A Third Temple Is A Slap Across Christ's Face.....

[JohnRabbit]

Exactly. It also does not reveal that Jesus will be on earth during the millennium, yet you somehow believe that.

she has good reason to believe just that, because that's what the bible says!

speaking of the Christ's return, the bible says:

Zechariah 14:4 ( NKJV ) 4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,

Which faces Jerusalem on the east.

And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,

From east to west,

Making a very large valley;

Half of the mountain shall move toward the north

And half of it toward the south.

this is where the Christ is going when He returns!

now notice this:

Zechariah 14:16 ( NKJV ) 16And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.

although modern christianity has kicked God's holy days to the curb, God says that in the millennium, that the nations are to come up to jerusalem to worship and keep His feasts!

notice that the people are going to jerusalem to worship the King, Who will be in jerusalem!

 

[JohnRabbit]

His everlasting earthly kingdom will be established after the millennium, on the new earth. Revelation 21

1 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”[a] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4



We will reign on earth forever. The millennium is not "forever". It is limited to a thousand years. How can our everlasting reign be limited to a thousand years? That doesn't make sense.

The martyrs will reign in heaven for a thousand years prior to God's everlasting kingdom being established on earth.

Of course for this to make sense to you, you also have to realize that Jesus' second coming is after the millennium. There are two very clear verses that prove this point.

Acts 3:21 tells us plainly that he must remain in heaven until the time to restore all things, which can only mean the restoration of heaven and earth.

2 Timothy 4:8 tells us that he appears at the time of judging, which we also know happens after the millennium.

Don't ignore those scriptures because you'd prefer him to come back sooner.



Yes, these are the martyrs. Most of us will have to wait until the second resurrection.

I have no disagreement with the rest of your post.

our reign starts on earth (rev 20:6).

there is no scripture in the bible that supports your statement:

"The martyrs will reign in heaven for a thousand years prior to God's everlasting kingdom being established on earth."

if you have a verse to support this, i'd like to see it.


you said:

"His everlasting earthly kingdom will be established after the millennium, on the new earth."

however the bible says:

Revelation 11:15 ( NKJV ) 15Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!”

this happens at the second coming.

at the second coming, Jesus is going to judge the nations!

the judgement that everyone thinks of as the "great White Throne judgement" doesn't happen until after the millennium!

 

[Steve Petersen]

An earthly temple does not preclude a heavenly one and vice versa.

In fact, if you read the first few chapters of Acts you will see that believers were continuously in the Temple and participated in The Prayers.

 

[LastSeven]

But that is not what the revealed word teaches. In the fifth seal the Martyrs are told to wait until the number of their servants is complete. This does not occur in the six seal.

How do you know? I admit it does not specifically tie the two groups together, but logically it would make sense that the group (the multitude) in the sixth seal is the same group as that in the fifth seal.

It is clear that "those" here (in Rev 20) are the tribulation martyrs that were told in Rev. 6 to wait for a bit and here is when they will reign with Christ for the millennium. This happens at the start of the millennium not at the end.

Yes, these are the martyrs that were told to wait. No doubt about that. And yes, this happens at the start of the millennium. I completely agree.

Unfortunately you are jumping the gun here. Jesus restores all things at the beginning of the millennium and then reigns for 1000 years. The restoration referred to is accomplished during the tribulation and effected at the time of Jesus return when He judges the nations (Matt. 25).

I've heard this theory before, but I see nothing in scripture to support it.

Acts 3:21 tells us nothing about a timing of Jesus return.

Again, I respectfully disagree. Acts 3:21 says "Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets."

Verse 20 makes it clear that the "he" in verse 21 is Jesus. "Heaven must receive him" means Jesus goes to heaven. "until the time comes" means he will stay there until a specific time.

So how then can you say that this says nothing about the timing of Jesus' return?

The bible tells us that it happens at the end of the tribulation not at the end of the millennium. Please refer to the judgment of the nations in Matt. 25 which follows directly after the prediction of the tribulation (Matt. 24).

This is where I'm going to surprise you. I agree that it happens at the end of the tribulation. And I also believe that this happens at the end of the millennium. See, Daniel 12:1-2 makes it clear that the tribulation happens after the millennium. There are no contradictions in my statements.

 

[LastSeven]

she has good reason to believe just that, because that's what the bible says!

speaking of the Christ's return, the bible says:

Zechariah 14:4 ( NKJV ) 4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,

Which faces Jerusalem on the east.

