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A tough questions for a blind man...

ricker

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The Strong's number, G444, can refer to human beings, male or female. It can also refer to animals. Since it can refer to human beings, male or female, as well as, animals we would have to say, according the to the fourth commandment, Jesus was using the term (man) to identify mankind, which would include all human beings (including Adam & Eve), male and female, as well as, animals. Just as the fourth commandment says.

Exodus 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.

Now don't try to say Jesus was referring to Jewish cattle.

jewish_cow.jpg
Wow. All I can say is do you read what you write?
 
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Cribstyl

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My concordance says that 'anthropos' means human being...
that a reference to neutral gender rather than male specific. The definition is more like "person" rather than "people."
There are over 500 references of G444 that all speak in the plural, not singualr as you have said. If this is true, then does not the verse from Mark 2:27 include all mankind?

That soooooo false.
AV — man 552, not tr 4, misc 3




1. (Mat 4:4 - Mat 10:33)
2. (Mat 13:31 - Mat 19:28)
3. (Mat 20:1 - Mar 2:10)
4. (Mar 2:27 - Mar 10:45)
5. (Mar 11:2 - Luk 6:48)
6. (Luk 6:49 - Luk 14:16)
7. (Luk 14:30 - Luk 22:60)
8. (Luk 22:69 - Jhn 5:34)
9. (Jhn 6:27 - Jhn 18:29)
10. (Jhn 19:5 - Act 26:32)
11. (Act 28:4 - 1Cr 4:1)
12. (1Cr 6:18 - Gal 5:3)
13. (Gal 6:1 - Jam 1:7)
14. (Jam 1:19 - Rev 21:17)
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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What is sooo false that I posted? The scriptures that you listed, links to the same article that confirms G444 as meaning human being. When did I say anything about neutral, male, female gender specific? What does that have to do with my discussion with Ricker.

You are diverting from the point that the use of the word 'man' in Mark 2:27, isn't just refering to the Jews but to all of man. This means that the Sabbath was made for all of us, Jew and Gentile alike.
 
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Cribstyl

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What is sooo false that I posted? The scriptures that you listed, links to the same article that confirms G444 as meaning human being. When did I say anything about neutral, male, female gender specific? What does that have to do with my discussion with Ricker.

You are diverting from the point that the use of the word 'man' in Mark 2:27, isn't just refering to the Jews but to all of man. This means that the Sabbath was made for all of us, Jew and Gentile alike.
You said:
"There are over 500 references of G444 that all speak in the plural, not singualr as you have said. If this is true, then does not the verse from Mark 2:27 include all mankind?"

(Is that your final answer?) PROVE IT, (that's sooo false)

The very first point made by all dictionaries is that "man" is singular; meaning "a (1) human being".

In my previous post I added "not gender specific" to say that man does not always mean a male in it's bible usage. (an obvious point)

ECR, Both you and K4c exposed yourselves. Ricker must be stunned as I am, by both your ignorance or manipulation of the definiton of the word "man".


G444 ἄνθρωπος - Strong's Greek Lexicon Number

ἄνθρωποςmanfacedἄνθρωπος from G3700); man-faced, i.e. a human being
Derivation: from G435 and ὤψ (the countenance;
KJV Usage: certain, man. G435 G3700
Thayer:
1) a human being, whether male or female:
.....1a) generically, to include all human individuals
.....1b) to distinguish man from beings of a different order:
............1b1) of animals and plants
............1b2) of from God and Christ
............1b3) of the angels
.....1c) with the added notion of weakness, by which man is led
..........into a mistake or prompted to sin
.....1d) with the adjunct notion of contempt or disdainful pity
.....1e) with reference to two fold nature of man, body and soul
.....1f) with reference to the two fold nature of man, the corrupt and
..........the truly Christian man, conformed to the nature of God
.....1g) with reference to sex, a male
2) indefinitely, someone, a man, one
3) in the plural, people
4) joined with other words, merchantman
--------------------------------------------------------------------
When your point is false, the attachments cannot stand alone ECR.



K4c also needs a lesson on how to use a dictionary because he said; "It can also refer to animals." (we can expect him to divert rather than retract false statements) This is trully embarassing.

The dictionary is saying that "man" is distinguished from animals....
 
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k4c

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K4c also needs a lesson on how to use a dictionary because he said; "It can also refer to animals." (we can expect him to divert rather than retract false statements) This is trully embarassing.

The dictionary is saying that "man" is distinguished from animals....

I was trying to show how the fourth commandment included animals too, not that animals and man are the same. My bad for the misunderstanding.

