A topic to discuss 2 - The mystery of Eve and the serpent

[Niemander]

I did not write Genesis 4 - but clearly states the existence of many other human beings

Genesis 4

13 Cain said to Yahweh, "My punishment is too great to bear.
14 This Means That You miss me this today and I ground to hide from your Presence, a fugitive and wanderer on the earth, and whoever I Will Kill Finds me. "

If were not others people - who could kill Cain?

15 Lord answered: "On the Contrary, whoever kills Cain, sevenfold him." And the Lord put a mark on Cain so That Should anyone Who found him, not kill him.

And these people of which God speaks?

16 Cain left the Presence of the Lord, and Settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden.
17 Cain knew His Wife and she Gave birth to Enoch.

Does the Bible lie? Where did his wife?

He was building a city, and Called It Enoch, as the name of His son.


18 To Enoch was born Irad, and Irad begat Mejuyael, begat and begat Methuselah Mejuyael Lamech Methuselah.
19 Lamech Took two wives: Adah the first call, and the second chair.

Where did the wives of the sons of Cain?

I agree with what the bible says, but you didn't address the main issue - if God created Adam and Eve - AND Tom and Betty (say) - as you assert, then how do you explain how sin entered the human race through one man, Adam? If as you assert, God also created Tom and Betty... how did sin enter them, who were NOT of Adam?

That is the crux of the issue - Romans 5:12 "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned..."

Adam and Eve are the progenitors of the entire human race, being the first man and woman God created. That much ought to be clear.

Another thing we know is that they lived some 900+ years. That's a long time in which to procreate, and procreate, and procreate - and a long time for those they bore to procreate, and procreate - and their children to procreate... That is how the human race spread - and sin with it. There can be no "Tom and Bettys."

 

[7angel]

I agree with what the bible says, but you didn't address the main issue - if God created Adam and Eve - AND Tom and Betty (say) - as you assert, then how do you explain how sin entered the human race through one man, Adam? If as you assert, God also created Tom and Betty... how did sin enter them, who were NOT of Adam?

That is the crux of the issue - Romans 5:12 "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned..."


Adam and Eve are the progenitors of the entire human race, being the first man and woman God created. That much ought to be clear.

Another thing we know is that they lived some 900+ years. That's a long time in which to procreate, and procreate, and procreate - and a long time for those they bore to procreate, and procreate - and their children to procreate... That is how the human race spread - and sin with it. There can be no "Tom and Bettys."

Romans 5

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into = the world = and death by sin and so death passed upon all men, for all have sinned, Adam?

17 For if by the offense of one, death reigned by one man how much more those who receive abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness reign in life by one, Jesus Christ!

Before Adam and Eve, they were all sinners, but did not know because, unaware of the good and evil.

But you can not grow unless you know both - good and bad - through Adam and Eve was doing the most basic knowledge of good and evil.


18 Thus, as the offense of one brought upon all men to condemnation, so the work of seeking justice for one whole justification that brings life.
19 For just as through the disobedience of one man many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall all be made ​​righteous.

But ... Some people in their freedom, choose evil - because good is believing in Jesus and implement his Gospel is the word of God. .. not enough to say, I believe in God.

Were Adam and Eve two persons-through whom, God shows us all That men - the human race are sinners from the Beginning, today Century 21 we remain sinners for not believ

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Oh my, somebody is all tangled up in the lies of the enemy. Adam the first man, and Eve, the first woman and second human being created by God were builded just like our Father. They were spirit soul and body and covered in the glory of God. God introduced the concept of choice by saying thou should not eat of the tree that is in the middle of the garden.The way I understand it,the serpent had no way to deceive the woman until after the concept of choice was introduced.The, the woman and the man could choose to eat and die, or choose to not eat and not die. It was a case of plain disobedience for Eve to take of the fruit and eat and then give some to Adam. The serpent was a cunning animal who , for whatever reason, became possessed by Satan. I agree that the serpent once walked upright, as the curse of the serpent was to crawl on it's belly. Whether there was a collusion by Satan and the serpent, I don't know, but, it seems plausible to me that such a collusion took place. I agree with 7angel that man did not know good and evil until after they ate from the tree of Knowledge of good and evil. Before they ate, they were sinless.