And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,

From east to west,

Making a very large valley;

Half of the mountain shall move toward the north

And half of it toward the south.

this is where the Christ is going when He returns!

now notice this:

Zechariah 14:16 ( NKJV ) 16And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.

although modern christianity has kicked God's holy days to the curb, God says that in the millennium, that the nations are to come up to jerusalem to worship and keep His feasts!

notice that the people are going to jerusalem to worship the King, Who will be in jerusalem!

I understand your reasoning but it is flawed. Your entire argument depends on the assumption that Jesus comes back and sets his feet on the mount before the millennium, when in fact he does not do that until after the millennium.

If you need me to support my statement with scripture, just ask.

 

[LastSeven]

our reign starts on earth (rev 20:6).
there is no scripture in the bible that supports your statement:

"The martyrs will reign in heaven for a thousand years prior to God's everlasting kingdom being established on earth."

if you have a verse to support this, i'd like to see it.

No verse specifically says they will reign in heaven during that time, but other verses do support this idea and I'll get to those in a moment. In the mean time, let's also admit that no single verse says that they will reign on earth during that time. (verses that speak of God's earthly kingdom do not count because these refer to the time after the millennium)

you said:

"His everlasting earthly kingdom will be established after the millennium, on the new earth."

however the bible says:

Revelation 11:15 ( NKJV ) 15Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!”

this happens at the second coming.

at the second coming, Jesus is going to judge the nations!

the judgment that everyone thinks of as the "great White Throne judgement" doesn't happen until after the millennium!

Those verses do not disagree with my statement. If they did I would be forced to recant. Of course he will establish his kingdom on earth. The Bible is very clear on that. But how can we determine the timing of that earthly kingdom?

Well, we could simply go with the crowd and keep preaching the same wishful thinking that I've been hearing since childhood, which is "Jesus comes back before the millennium" without having any scripture to back this up.

Or we could see what scripture actually says.

See my next post

 

[JohnRabbit]

I understand your reasoning but it is flawed. Your entire argument depends on the assumption that Jesus comes back and sets his feet on the mount before the millennium, when in fact he does not do that until after the millennium.

If you need me to support my statement with scripture, just ask.

i'm asking.

 

[JohnRabbit]

No verse specifically says they will reign in heaven during that time, but other verses do support this idea and I'll get to those in a moment. In the mean time, let's also admit that no single verse says that they will reign on earth during that time. (verses that speak of God's earthly kingdom do not count because these refer to the time after the millennium)



Those verses do not disagree with my statement. If they did I would be forced to recant. Of course he will establish his kingdom on earth. The Bible is very clear on that. But how can we determine the timing of that earthly kingdom?

Well, we could simply go with the crowd and keep preaching the same wishful thinking that I've been hearing since childhood, which is "Jesus comes back before the millennium" without having any scripture to back this up.

Or we could see what scripture actually says.

See my next post

Daniel 2:44 ( NKJV ) 44And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.

"in the days of these kings"

figure out when this time is and you'll have your answer!

 

[LastSeven]

First the most obvious scriptures which I've already mentioned here a few times, yet few seem willing to accept.

Acts 3:21 Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.

Heaven must receive Jesus until the time to restore all things. The time for the new heaven and new earth fits that description better than any other time I can imagine. Which, if I'm right, means that Jesus will stay in heaven until after the millennium.

2 Timothy 4:8
Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.

This verse ties together the time of judging with the time of his appearing. Since Revelation 20 is clear that judging happens after the millennium, we can see that Jesus' appearing will also happen after the millennium. There is no other time of judging mentioned in the Bible. (Please don't try to convince me of a bema seat judgment because it's not Biblical)

There is one time of judging for both the righteous and the wicked. If you need me to back up that statement with scripture, just ask.

Zechariah 14:4-9 ties the time of his return to the time of the new earth.

4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. 5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake[a] in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.

6 On that day there will be neither sunlight nor cold, frosty darkness. 7 It will be a unique day—a day known only to the LORD—with no distinction between day and night. When evening comes, there will be light.

8 On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it east to the Dead Sea and half of it west to the Mediterranean Sea, in summer and in winter.

9 The LORD will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one LORD, and his name the only name.

This is the description of Jesus' return to earth to establish his everlasting earthly kingdom.

Verse 7 makes it clear that this is the day of the Lord "a day known only to the Lord" Verses 6 and 8 make it clear that this earth is the new/renewed earth. On that day there will be no sunlight, no day time and no night time. Living water will flow out from Jerusalem to the east and west. These descriptions are also found in Revelation 22 when John describes the new Jerusalem on the new Earth.