But you're not off the hook, you still get one of these...

alien-abduction-spaceship.gif
 
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Cribstyl

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Available Translations and Versions for Mark 2:27

KJV - Mar 2:27 -And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:


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NKJV - Mar 2:27 -And He said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.


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NLT - Mar 2:27 -Then he said to them, "The Sabbath was made to benefit people, and not people to benefit the Sabbath.


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NIV - Mar 2:27 -Then he said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.


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ESV - Mar 2:27 -And he said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.


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RVR - Mar 2:27 -También les dijo: El día de reposo fue hecho por causa del hombre, y no el hombre por causa del día de reposo.


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NASB - Mar 2:27 -Jesus said to them, "The Sabbath *was made *for man, and not man *for the Sabbath.


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RSV - Mar 2:27 -And he said to them, "The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath;


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ASV - Mar 2:27 -And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:


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YNG - Mar 2:27 -And he said to them, `The sabbath for man was made, not man for the sabbath,


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DBY - Mar 2:27 -And he said to them, The sabbath was made on account of man, not man on account of the sabbath;


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WEB - Mar 2:27 -And he said to them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:


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HNV - Mar 2:27 -He said to them, "The Shabbat was made for man, not man for the Shabbat.


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VUL - Mar 2:27 -et dicebat eis sabbatum propter hominem factum est et non homo propter sabbatum


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TR - Mar 2:27 -καὶ ἔλεγεν αὐτοῖς Τὸ σάββατον διὰ τὸν ἄνθρωπον ἐγένετο οὐχ ὁ ἄνθρωπος διὰ τὸ σάββατον



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mGNT - Mar 2:27 -καὶ ἔλεγεν αὐτοῖς τὸ σάββατον διὰ τὸν ἄνθρωπον ἐγένετο καὶ οὐχ ὁ ἄνθρωπος διὰ τὸ σάββατον
 
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k4c

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You said:
"There are over 500 references of G444 that all speak in the plural, not singualr as you have said. If this is true, then does not the verse from Mark 2:27 include all mankind?"

(Is that your final answer?) PROVE IT, (that's sooo false)

The very first point made by all dictionaries is that "man" is singular; meaning "a (1) human being".

In my previous post I added "not gender specific" to say that man does not always mean a male in it's bible usage. (an obvious point)

ECR, Both you and K4c exposed yourselves. Ricker must be stunned as I am, by both your ignorance or manipulation of the definiton of the word "man".

G444 ἄνθρωπος - Strong's Greek Lexicon Number

ἄνθρωποςmanfacedἄνθρωπος from G3700); man-faced, i.e. a human being
Derivation: from G435 and ὤψ (the countenance;
KJV Usage: certain, man. G435 G3700
Thayer:
1) a human being, whether male or female:
.....1a) generically, to include all human individuals
.....1b) to distinguish man from beings of a different order:
............1b1) of animals and plants
............1b2) of from God and Christ
............1b3) of the angels
.....1c) with the added notion of weakness, by which man is led
..........into a mistake or prompted to sin
.....1d) with the adjunct notion of contempt or disdainful pity
.....1e) with reference to two fold nature of man, body and soul
.....1f) with reference to the two fold nature of man, the corrupt and
..........the truly Christian man, conformed to the nature of God
.....1g) with reference to sex, a male
2) indefinitely, someone, a man, one
3) in the plural, people
4) joined with other words, merchantman
--------------------------------------------------------------------
When your point is false, the attachments cannot stand alone ECR.

K4c also needs a lesson on how to use a dictionary because he said; "It can also refer to animals." (we can expect him to divert rather than retract false statements) This is trully embarassing.

The dictionary is saying that "man" is distinguished from animals....

We can eliminate alot of this frivolous back and forth stuff by just listening to Jesus.

Jesus taught us many times on how to keep the seventh day Sabbath holy in light of love and caring for one another. He never once talked about all the other sabbaths that were institutded as a result of sin. Now I hope you don't say we don't have to listen to the teachings of Jesus.

John 10:27-28 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

Hebrews 5:9 And having been perfected, Jesus became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.
 
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Cribstyl

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I was trying to show how the fourth commandment included animals too, not that animals and man are the same. My bad for the misunderstanding.

