Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Body, soul, and spirit are the one person, Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, and God.Two separate "tings" (sic)?
Your quote talks about two separate persons. Body is not a person of its own (though it has its own collective "will" and goals, in mitochondria and microbiome).
The father gave to the child African attributes, and the mother gave the child Asian attributes, and both gave the child human attributes; the Lord, Jesus Christ has God as his Father, the Blessed Virgin Mary as his mother, and as such he received his deity from God, his humanity from Blessed Mary, and his personhood from both. There is one Lord, just as there is one God and Father of us all, one faith, one baptism. Christ is one person, not two, he is fully human and fully God. This is why we confess Blessed Mary as the mother of God, because she gave birth to the whole person, the Lord Jesus Christ.When a Asian woman gives birth to a baby whose father is African, who gave the baby his African atibutes?
Was Jesus God and person before incarnation? If so, his body is not what constitutes His deity or personality.Body, soul, and spirit are the one person, Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, and God.
Spend less time speculating and more time following Jesus and all will become clear.Was Jesus God and person before incarnation? If so, his body is not what constitutes His deity or personality.
Its not a speculation. Answer the question, if you can, for yourself. If the answer does not fit the views you have been taught, you do not have to admit it publicly, but consider it at least privately.Spend less time speculating and more time following Jesus and all will become clear.
There you go with the condescending sniping again.Spend less time speculating and more time following Jesus and all will become clear.
One become exhausted answering nonsense questions, so I offered sincere advice; trust and obey ought to work. It is better than speculating.There you go with the condescending sniping again.
You're still being condescending and rude.One become exhausted answering nonsense questions,
You accused someone of inadequacy in following Jesus.so I offered sincere advice; trust and obey ought to work. It is better than speculating.
seems to me that you are the one attacking me.You're still being condescending and rude.
You accused someone of inadequacy in following Jesus.
I think the real problem is when you can't maintain a proper argument you resort to personal attacks.
It is entirely possible to deny Mary an honorific on the grounds that undue attention is paid to Mary and such talk distracts from the gospel of Jesus Christ, without denying that Mary gave birth to a single baby that is both divine and human. Nestorias' heresy came from what he said about the atonement, and his denial of Mary as theotokos was secondary/supplementary. While a Nestorian would deny Mary as Theotokos, refusing to call Mary Theotokos does not necessarily spring from Nestorianism.Nestorianism is a Christian doctrine that originated in the 5th century and was promoted by Nestorius, the Patriarch of Constantinople 1. The doctrine asserts that there were two separate persons, one human and one divine, in the incarnate Christ 1. Nestorianism was condemned as a heresy by the ecumenical councils of Ephesus (431) and Chalcedon (451) 2. The Oxford English Dictionary defines Nestorianism as “The doctrine of Nestorius, patriarch of Constantinople (appointed in 428), by which Christ is asserted to have had distinct human and divine persons” 1.
1: OxfordDictionaries 2: Britannica
People who refuse to acknowledge that Mary is the mother of God do so through asserting that Mary is mother only of the human flesh of Christ, thus they divide the person of Christ into two separate things.
What you've written is not accurate.It is entirely possible to deny Mary an honorific on the grounds that undue attention is paid to Mary and such talk distracts from the gospel of Jesus Christ, without denying that Mary gave birth to a single baby that is both divine and human. Nestorias' heresy came from what he said about the atonement, and his denial of Mary as theotokos was secondary/supplementary. While a Nestorian would deny Mary as Theotokos, refusing to call Mary Theotokos does not necessarily spring from Nestorianism.
Catholics call Mary Blessed in accordance with the teaching of the holy scriptures; to withhold this from her is not a prudent measure used to save the crowds from giving to Blessed Mary too much honour, it is to fulfil the prophecy that Blessed Mary spoke in Luke Chapter one. Nor does calling Mary Blessed distract from the gospel because it is part of the gospel to do so. And the nature of Nestorianism was given in a definition in one of my previous posts and it differs from what you wrote. FurthermoreIn what way?
That doesn't answer my question, it's simply editorializing and then repeating a definition that lacks specific information. The objection of Nestorius was "God was born" and "God suffered," objections which aren't necessarily present in people who object to Marian titles today.Catholics call Mary Blessed in accordance with the teaching of the holy scriptures; to withhold this from her is not a prudent measure used to save the crowds from giving to Blessed Mary too much honour, it is to fulfil the prophecy that Blessed Mary spoke in Luke Chapter one. Nor does calling Mary Blessed distract from the gospel because it is part of the gospel to do so. And the nature of Nestorianism was given in a definition in one of my previous posts and it differs from what you wrote. Furthermore
Nestorianism is a term used in Christian theology and Church history to refer to several mutually related but doctrinarily distinct sets of teachings.[1] The first meaning of the term is related to the original teachings of Christian theologian Nestorius (d. c. 450 AD), who promoted specific doctrines in the fields of Christology and Mariology. The second meaning of the term is much wider, and relates to a set of later theological teachings, that were traditionally labelled as Nestorian, but differ from the teachings of Nestorius in origin, scope and terminology.[2] The Oxford English Dictionary defines Nestorianism as "The doctrine of Nestorius, patriarch of Constantinople (appointed in 428), by which Christ is asserted to have had distinct human and divine persons."[3]
The early church fathers together in two councils ruled that to refuse to confess Blessed Mary as the mother of God was to deny that the Lord Jesus Christ was one person and not two. That was at the heart of Nestorius' heresy and it is why his heresy and he himself were condemned by those councils. Your posts do not acknowledge that. Nevertheless history does acknowledge it.That doesn't answer my question, it's simply editorializing and then repeating a definition that lacks specific information. The objection of Nestorius was "God was born" and "God suffered," objections which aren't necessarily present in people who object to Marian titles today.
The heresy is dividing Christ into two persons, as heresies have to do with the person of Christ. That you include honorifics for Mary in the same realm as Christ's person speaks to an issue on your end. The Christological error has Marion consequences, but it does not follow that refusing Mary a title has Christological consequences. And to insist that it must simply means you are not taking the time to understand what the critics are saying and instead attempting to paint them with a false charge.The early church fathers together in two councils ruled that to refuse to confess Blessed Mary as the mother of God was to deny that the Lord Jesus Christ was one person and not two. That was at the heart of Nestorius' heresy and it is why his heresy and he himself were condemned by those councils. Your posts do not acknowledge that. Nevertheless history does acknowledge it.
The Christological error has Marion consequences, but it does not follow that refusing Mary a title has Christological consequences.
That would depend on what lays behind the refusal, because Nestorius' objection was at the idea of saying God was born. It is the Christology that drove the objection to the Marian title, whereas objections to Marian titles among most modern critics is driven by a belief that Mary is borderline(or outright) the object of worship with those titles. The objection is not necessarily evidence of a defective Christology, and insisting that it must is nothing more than a refusal to attempt to understand the critics.Refusing to refer to her as Theotokos in particular absolutely does have Christological consequences. Nestorius even proposed his own alternative title for her that was more in line with his Christology (Christotokos), but the fathers rejected that as part of rejecting his Christology.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?