Zechariah 14 describes the return of Jesus' and then uses the same language to describe earth as John uses to describe the new earth in Revelation 22. Does that not make a light bulb go on? It sure does for me.

Let's continue...

Mankind has been on this earth for almost 6,000 years. A total of 7,000 years would make a complete set of seven millenniums. The last millennium is the Sabbath millennium. Our time of rest without Satan. It is only after the set of sevens that we have Jubilee year as per Leviticus 25. The Jubilee year is the time to restore all things. Which is exactly what Acts 3:21 is also talking about.

The Book of Revelation

The book of Revelation can not be read sequentially as we would normally do. The reason most people believe that Jesus comes before the millennium is simply because of the order in which the events are described in Revelation.

It describes the seals/trumpets/bowls the harvest and all that stuff before it even mentions the millennium. So naturally we think it all happens before the millennium. But if that is so, then how do we reconcile the scriptures I mentioned above? We can't. Because they contradict.

So we have to either change or ignore the meaning of those scriptures, or Revelation has to have been written in a slightly confusing manner. I'm going to show you that the latter is likely.

Revelation 20 is the key chapter. This chapter is not a continuation of chapter 19, but rather is a summary of chapters 6 to 19. It speaks of three main points.

1. Satan entering the Abyss
2. The martyrs being resurrected
3. Satan being released from the Abyss.

The first point is not mentioned anywhere else in Revelation. The second point is depicted at the breaking of the sixth seal (the great multitude). Yes, I know this is impossible to prove but it makes sense. The third point is depicted at the blowing of the fifth trumpet.

The Abyss

The only description of Satan being put away for the millennium is in the summary of chapter 20.

1 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him

And in Revelation 9 we also see an angel with the key to the abyss. Except this time he lets an evil entity out of the abyss.

The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss. 2 When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace.
...
They had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon and in Greek is Apollyon (that is, Destroyer).

So in one chapter we see an angel being locked inside the abyss (by another angel), and in another chapter we see an angel being released from the abyss (by another angel).

Even though the release is mentioned first, and the lockup mentioned second, how can they not be talking about the same prisoner? What other prisoner in the abyss will be granted a day pass? Only Satan.

The sixth seal, as I mentioned, I believe to be the resurrection of the martyrs which signals the start of the millennium.

The seventh seal is a time of rest, which represents the millennium itself.

Everything else (the trumpets and bowls) take place after the millennium. Have your Bible handy. And try not to hang on too tight to everything you were ever told. Instead just see what makes sense and what does not make sense. Good or bad.

The Seventh Trumpet

Our resurrection/transformation (which most people refer to as the rapture event) happens just before the seventh trumpet sounds.

Revelation 10:6-7 "There will be no more delay! But in the days when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be accomplished".

Just before the seventh trumpet sounds, the mystery will be accomplished. The mystery of God is the final resurrection and transformation of the righteous into eternal life. This is the culmination of God's master plan for humanity.

1 Corinthians 2:7 No, we declare God’s wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.

1 Corinthians 15:51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—

Now, let’s try to establish when, in relation to other events, is the seventh trumpet blown.

When the seventh trumpet blows, Revelation tells us three things.

1. The kingdom of God begins and he will reign forever and ever.
2. God’s wrath has come.
3. Time for the judging of the dead.

So we see that God’s everlasting kingdom begins when the seventh trumpet blows, which means that for this to happen before the millennium, the millennium must be (a part of) God’s everlasting kingdom. But can God’s everlasting kingdom begin when we know that Satan will be released again in a thousand years? How is that possible? How is it possible for Satan to be released into God’s perfect kingdom?

And since we know that God’s kingdom is to last “forever and ever” we can not put a thousand year limit on it. In other words, it’s impossible to reconcile God’s kingdom beginning before Satan is released from his prison to deceive the nations. Using simple logic we can see that the millennium is not God’s kingdom and God’s kingdom must begin after Satan is done away with, after the millennium.

But if that’s not enough, we also know that the judging of the dead (which happens at the 7th trumpet) happens after Satan is thrown into the lake of fire. And, at the time of judging, “death and Hades” are thrown into the lake of fire, so there is no more death after the time of judging which begins when the seventh trumpet blows. How then can this trumpet blow before the millennium?