But you're not off the hook, you still get one of these...

alien-abduction-spaceship.gif
Great diversion scheme (I'll laugh again).
If there is somebody on a hook it's got to be you and ECR trying to swizzle the definiton of "man" :D:D:D
 
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k4c

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Great diversion scheme (I'll laugh again).
If there is somebody on a hook it's got to be you and ECR trying to swizzle the definiton of "man" :D:D:D

Well, we all know you're spiritually blind but I didn't realize you were physically blind too. You missed this on...

k4c; We can eliminate alot of this frivolous back and forth stuff by just listening to Jesus.

Jesus taught us many times on how to keep the seventh day Sabbath holy in light of love and caring for one another. He never once talked about all the other sabbaths that were institutded as a result of sin. Now I hope you don't say we don't have to listen to the teachings of Jesus.

John 10:27-28 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

Hebrews 5:9 And having been perfected, Jesus became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.
 
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Cribstyl

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We can eliminate alot of this frivolous back and forth stuff by just listening to Jesus.

Jesus taught us many times on how to keep the seventh day Sabbath holy in light of love and caring for one another.

He never once talked about all the other sabbaths that were institutded as a result of sin. Now I hope you don't say we don't have to listen to the teachings of Jesus.

Your commentary is designed to misleads us to believe that Jesus taught many times how to keep the sabbath.
Truth is more than 75% of the use of sabbath in the New Testament are related to Jesus working on the sabbath. We do understand from the lessons that Jesus had authority to work on the sabbath day. Yes, Jesus did teach that it was OK to do good on the sabbath, (save lives). Jesus never changed the fact that Sabbath mean resting not working as you see fit.
1. (Mat 12:1 - Luk 6:5)
2. (Luk 6:6 - Jhn 20:19)
3. (Act 1:12 - Col 2:16)

Consistent to your usual tactics these scriptures below are not relative to prove anything about the sabbath................

John 10:27-28 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

Hebrews 5:9 And having been perfected, Jesus became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.[/quote]
 
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k4c

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Your commentary is designed to misleads us to believe that Jesus taught many times how to keep the sabbath.
Truth is more than 75% of the use of sabbath in the New Testament are related to Jesus working on the sabbath. We do understand from the lessons that Jesus had authority to work on the sabbath day. Yes, Jesus did teach that it was OK to do good on the sabbath, (save lives). Jesus never changed the fact that Sabbath mean resting not working as you see fit.
1. (Mat 12:1 - Luk 6:5)
2. (Luk 6:6 - Jhn 20:19)
3. (Act 1:12 - Col 2:16)

Consistent to your usual tactics these scriptures below are not relative to prove anything about the sabbath................

John 10:27-28 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

Hebrews 5:9 And having been perfected, Jesus became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.

I'll make one more comment and then I think it's time to kick the dust off my heels.

James tells us that if we break one of the Ten Commandments, we've broken them all.

Do you believe we can willfully, as a life practice, without care or conviction break anyone of the Ten Commandments and still be right with God and man?
 
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ricker

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You said:
"There are over 500 references of G444 that all speak in the plural, not singualr as you have said. If this is true, then does not the verse from Mark 2:27 include all mankind?"

(Is that your final answer?) PROVE IT, (that's sooo false)

The very first point made by all dictionaries is that "man" is singular; meaning "a (1) human being".

In my previous post I added "not gender specific" to say that man does not always mean a male in it's bible usage. (an obvious point)

ECR, Both you and K4c exposed yourselves. Ricker must be stunned as I am, by both your ignorance or manipulation of the definiton of the word "man".


G444 ἄνθρωπος - Strong's Greek Lexicon Number

ἄνθρωποςmanfacedἄνθρωπος from G3700); man-faced, i.e. a human being
Derivation: from G435 and ὤψ (the countenance;
KJV Usage: certain, man. G435 G3700
Thayer:
1) a human being, whether male or female:
.....1a) generically, to include all human individuals
.....1b) to distinguish man from beings of a different order:
............1b1) of animals and plants
............1b2) of from God and Christ
............1b3) of the angels
.....1c) with the added notion of weakness, by which man is led
..........into a mistake or prompted to sin
.....1d) with the adjunct notion of contempt or disdainful pity
.....1e) with reference to two fold nature of man, body and soul
.....1f) with reference to the two fold nature of man, the corrupt and
..........the truly Christian man, conformed to the nature of God
.....1g) with reference to sex, a male
2) indefinitely, someone, a man, one
3) in the plural, people
4) joined with other words, merchantman
--------------------------------------------------------------------
When your point is false, the attachments cannot stand alone ECR.



K4c also needs a lesson on how to use a dictionary because he said; "It can also refer to animals." (we can expect him to divert rather than retract false statements) This is trully embarassing.

