A troubling confession - Extra ecclesiam nulla salus!

[Strong in Him]

Nonsense, saint John says, "there are many other things that Jesus did. If they were all written down one by one, I suppose that the whole world could not hold the books that would be written."

But that doesn't mean that we can adopt/practice any doctrine we choose and then say, "well Jesus taught many other things - it was probably in there somewhere."
That is arguing from silence. As there is no record of Jesus saying it, we can't prove that he did, or didn't. People could introduce any doctrine they wished into the church and then say, " Well Jesus said, and did, many other things so it's fine."

 

[ozso]

Nonsense, saint John says, "there are many other things that Jesus did. If they were all written down one by one, I suppose that the whole world could not hold the books that would be written."

There's another one that gets posted a lot, but what's actually being said gets overlooked

What Jesus did. Not what Jesus said. Not what Jesus taught. But what Jesus did.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

But that doesn't mean that we can adopt/practice any doctrine we choose and then say, "well Jesus taught many other things - it was probably in there somewhere."

We, meaning Catholics, do not teach that. What we teach is that the Apostles left behind a Tradition in their teaching that was not written down by them or by their immediate companions but that over time, as occasions demanded it would be hammered out into clear written doctrines to combat errors raised by those who had abandoned Apostolic Tradition or who never possessed it.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

What Jesus did. Not what Jesus said. Not what Jesus taught. But what Jesus did.

Teaching is a thing that Jesus did, so was talking also a thing that Jesus did. Your post is playing games with words just to preserve the errors your posted in earlier posts.

 

[Strong in Him]

We, meaning Catholics, do not teach that. What we teach is that the Apostles left behind a Tradition in their teaching that was not written down by them or by their immediate companions but that over time, as occasions demanded it would be hammered out into clear written doctrines to combat errors raised by those who had abandoned Apostolic Tradition or who never possessed it.

That's what the Scribes and Pharisees said.
There were the commands of God, then there was their own oral tradition. Jesus told them that they were nullifying God's word by their own traditions, Mark 7:9; Mark 7:13.

 

[Philip_B]

We, meaning Catholics, do not teach that. What we teach is that the Apostles left behind a Tradition in their teaching that was not written down by them or by their immediate companions but that over time, as occasions demanded it would be hammered out into clear written doctrines to combat errors raised by those who had abandoned Apostolic Tradition or who never possessed it.

Do you have evidence to support that, and the veracity to support the content of that teaching?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Do you have evidence to support that, and the veracity to support the content of that teaching?

Yes, the Canon and decrees of 21 ecumenical councils, the creeds that were produced by the councils, and the canon of scripture defined by the councils.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

That's what the Scribes and Pharisees said.
There were the commands of God, then there was their own oral tradition. Jesus told them that they were nullifying God's word by their own traditions, Mark 7:9; Mark 7:13.

Apostolic Tradition is the teaching of the Lord Jesus Christ, it is not what Pharisees had.

 

[ozso]

Teaching is a thing that Jesus did, so was talking also a thing that Jesus did. Your post is playing games with words just to preserve the errors your posted in earlier posts.

It's obvious John is talking about the miracles Jesus performed. The word for "did" in the Greek confirms that. I'm just reading the text based on what it says, rather than baed on what I was told it says.

Past errors? Quote them and refute them.

 

[ozso]

Apostolic Tradition is the teaching of the Lord Jesus Christ, it is not what Pharisees had.

Yes but apostolic tradition is what was established by the Apostles. Not by other sources a long time afterwards. Post apostolic tradition is not apostolic tradition

 

[Strong in Him]

Apostolic Tradition is the teaching of the Lord Jesus Christ, it is not what Pharisees had.

It's still oral tradition which no one can verify. As opposed to what is written in the word of God and taught by Jesus.
The statement was "Jesus didn't teach these things about Mary." The answer seems to be "he taught lots of things that have not been written down, - yet our tradition teaches that he did say them."

Tradition isn't necessarily bad/wrong - for example, tradition says that John wrote the 4th Gospel, that Thomas went to India, that Peter was crucified upside down. But those aren't doctrines.
How can a doctrine - tenet - of the Christian faith be built on silence?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

It's still oral tradition which no one can verify.

The Church verifies it.

As opposed to what is written in the word of God and taught by Jesus.

What is written by people other than the Lord, Jesus Christ, and that we say he taught.

The statement was "Jesus didn't teach these things about Mary." The answer seems to be "he taught lots of things that have not been written down, - yet our tradition teaches that he did say them."

That is about it, except that the tradition is not Catholic alone.

Tradition isn't necessarily bad/wrong - for example, tradition says that John wrote the 4th Gospel, that Thomas went to India, that Peter was crucified upside down. But those aren't doctrines.

Traditions say those things but that is not Apostolic Tradition.

How can a doctrine - tenet - of the Christian faith be built on silence?

Since Apostolic Tradition is passed on by the spoken word it is not silent.

 

[ozso]

The Church verifies it.

What is written by people other than the Lord, Jesus Christ, and that we say he taught.

That is about it, except that the tradition is not Catholic alone.

Traditions say those things but that is not Apostolic Tradition.

Since Apostolic Tradition is passed on by the spoken word it is not silent.

It seems like the idea is unwritten apostolic tradition was passed on down the line by one person whispering into another's ear throughout the centuries.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

It seems like the idea is unwritten apostolic tradition was passed on down the line by one person whispering into another's ear throughout the centuries.

On the contrary, it is passed down by one bishop to another openly and clearly.

 

[ozso]

On the contrary, it is passed down by one bishop to another openly and clearly.

Starting with which bishop?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Starting with which bishop?

Saint Peter and the 11 apostles chosen by the Lord, Jesus Christ.

 

[ozso]

Saint Peter and the 11 apostles chosen by the Lord, Jesus Christ.

I'm trying to understand this. The apostles taught tradition open and clearly from the beginning but it's unwritten/unrecorded.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

I'm trying to understand this. The apostles taught tradition open and clearly from the beginning but it's unwritten/unrecorded.

I'd refer you back to John 21:25.

 

[ozso]

I'd refer you back to John 21:25.

What has been spoken by the Apostles clearly to one bishop to another that wasn't written down?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

What has been spoken by the Apostles clearly to one bishop to another that wasn't written down?

Everything that is in Holy Tradition that is not in Holy Scripture; the former is the superset and the latter the proper subset of divine revealed truth.