We know that Satan will bring the armies of the earth against Jerusalem after the millennium, but if there is no more death, then what’s the point? If you can’t kill anyone, why have an army? This proves that when Satan is released from his prison after the millennium death has not yet been thrown into the lake of fire. Which means that the seventh trumpet can not have blown before the millennium.

Now let’s see how the harvest and wrath fit into all of this.

Revelation 14:14-19. This passage describes the “harvest of the earth” and the “grapes of wrath”. The harvest of the earth is the second resurrection. This happens just before the seventh trumpet is blown. Then the harvest of the grapes happens just after the seventh trumpet is blown. We know this because the description of the grapes being trampled is a description of the pouring out of God's seven bowls of wrath. The seven bowls are God's wrath. Not the seals or the trumpets, only the bowls. So the seventh trumpet blows just after our resurrection/transformation and before wrath.

Now notice the similarities between the grapes of wrath and what happens to Satan after the millennium.

The Grapes of Wrath

Notice when the grapes of wrath are gathered, they are "trampled in the winepress outside the city" (Revelation 14:20). When the beast and his armies are defeated by Jesus (after Satan had been released from his prison) they had "surrounded the city". In this description in Revelation 20:7-10, it is explained that fire comes down from heaven and devours them. This fire is the sharp sickle that harvests the grapes of wrath.

Notice also in the description of the grapes being trampled in the winepress that it relates the depth of the blood to "horses bridles". The horses are representative of an army. Clearly when the grapes are trampled outside the city it is an army surrounding the city. Just as depicted in Revelation 20:7-10.

So the description of the grapes being trampled in the winepress of God’s wrath is the same event described in Revelation 20, which we know happens after the millennium.

The Battle of Armageddon is similarly depicted several different ways in Revelation.

The Battle of Armageddon

The Battle of Armageddon is referenced three times in the book of Revelation.

The first reference to the battle of Armageddon is in Revelation 16:12-16

12 Then the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great Euphrates River, and it dried up so that the kings from the east could march their armies toward the west without hindrance. 13 And I saw three evil[a] spirits that looked like frogs leap from the mouths of the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet. 14 They are demonic spirits who work miracles and go out to all the rulers of the world to gather them for battle against the Lord on that great judgment day of God the Almighty. 15 “Look, I will come as unexpectedly as a thief! Blessed are all who are watching for me, who keep their clothing ready so they will not have to walk around naked and ashamed.” 16 And the demonic spirits gathered all the rulers and their armies to a place with the Hebrew name Armageddon.

“Armageddon” is the Hebrew word for “Megiddo” which is a place about 100 km north of Jerusalem. This is where they gather to prepare for battle. Not where the battle itself happens.

Notice that verse 14 says it happens on the great judgment day. This is a huge clue, wouldn't you say? We know that judgment day happens after the millennium, so how can we say that this event does not?

The second reference to this battle is in Revelation 19:19. Here the word Armageddon is not used but the description is the same.

Revelation 19:19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to make war against the rider on the horse and his army.

The third reference to this battle is in Revelation 20:7-10. This description is clear that the battle happens after the thousand years are over.

Revelation 20:7-10 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves.

In all three references, Satan gathers all the armies of the earth and marches against Jerusalem. Clearly they are all describing the same event.

Now if all of that does not prove that I may be onto something here, then you must not have read this entire post.

 

[Douggg]

My personal view is that Christians should not participate for or against the Jews rebuilding their temple. But observe with heighten interest because the rebuilding of the temple is a critical part of the end-times picture.

Doug L.

 

[LastSeven]

Daniel 2:44 ( NKJV ) 44And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.

"in the days of these kings"

figure out when this time is and you'll have your answer!

Oh, I have my answer, thank you. His kingdom already exists. God began to set up his kingdom when Jesus died and rose again. Currently however, our King is in heaven and it is when he comes down when he will rule over his kingdom on Earth.

For the sake of simplicity I refer to his establishment of his kingdom as the time that he comes down to rule it, although technically it has already been established in our hearts.

 

[LastSeven]

I forgot one more thing that supports my claim that the trumpets and bowls take place after the millennium.

When the seventh bowl is poured out, God says “it is done!”. It can not be done if Satan still has some cards to play. It can only be done when it is all done. That is irrefutable.

Therefore, the seventh bowl can not be poured out before the millennium. It has to happen after the millennium.

 

[JohnRabbit]

Oh, I have my answer, thank you. His kingdom already exists. God began to set up his kingdom when Jesus died and rose again. Currently however, our King is in heaven and it is when he comes down when he will rule over his kingdom on Earth.