Another thing that I believe happened is time, and decay. I believe Adam and Eve existed in eternity past, and time , as we know it, did not exist until after the fall. The Bible says that time in Gods sight is different from mortal time as we know it.Of course, this is just my point of view, and no one has been able to convince me otherwise.Adam was 130 years then Seth and other sons and daughters. I cannot imagine what it would have felt to be 130 and having a child, or living 900 years, can any of you? I take the Bible as truth and not allegory except in the case of parables.So if people actully lived to be almost 1000 years old, and human gestational period is about 40 weeks, give or take a week on either side of the 40, there was room for lots and lots of sons and daughters to be born. It is funny how the Bible does not talk about these people except in the case of Cain who took a wife, obviously from among his own family. Obviously also is the propensity of man to wander which is what the name Nod means.

Nod

Nod, or more complete, the Land of Nod, is a region east of Eden to which Cain flees after killing his brother Abel (Genesis 4:16).

The name Nod comes from the verb

(nud) denoting a going back and forth. This verb is used to denote an aimless wandering, the wagging of one's head, or an attitude that may give rise to that, from compassion to mockery.Nod | The amazing name Nod: meaning and etymology

Nowhere does the Bible say that Nod was a city. It could have become a city filled with the descendants of Cain.

Another thing the Bible does not mention is how old Cain was when he knew his wife and begat Enoch.So he could have been two or three hundred years old when he married and had a child.

It's funny how we discount the possibility of Satanic possession of a body today when we observed Lord Jesus casting out spirits an we also saw spirits entering into animals (pigs). So, imho satanic posession of the serpent is highly plausible.

I have another theory about the death incurred in the fall. We always say we are body soul and spirit. It is often said that people only use ten percent of their brain. We have a gland in our brain called the pineal gland which is in atrophy . All kind of new age sites and videos claim to be able to activate the pineal gland, and opening the third eye. Of course we see this in the reported teachings of secret societies. This is all conjecture on my part, but consider this. It is a medical fact that an inoperable tumor develops on overactive pineal glands of people. Do the research. I believe this is what began to atrophy at the fall. It was our spiritual connect with our Father before Christ.Call me crazy, but this is just as plausible as some of the other ideas discussed in this thread.

 

[7angel]

So if people actully lived to be almost 1000 years old, and human gestational period is about 40 weeks, give or take a week on either side of the 40, there was room for lots and lots of sons and daughters to be born. It is funny how the Bible does not talk about these people except in the case of Cain who took a wife, obviously from among his own family.

We're talking about prehistoric man, who could not use fire, or prepare food.
No temptation, what they did was just caused by your needs - biological
Think of infant mortality, and transfer - from parent to children the knowledge they gained almost by accident.
Consider also the reactions of anger and violence that all humans have by nature - fear reactions
In those times, the changes occurred slowly, it took centuries - now - a child of 7 years, absorbing more knowledge than an old man - 200 years ago.
If prehistoric man live an average lifespan of 70 years, would have become extinct


Adam's family, only 4 members, with the death of Abel, were 3.

Cain's wife could not be of his family also met her in other lands, Nod. East of Eden, it means that Eden was a place in this world.

Much later, Adam and Eve had a third son named Seth, - though Adam lived 930 years, his story ends with the birth of Seth

 

[Niemander]

Before Adam and Eve, they were all sinners, but did not know because, unaware of the good and evil.

But you can not grow unless you know both - good and bad - through Adam and Eve was doing the most basic knowledge of good and evil.

There were no "theys" "before Adam and Eve." This is clearly false teaching and thoroughly unbiblical. I don't know who taught this to you, but I would urge you to exit their influence immediately.

And no, it is not necessary to know good and evil to grow. Indeed, the bible is quite clear the knowledge of good and evil is a BAD thing.

You have asserted previously that there were "other pairs" besides Adam and Eve. You cited Cain's fear of being killed by whomever finds him (Gen 4) - incorrectly assuming that because he mentioned other people that those people *must* have come from your imaginary "other pairs" and not Adam and Eve.

This is, among other things, an elementary, basic error in logic.

Moreover, the results of such a basic error lead to what I have pointed out already amounts to "adding to the Word" that which is not there - the basic blasphemy that God created others besides Adam and Eve - indeed as you assert above, BEFORE God created them.

The bible however *is* clear that it was through Adam that sin entered into the world - a sin which entered via one man and spread to all, which sin needed to be atoned for by one man - the Lord Jesus; for all. Romans 5:12-17.

It is important you reason this through and understand the fundamental biblical principles here and how what you've been taught violate them so radically - and blasphemously.

On the face of it, it's as I noted above - a simple error in logic, believing Adam and Eve didn't have more children than Cain and Abel (and much later Seth).