The dictionary is saying that "man" is distinguished from animals....
Thanks, Cribstyl. :thumbsup:
 
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Joe67

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I'll make one more comment and then I think it's time to kick the dust off my heels.

James tells us that if we break one of the Ten Commandments, we've broken them all.

Do you believe we can willfully, as a life practice, without care or conviction break anyone of the Ten Commandments and still be right with God and man?
k4c,

The Pharisees saw adultery as the most corrupt and the most desirable of sinful human habits.

They did not feel their greed/covetousness/idolatry.

All who live by written information are idolatrous.

Joe
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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Crib, I am failing to understand what difference you are making from what I am saying.. the original statement for this discussion on G444 was, I said that 'man' in Mark 2:24 refered to mankind, meaning not just the Jews. You have done nothing but prove that same point for me. When Jesus said that Sabbath was made for man he wasn't just speaking to the Jews but all of man; as the lexicon says: human being.. all human individuals.

You have not shown anything different... if you can show that the Sabbath was made for the Jewish people only, then please do.
 
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Cribstyl

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Crib, I am failing to understand what difference you are making from what I am saying.. the original statement for this discussion on G444 was, I said that 'man' in Mark 2:24 refered to mankind, meaning not just the Jews. You have done nothing but prove that same point for me. When Jesus said that Sabbath was made for man he wasn't just speaking to the Jews but all of man; as the lexicon says: human being.. all human individuals.

You have not shown anything different... if you can show that the Sabbath was made for the Jewish people only, then please do.
Im sure you're refering to Mark2:27. I did not say that Jesus isolated the word 'man' to mean only the Jewish people. So I should not have to prove that.
Secondly; MAN definition
a) generically, to include all human individuals
does not imply the sum (mankind) but rather isolation to each human being one by one and not mixed with other species.

From your train of thought;"Not meaning the Jew" does not automatically default to "mankind" ECR. That's not reasonable.

It's more likely that he meant sabbath was made for human species and not for diety.
It's more likely that he was saying Man was not made for sabbath but sabbath was made for to benefit man.

Trying to say that sabbath was man for all mankind to keep is not what this text implies. No authorized bibles say that. That's my final answer.

Somebody is trying to pull a fast one on people who cant read or understanding too well.
 
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ricker

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Crib, I am failing to understand what difference you are making from what I am saying.. the original statement for this discussion on G444 was, I said that 'man' in Mark 2:24 refered to mankind, meaning not just the Jews. You have done nothing but prove that same point for me. When Jesus said that Sabbath was made for man he wasn't just speaking to the Jews but all of man; as the lexicon says: human being.. all human individuals.

You have not shown anything different... if you can show that the Sabbath was made for the Jewish people only, then please do.

Do you forget about Exodus 31? It says the Sabbath is a sign and covenant between God and Israel. Where do find the sign of the weekly Sabbath observance ever given or transferred to anyone else?
 
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Cribstyl

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Do you forget about Exodus 31? It says the Sabbath is a sign and covenant between God and Israel. Where do find the sign of the weekly Sabbath observance ever given or transferred to anyone else?
:thumbsup: Excellent points Ricker.

If God gave sabbath a sign between Himself and one nation, it would be fraud if He had given it for other nations to also keep it.
If God make a covenant He will keep His promises and His prophets have alway declared what God has obligated Himself and people to do.
 
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k4c

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Do you forget about Exodus 31? It says the Sabbath is a sign and covenant between God and Israel. Where do find the sign of the weekly Sabbath observance ever given or transferred to anyone else?

It's a perpetual sign, in other words it lasts forever. If you're God's people than the Sabbath is for you too. What did Jesus teach regarding keeping the Sabbath holy?
 
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ricker

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It's a perpetual sign, in other words it lasts forever. If you're God's people than the Sabbath is for you too. What did Jesus teach regarding keeping the Sabbath holy?

Many times God uses words meaning "forever" addressing Israel pertaining to things no longer in effect for Christians under the new covenant.


Leviticus 6:1818 Any male descendant of Aaron may eat it. For all generations to come it is his perpetual share of the food offerings presented to the LORD. Whatever touches them will become holy.

Lev. 23: (Festival of Weeks) 21 On that same day you are to proclaim a sacred assembly and do no regular work. This is to be a lasting ordinance for the generations to come, wherever you live.

1 Chr. 23 Aaron was set apart, he and his descendants forever, to consecrate the most holy things, to offer sacrifices before the LORD, to minister before him and to pronounce blessings in his name forever.

Did Jesus say that the weekly Sabbath observance was ever for the Gentiles, too?
 
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