For the sake of simplicity I refer to his establishment of his kingdom as the time that he comes down to rule it, although technically it has already been established in our hearts.

what about this verse:

John 3:3 ( NKJV ) 3Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”


can you see the kingdom of God? if so describe it to me.

and this:

John 3:8 ( NKJV ) 8The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

do you know of anyone walking around now that is composed of spirit? if so attach a picture to one of your posts so that i can see that person myself.

with those two verses and dan 2:44, you still want to go with what your saying?

do you understand the prophecy of daniel 2?

 

[Hentenza]

How do you know? I admit it does not specifically tie the two groups together, but logically it would make sense that the group (the multitude) in the sixth seal is the same group as that in the fifth seal.

You lost me here. I see no "multitude" in the sixth seal text. Here is Rev. 6:12-17 (NASB).

12I looked when He broke the sixth seal, and there was a great (AI)earthquake; and the (AJ)sun became black as (AK)sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became like blood; 13and (AL)the stars of the sky fell to the earth, (AM)as a fig tree casts its unripe figs when shaken by a great wind.
14(AN)The sky was split apart like a scroll when it is rolled up, and (AO)every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15Then (AP)the kings of the earth and the great men and the [c]commanders and the rich and the strong and every slave and free man hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains;
16and they (AQ)said to the mountains and to the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him (AR)who sits on the throne, and from the (AS)wrath of the Lamb;
17for (AT)the great day of their wrath has come, and (AU)who is able to stand?"

Yes, these are the martyrs that were told to wait. No doubt about that. And yes, this happens at the start of the millennium. I completely agree.

I'm glad that we can agree.

I've heard this theory before, but I see nothing in scripture to support it.

Isaiah 11:1-10.

Again, I respectfully disagree. Acts 3:21 says "Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets."

Verse 20 makes it clear that the "he" in verse 21 is Jesus. "Heaven must receive him" means Jesus goes to heaven. "until the time comes" means he will stay there until a specific time.

So how then can you say that this says nothing about the timing of Jesus' return?

I see why you are getting confused here. The NIV (which you cited) renders the verse as:

21 Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.

While a literal rendition is:

21(A)whom heaven must receive until the period of (B)restoration of all things about which (C)God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time. (NASB)

21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began. (NKJV)

1 Heaven must welcome [a] Him until the times of the restoration of all things, which God spoke about by the mouth of His holy prophets from the beginning. (Holman).

21whom it behoveth heaven, indeed, to receive till times of a restitution of all things, of which God spake through the mouth of all His holy prophets from the age. (YLT).

ὃν δεῖ οὐρανὸν μὲν δέξασθαι ἄχρι χρόνων ἀποκαταστάσεως πάντων ὧν ἐλάλησεν ὁ θεὸς διὰ στόματος πάντων, ἁγίων αὐτοῦ προφητῶν ἀπ' αἰῶνος (Greek)

The emphasis is in the restoration of all things based on the word given to the prophets not of the restoration of all things beyond what God told the prophets. See the difference? The word ἀποκαταστάσεως (restore, restitution) only occurs here but the verb that it is derived from occurs 8 times in the NT. The concept is one of "restoring things to its former situation" as restoring a strained or dislocated limb to its former state. Matthew uses the verb in 12:13 to show the 'restored' hand as being the same as the other. This noun does not impart a sense of restoring things to newness as in what the New Jerusalem and the new earth will be but to the way it was prior to the fall. Basically to restore things as they were in the garden. That is consistent with the millennium reign of Christ where the animals are docile, and food is plentiful.

This is where I'm going to surprise you. I agree that it happens at the end of the tribulation. And I also believe that this happens at the end of the millennium. See, Daniel 12:1-2 makes it clear that the tribulation happens after the millennium. There are no contradictions in my statements.

We are definitely going to disagree here. You might want to explain your reasoning here since it is not consistent with Daniel 12.

 

[Hentenza]

what about this verse:

John 3:3 ( NKJV ) 3Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”


can you see the kingdom of God? if so describe it to me.

and this:

John 3:8 ( NKJV ) 8The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

do you know of anyone walking around now that is composed of spirit? if so attach a picture to one of your posts so that i can see that person myself.

with those two verses and dan 2:44, you still want to go with what your saying?

do you understand the prophecy of daniel 2?

Not to mention that in the Lord's prayer we pray for His kingdom to come.

