single-handedly destroys the dispensational delusion!

[SeventyOne]

Jesus was in danger not from being eaten by a dragon but killed by herod.... you still neglect to answer who but Christ is caught up to God and His throne and will rules with a rod of iron.... only Christ

It's the church, who also rules with a rod of iron.

You're also missing the point, Herod was not set to kill Jesus when He was born. He was actually almost 2 years too late. Either it's precise, or it isn't the fulfillment. One can see typology in the circumstances surrounding Jesus, but it isn't exact on several points. Not to mention, it was a past event.

 

[jerry kelso]

That is yet to occur. Remember the first verse of Revelation....

Revelation 1:1 (NKJV) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John,

The Revelation hadn't been given to Yeshua by the Father till almost 60 years after His death and ascension. He gave it to John to give to us. It is about things that will come to pass, not those that have. Timing alone shows that the child of chapter 12 cannot be Yeshua.

But his body, the church, now that is about the only thing that fits. And the church is to rule with a rod of Iron just like Yeshua. In His own words....

Revelation 2:26-27 (NKJV) And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations—
27 “He shall rule them with a rod of iron;
They shall be dashed to pieces like the potter's vessels’—as I also have received from My Father;

copperhead,

1. Revelation 1:19; is the time factor for Revelation.
Revelation 12 is the things hereafter Revelation 4:1 which means after the churche age for the church is in Heaven before the tribulation starts represented by the 24 elders Revelation 5:9-10.

2. Revelation 12 is in the middle tribulation because the Dragon who represents Satan is turrning over the helm to the Antichrist Revelation 13:3.

3. John had already seen the ascension of Christ in the past. This passage is future so it could not be Christ.
It cannot be the church for they are in Heaven during the whole tribulation Revelation 5:9-10; 11:18; 19:8-10.
The Manchild is the 144,000 Jews from Revelation 7. They are preserved through the trumpet judgements Revelation 9:4.
They are in Heaven which is the Heavenly Mt. Sion not the earthly. Same in Hebrews 10:22.
They are redeemed from the earth and from among men Revelation 14:1-5.
This is why verse 17 says remnant of her seed which is the Sun-clothed Woman who is none other than the nation of Israel.
Israel births the Manchild; the 144,000 and the believing remnant who are scattered while the woman is preserved in the wilderness for the remainder of the tribulation. Jerry kelso

 

[Copperhead]

. John had already seen the ascension of Christ in the past. This passage is future so it could not be Christ.
It cannot be the church for they are in Heaven during the whole tribulation Revelation 5:9-10; 11:18; 19:8-10.

Indeed! But the ascension of Yeshua John saw was not a Harpazo, or forcible snatching up of Yeshua. Revelation 12:5 says that the child (in the Greek harpazo) is forcibly snatched up as soon as it is born. Yeshua ascended in a more gradual manner at age 32-33. Harpazo would be the word that would apply if you were standing in a road, a truck was coming at you, and I grabbed you and yanked you out of harm's way.

And this catching up of the child does indeed happen at the beginning of the Tribulation, so your contention of the church in heaven is correct. here are a couple of passages that show that from the OT...

Isaiah 66:7-8 (NKJV) “Before she was in labor, she gave birth;
Before her pain came,
She delivered a male child.
8 Who has heard such a thing?
Who has seen such things?
Shall the earth be made to give birth in one day?
Or shall a nation be born at once?
For as soon as Zion was in labor,
She gave birth to her children

1 Peter 2:9 says we, the believers, are a holy nation.

Jeremiah 30:5-7 (NKJV) “For thus says the Lord:
‘We have heard a voice of trembling,
Of fear, and not of peace.
6 Ask now, and see,
Whether a man is ever in labor with child?
So why do I see every man with his hands on his loins
Like a woman in labor,
And all faces turned pale?
7 Alas! For that day is great,
So that none is like it;
And it is the time of Jacob's trouble,
But he shall be saved out of it.

The labor is the time of the Tribulation / Time of Jacob's Trouble / Daniel's 70th week. The passage previously shown in Isaiah says that this birth as Israel begins labor.

But this passage in Revelation 12:5 is clearly a reference to the Messiah, as He is to reign and rule with a rod of Iron. But we are called the Body of Christ, and in Revelation 2:26-27, Yeshua proclaims that those who overcome will also rule and reign with a rod of Iron as He does.

So Revelation 12:5 is a removal of the church at the start of the Tribulation period, which is the Body of Christ, so it is the Messiah in that sense who is being caught up.

Revelation 12 is a composite that supports the previous chapter which shows the witnesses. Like placing an overlay on a overhead projector. Those guys do their stuff during the first 1260 days / 3.5 years whereas the woman (Israel) flees the dragon for the latter 1260 days / 3.5 years. So the birth and catching up is at the beginning of the Tribulation period as referenced by the OT passages above.

 

[JWO]

I say, please repent and escape from the dispensational delusion. God fulfilled His promise to Israel. Christ served Israel first, and the Gospel was first preached to them.

John 10:13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd, and know My sheep, and am known of Mine. 15 As the Father knoweth Me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear My voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Matthew 24:14 And this Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
John 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life."

 

[JWO]

Dispensationalists teach that any and every person who dies without faith in the Lord Jesus Christ

Don't dispensationalists also teach that Jesus' Kingdom Gospel is not currently in effect?

 

[JWO]

Yes Jews are Israelites but not all Israelites are Jews.

Revelation 2:9 ... I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. 10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Revelation 6:9 And when He had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Isaiah 8:16 Bind up the testimony, seal the law among My disciples. 18 Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given Me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion. 20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Revelation 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. 10 Because thou hast kept the word of My patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Revelation 2:22 Behold, I will cast [Jezebel] into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am He which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

 

[JWO]

Peter and Paul taught the same Gospel.

1 Peter 5:12 By Silvanus, a faithful brother unto you, as I suppose, I have written briefly, exhorting, and testifying that this is the true grace of God wherein ye stand.

Silas, Silvanus [Sī'las,Sĭl vā'nus]—lover of words. A distinguished member and prophet of the Apostolic Church at Jerusalem who figures as the companion of Paul in his triumphs and trials.--BibleGateWay

 

[JWO]

Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

There is only One Gospel.

Matthew 4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

Matthew 9:35 And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.