You seem to think Adam didn't have other children besides Cain, Abel, and Seth - but you are clearly mistaken there too - as Genesis 5:4 plainly proves: "4 Then the days of Adam after he became the father of Seth were eight hundred years, and he had other sons and daughters."

The only reason Seth was mentioned was 1) because he replaced (for Eve) her son Abel, and 2) because he is the genealogical predecessor to Noah. This is common Hebrew practice and something seen throughout the bible - the recording of genealogical heritage.



Now I reiterate the nature of the blasphemy you've been taught, that there must have been others besides Adam and Eve. Since the bible is clear that sin entered the world through Adam, and since the bible is clear that Jesus came to address ADAM's sin, if there were others besides Adam then several things must be true:

• Sin did not affect this [presumed] lineage of "other people."
• Adam's sin spread to his offspring, and then to their offspring, and so on.
• With Adam's sin came death, which spread to his offspring as well...
• If this "other pair" of people existed, then they were not thus affected by Adam's sin - and consequently death did not spread to them either.
  [*]If this "other pair" of people existed then, and were not infected by Adam's sin, and the consequences of that sin - DEATH - then the only logical conclusion is that they are still alive today - which of course is a ridiculous conclusion.
  [*]And if not infected by Adam's sin, then Jesus' sacrifice for these "other pairs" of people is (at least for them) unnecessary.
  

I could go on with the blasphemous implications of this false teaching, but I think this sufficiently illustrates the point.

Again, I would urge you to drop this false teaching you've been taught and study this issue more thoroughly with those who are more knowledgeable of the bible and who do not promote this blasphemy.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

So if people actully lived to be almost 1000 years old, and human gestational period is about 40 weeks, give or take a week on either side of the 40, there was room for lots and lots of sons and daughters to be born. It is funny how the Bible does not talk about these people except in the case of Cain who took a wife, obviously from among his own family.

We're talking about prehistoric man, who could not use fire, or prepare food.
No temptation, what they did was just caused by your needs - biological
Think of infant mortality, and transfer - from parent to children the knowledge they gained almost by accident.
Consider also the reactions of anger and violence that all humans have by nature - fear reactions
In those times, the changes occurred slowly, it took centuries - now - a child of 7 years, absorbing more knowledge than an old man - 200 years ago.
If prehistoric man live an average lifespan of 70 years, would have become extinct


Adam's family, only 4 members, with the death of Abel, were 3.

Cain's wife could not be of his family also met her in other lands, Nod. East of Eden, it means that Eden was a place in this world.

Much later, Adam and Eve had a third son named Seth, - though Adam lived 930 years, his story ends with the birth of Seth

The Bible is clear that Adam and Eve had other sons and daughters.

Gen 5:3And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth: 4And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: 4

So if people actully lived to be almost 1000 years old, and human gestational period is about 40 weeks, give or take a week on either side of the 40, there was room for lots and lots of sons and daughters to be born. It is funny how the Bible does not talk about these people except in the case of Cain who took a wife, obviously from among his own family.

We're talking about prehistoric man, who could not use fire, or prepare food.
No temptation, what they did was just caused by your needs - biological
Think of infant mortality, and transfer - from parent to children the knowledge they gained almost by accident.
Consider also the reactions of anger and violence that all humans have by nature - fear reactions
In those times, the changes occurred slowly, it took centuries - now - a child of 7 years, absorbing more knowledge than an old man - 200 years ago.
If prehistoric man live an average lifespan of 70 years, would have become extinct


Adam's family, only 4 members, with the death of Abel, were 3.

Cain's wife could not be of his family also met her in other lands, Nod. East of Eden, it means that Eden was a place in this world.

Much later, Adam and Eve had a third son named Seth, - though Adam lived 930 years, his story ends with the birth of Seth

The Bible is clear that Adam and Eve had other sons and daughters.
Gen.5


4And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:




Now it is perfectly obvious that Cain got his wife from among his own family, but I guess you refuse to see that.

 

[Christownsme]

Isn't God great? Isn't He worth the praise of men? His mercy and love is forever. Amen.

 

[7angel]

The Bible is clear that Adam and Eve had other sons and daughters.

Gen 5:3And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth: 4And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: 4

The Bible is clear that Adam and Eve had other sons and daughters.
Gen.5


4And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:




Now it is perfectly obvious that Cain got his wife from among his own family, but I guess you refuse to see that.

did not write the following: look who did it, pay more Atention

So if people actully lived to be almost 1000 years old, and human gestational period is about 40 weeks, give or take a week on either side of the 40, there was room for lots and lots of sons and daughters to be born. It is funny how the Bible does not talk about these people except in the case of Cain who took a wife, obviously from among his own family.

