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A struggling Christian

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ThankUJesus

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Can anyone please help me? I was a Christian not too long ago and I am really not sure that I believe anymore:( . I used to, but I see all this evidence from the athiest point of view and they have SO much evidence to show and prove. Please, if there are any Christians out there, can you please help me try to believe again, if you have good enough arguments. I find myself torn apart from different point of views and paths I should go down.

The main things I really want to know are:
1) How can we prove that Jesus lived, and if He really did perform all of those miracles?

2) An explanation of Adam and Eve vs. evolution (specificaly carbon dating and how they date rocks or fossils to be over 1 million years old, when it is said that we are only about 7,000 years old).

3) How can we believe in a VERY old book that we cant prove true?

Please, i am really in need for answers, i just want to know FOR SURE what i believe. I have been struggling too long with this, i just need some straight forward answers:( .
 

Digit

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This again. Ok, look, there are a few things here. First up, you are letting people argue you into and out of religion. That's not the way it should be, that will at the very best ping-pong you between various degress of ignorance.

Your last line reflects this, as you are confused you don't know what you believe.

Please, i am really in need for answers, i just want to know FOR SURE what i believe.


The answers to your three questions don't matter in the slightest. The spiritual cannot be proven with the physical, just like I cannot prove the emotional with the physical. Eventually it comes down to faith. For example, my wife says she loves me. I believe her through her actions, yet I cannot prove it. She may not love me, it may be a trick, she may be lying and then acting another way, there is no way to prove it. Proof is not everything, as Atheists would have you believe. I am quite content not-knowing some things which are out of my reach, like why God created us, who created God and how did everything come to be. We don't need answers to those things in order to have faith. Faith is believing in that which we cannot necessarily prove, it's taking a leap where there may not be solid ground underfoot.

Lets take point number two as an example. First up, dating is based on assumptions. Assumptions that the radioactive decay is constant, and has never changed and a few others. Second of all, not all dating methods agree. If a doctor measure the blood sugar level, he can do so with any number of techniques and they will return the same result, yet dating doesn't. Some do, but some don't, yet all are relied on and then museum samples are often 'given' dates by the scientists that file them away. The reports have fields on them that say, "Expected age:" etc. If we can rely on dating, why is there room for dictation here. Another point is that some believe that God created the Earth with embedded age. Another is that the Earth really is that old and that God used evolution to form life. There are dozens more, and none of them are important enough to rest your entire faith and belief on, because they change and fluctuate rapidly. What was 'fact' yesterday, is 'theory' today. I use the word theory in the sense of something believed to be true, but not proveable. A common argument from Atheists is that theory is the scientific version of a fact, like the theory of gravity, it's well supported, to the point that is has become accepted.

Do you see what I mean? If you are relying on other people's beliefs, you are never going to find out what you believe yourself. Only you can do that. Here are things I know:

1) God lives. I feel Him in my life and know His actions.
2) The Bible, regardless of how improbably or impossible it may seems, talks the truth about our world. I don't understand all of it, but the bits I have understood, I know to be true because I can see how they work in my life, and if they are true, then I have reason to believe that the rest is too.
3) I have no idea how we were created, whether literally via God's hands, or metaphorically through evolution, or 'magicked' into existance by a giant rabbit. I do know however, that it doesn't matter based on 1) and 2). Because there are more important things to worry about, than spend my time arguing with people.

You will find those in life who are genuinely interested, confused or angry about religion, and they have been mislead and those are people I believe it worth spending time on. Then you have those who enjoy arguing with others, and have their text-books and science reports and their world revolves around being right. My advice, is to focus on the former, and leave the latter alone.

There was a great question posed to Ricky Gumble, author of the Alpha Course (Chrisitan 101-like course) where he went to witness at a campus, and a guy asked him some questions. Literally dozens of questions: Can he disprove evolution? How can he prove Jesus was divine? Why does the Bible say the world is flat? How is the virgin birth possible? and on and on, and after he was finished, Ricky's friend asked the man if they could answer all his questions to his satisfaction, would he become a Christian. "No." replied the man. "Next?" said Ricky's friend.

It isn't worth the time my friend, focus on you, and your Christian walk with God, why you are a Christian and what it means to you, don't let the wolves throw you off-track.

Cheers,
Digit
 
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wnwall

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1) How can we prove that Jesus lived, and if He really did perform all of those miracles?

There are those who try to deny that Jesus lived, but I find the claim that Jesus never existed to be one of the most ridiculous claims I've ever heard. Just look at the impact he left. No one denies Pythagoras existed. Yet his story is much the same: He was the leader of a philosophical movement that is often considered to have been a small religion, he never wrote anything down (at least nothing that has been preserved), we only know of his existence through his followers and the impact he made on the world... And he made a much smaller impact than Jesus.

I think Jesus' death on the cross is just as obvious. All early Christians agreed Jesus died on a cross. We have the writings of some of his closest friends who knew him while he was alive, such as Peter, John, Matthew, and James. All of them confirm Jesus' crucifixion. Furthermore, we have the writings of Paul, who while he didn't know Jesus before his death, did write letters to people who probably would have known Jesus before the crucifixion. Although there is disagreement over whether the writings of people like John and Matthew are authentic, almost no one denies Paul's writings are authentic and come from the early to middle first century. It is clear in Paul's writings that the early Christians all believed Jesus was crucified, and many of these people would have been witnesses.