 

[LastSeven]

what about this verse:

John 3:3 ( NKJV ) 3Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”


can you see the kingdom of God? if so describe it to me.

and this:

John 3:8 ( NKJV ) 8The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

do you know of anyone walking around now that is composed of spirit? if so attach a picture to one of your posts so that i can see that person myself.

with those two verses and dan 2:44, you still want to go with what your saying?

do you understand the prophecy of daniel 2?

Rather than only asking rhetorical questions, why don't you also state your point so that there's no confusion on what you're trying to say.

Can I see the Kingdom of God? Really? Don't you know what Jesus said? “The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, 21 nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is in your midst.”[a"

Your question about being able to see spirits baffles me. Why are you asking me this?

 

[LastSeven]

You lost me here. I see no "multitude" in the sixth seal text. Here is Rev. 6:12-17 (NASB).

Read a little bit further. The multitude is spoken of in chapter 7 verse 9. This is still part of the sixth seal.

I see why you are getting confused here. The NIV (which you cited) renders the verse as:

21 Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.

While a literal rendition is:

The emphasis is in the restoration of all things based on the word given to the prophets not of the restoration of all things beyond what God told the prophets. See the difference? The word ἀποκαταστάσεως (restore, restitution) only occurs here but the verb that it is derived from occurs 8 times in the NT. The concept is one of "restoring things to its former situation" as restoring a strained or dislocated limb to its former state. Matthew uses the verb in 12:13 to show the 'restored' hand as being the same as the other. This noun does not impart a sense of restoring things to newness as in what the New Jerusalem and the new earth will be but to the way it was prior to the fall. Basically to restore things as they were in the garden. That is consistent with the millennium reign of Christ where the animals are docile, and food is plentiful.

And now I see why you are getting confused. Thanks for the explanation. However, even with the meaning of "restore" as you describe it I still see that as referring to the "new" Earth as the new Earth is really just a "renewed/restored" Earth.

Even if we can't agree on this verse, don't you see that 2 Timothy 4:8 also supports my position and not yours? How do you explain that one away?

 

[LastSeven]

I said:

Daniel 12:1-2 makes it clear that the tribulation happens after the millennium. There are no contradictions in my statements.

Then you said:

We are definitely going to disagree here. You might want to explain your reasoning here since it is not consistent with Daniel 12.

Here is the passage in question

1 “At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. 2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

My reasoning is simple. Here the angel is speaking of the same time of great distress that Jesus warns about in Matthew 24, agreed?

Then he says that "at that time"
1. Everyone whose name is found in the book will be delivered (time of judgment).
2. Multitudes who sleep in the dust will awake (second resurrection).

These two points are part of the same event obviously because at the second resurrection, the books are opened which determine who will be delivered and who will not. (The books are not opened prior to the millennium, so this is your first clue)

The other reason that proves he is speaking of the second resurrection is the fact that he says this resurrection includes both righteous and wicked people. He says "some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt".

Which of the two resurrections includes both righteous and wicked? Only the second resurrection. The first resurrection is only for the martyrs.

So putting two and two together we can see that the time of great distress happens at the time of the second resurrection. Which we know happens after the millennium.

Simple.

 

[Hentenza]

Read a little bit further. The multitude is spoken of in chapter 7 verse 9. This is still part of the sixth seal.

Brother, words have meaning. Rev. 7 begins with the words "After this" which naturally means that it is after the vision of the sixth seal. Revelation does not follow a strict chronology but there is a general order observed.

And now I see why you are getting confused. Thanks for the explanation. However, even with the meaning of "restore" as you describe it I still see that as referring to the "new" Earth as the new Earth is really just a "renewed/restored" Earth.

And yet, no prophet of old ever prophesied a New Heavens and a new earth consequently it is beyond the context of Acts 3.

Even if we can't agree on this verse, don't you see that 2 Timothy 4:8 also supports my position and not yours? How do you explain that one away?

I don't brother. The crown is a reward given at judgment ("At that day" Matt. 25).

 

[Brak]

From my reading of the last page or so, it sounds like everyone is in agreement that these things are going to happen at some FUTURE point in time. Yet the OP title says "The Third Temple *IS* a slap in Christ's face". As if it's a foregone concluson and Satan has already won. Why be so resigned to your fate? There is no Third Temple yet. If it is a desecration to God, stand up and don't let it be built. Who has won the victory here: Satan or Jesus? Did you know that Jews tried to rebuild the Temple back in 363AD, and even secular accounts say that fire came out of the ground and swallowed them up? Look it up: Roman Emperor Julian.