 

[7angel]

There were no "theys" "before Adam and Eve." This is clearly false teaching and thoroughly unbiblical. I don't know who taught this to you, but I would urge you to exit their influence immediately.

And no, it is not necessary to know good and evil to grow. Indeed, the bible is quite clear the knowledge of good and evil is a BAD thing.

Read calmly
Genesis 3
22 And the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us, as to know good and evil! And now, carefully, put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life and eating him alive forever. "
23 And the Lord God (expelled) him the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

did not necessary to know the good and evil?

22 And the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us - who were these others

Isaiah 7

14 Well, the Lord himself will give you a sign: Behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Emmanuel.
15 will eat curds and honey until you know to refuse evil and choose the good.

did not necessary to know the good and evil?

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Isaiah 7

14 Well, the Lord himself will give you a sign: Behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Emmanuel.
15 will eat curds and honey until you know to refuse evil and choose the good.

did not necessary to know the good and evil?

Here is the KJV translation of these verses.
Isa. 7:14Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. 15Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.



Before the fall, man's righteousness rested in God our Father, just as our righteousness as Christians rest in Lord Jesus Christ. It is our standing before God our Father. What Lord Jesus accomplished for mankind by His death and resurrection was He restored our right standing before God His Father and ours.Adam willfully and knowingly lost our precious connection with Almighty God by eating from the tree that God explicitly told him not to eat from.But, John 3:

16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Wow! That is very good news.

Romans5:6For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.



Lord Jesus Christ is the greatest gift God has given to mankind.But a person will not accept Him because the gospel seems like foolishness to him/her. Therefore the Holy Spiirt must open a person's ears and eyes and heart.


Hebrews 3:15While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

 

[Biker Angel]

The topic of this thread reminded me of the Sonnets From Adam. Here is an except from that series.

Originally posted by DEFUEGO
#3

New wife Eve acts lover to the serpent
I've seen her go to the forbidden tree
And console with the serpent night and day
And the serpent wraps himself around her
Then licks her body with his lying tongue
It breaks my heart to see this happening
But nothing I could do would stop such thing
Since you have said that she will do this wrong
Thus causing me to fall a sorcerer
To call upon the stars to lead my way
Through the black magic of my sorcery
Which to creation bears the testament

That my new wife as well angered the Lord
So now we die commanded by his word.

#4

Give me O Lord another chance to prove
That I am worthy of your sweetest grace
Ignoring now the council of my sin
To stand before your throne with purest heart
Giving to you the praise to you is due
Even though to praise you I'm unworthy
Deserving hell for all eternity
For all transgressions I have done to you
Perfecting sin as though it were an art
Practicing evil time and time again
Until my goodness leaves no goodly trace
Upon the earth where I have killed all love

Give me another chance to prove that I
For your sweet love am willing now to die.

#5

Was I so wrong to love my precious Eve
Even as you yourself also loved me ?
As I in your own image then was made
So Eve was also in my image brought
Flesh of my flesh and bone of my own bone
So how is it that I am now to blame
For joining my fire with hers to one flame
After so many years being alone
Without her warmth and fam'ly we begot
And all those years alone at night I laid
Thinking away my dull eternity
Without a lover in who to believe

And so you made her from my loneliness
To lead me into all unrighteousness.

#8

Fair Eve has been gone from me seven days
Which now seems more like seven thousand years
The loneliness which I alone must bear
As punishment for my rebellious will
Which separation chose itself from you
Amids confusion of my selfishness
Which hinders the scope of my consciousness
And blinding me to what is really true
The view atop of your celestial hill
But now at barren lands and weeds I stare
Which seems more ugly now behind my tears
That flood the valley where my sorrow stays

And until my fair Eve returns to me
Days are longer than nights eternity.

#9

I miss you even more than I miss Eve
Yet now my love for her is ever strong
And she shall return in a few short weeks
But you sometimes I fear I'll never see
And sometimes wonder if I ever saw?
For Eden was for me so long ago
The truth of Eden I no longer know
But it is for your love and perfect law
Which makes me look for your eternity
Beyond the high crests of the tallest peaks
And up to heaven from all earthly wrong
T o you in who my soul needs to believe

And though you hide from me forevermore
I'll always search for heavens creator.