So Jesus' life and death are plainly obvious. But his miracles and resurrection are what separate him from anyone who has ever lived, so that's the part that matters most. And again, I think Paul's writings are the most convincing historical sources we have for proving Jesus' resurrection. And I think there is more than sufficient proof from Paul's writings and the writings of those who knew him that Jesus did die and was resurrected.

Do you remember the account of Paul's conversion in the book of Acts? Acts was written by Luke, who was a traveling companion of Paul. So in Acts we have an account given from someone who traveled with Paul, knew him well, and knew the difference Christ had made in his life.

When we first meet Paul in Acts, his name is Saul, he's a Pharisee, and he is taking part in the murder of one of the first Christian martyrs.
Then they cast Stephen out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their garments at the feet of a young man named Saul. And as they were stoning Stephen, he called out, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." And falling to his knees he cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them." (Acts 7:58-60).
In the next chapter we see that Paul is throwing Christians in jail. And he was on his way to Damascus to find more Christians to throw in jail when something remarkable happened. Jesus appeared to Paul in a bright light and turned him completely around.

People may try to dispute whether Jesus actually appeared to Paul, but there are some things here that cannot be disputed which make Paul's testimony very persuasive. Firstly, we know Paul was a Pharisee. Not only did Luke write about it, but Paul confirmed it himself in his own writings. Secondly, we know Paul was an active persecutor of the early church, again Paul confirmed it in his own writings. Thirdly, we know something happened that made Paul go from being a persecutor of the early church and hater of Christians, to becoming a Christian himself. It is clear Paul was accepted by the early church from the fact that Peter accepted Paul (we know this from both Acts and Peter's own writings) and we also know the church as a whole accepted Paul because he wrote letters to the early church and they were accepted as the words of an apostle and preserved.

It is beyond comprehension to me that Paul would make up his conversion experience and then convert to Christianity after having actively persecuted the church and be accepted by the other apostles and the church as a whole. Not only that, Paul endured great suffering and was crucified for his belief. Something very dramatic happened to turn Paul around.

To give you an idea of just how much Paul suffered for the sake of Christ, take a look at what he wrote in one of his letters to the church in Corinth,
Five times I received at the hands of the Jews the forty lashes less one. Three times I was beaten with rods. Once I was stoned. Three times I was shipwrecked; a night and a day I was adrift at sea; on frequent journeys, in danger from rivers, danger from robbers, danger from my own people, danger from Gentiles, danger in the city, danger in the wilderness, danger at sea, danger from false brothers; in toil and hardship, through many a sleepless night, in hunger and thirst, often without food, in cold and exposure. And, apart from other things, there is the daily pressure on me of my anxiety for all the churches (2 Corinthians 11:24-28).
And this is not at all an exhaustive list. There are few who have suffered as much as Paul for the sake of Christ, as Jesus himself said would be the case, "I will show him how much he must suffer for the sake of my name" (Acts 9:16). And Paul stayed loyal to Jesus through it all. Not only that, Paul can often be found rejoicing in his sufferings for the sake of Christ.
Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church (Colossians 1:24).

It is my eager expectation and hope that I will not be at all ashamed, but that with full courage now as always Christ will be honored in my body, whether by life or by death. For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain (Philipians 1:20-21).

Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong (2 Corinthians 12:9-10).

We rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts (Romans 5:3-5).
Paul's story is remarkable. To go from being someone who hated Christians and persecuted them to someone as devoted as he was, gladly enduring suffering for Christ's name and even eager to be martyred so he could join Jesus and be in his company.

And not only him, we see this kind of dedication in every one of the apostles. It makes no sense that Jesus would be killed, the apostles would scatter, and then the apostles would come back suddenly willing to suffer and die for someone who they had seen die... unless Jesus was resurrected. All of their testimonies speak wonders, and I find the testimony of Paul to be the silver bullet. His hatred of the early church cannot be denied, and his later radical dedication to Christ is confirmed by his own letters as well as the writings of others. Something incredible happened to Paul on his way to Damascus.

2) An explanation of Adam and Eve vs. evolution (specificaly carbon dating and how they date rocks or fossils to be over 1 million years old, when it is said that we are only about 7,000 years old).

This debate, I think, is often, sadly, overemphasized by the Christian side. I believe the debate over Jesus' death and resurrection is ten thousand times more important, and I believe there is more than sufficient evidence for his death and resurrection. Jesus' resurrection is the key event in all of Christendom. If it happened, then Jesus is Lord and his testimony is true. If it did not happen, then we can pack it up and go home. The focus should be on the resurrection, so keep your eyes on that. You can worry about evolution later.

Personally, I see no contradiction between evolution and the Bible, so long as you understand that evolution is simply the theory that species evolve. The big bang and evolution are completely separate theories (as any well studied atheist will admit), and the theory of abiogenesis (the spontaneous origin of life) and evolution are also completely different theories. Evolution is simply the theory of how species change over time. With that in mind, there is nothing in the Bible which says species do not evolve over time, therefore there is no contradiction between evolution and the Bible.

However, that is not to say Adam and Eve evolved from apes. I think God created Adam and Eve separately from other animals, and I also think God created many species separately from each other. However, I also think new species have been evolving since that time. I think of evolution as a part of God's creation. God created species so that they could evolve.

That means I also believe creation happened roughly 6 to 10,000 years ago, which means I need to account for things like carbon dating and the apparent age of stars. If you ask any biblical preacher why the universe is so big, he will without hesitation tell you the enormous size of the universe is meant to be a pointer to the magnificence and glory of God. By creating such a huge universe, God is telling a sort of parable: Man is small and insignificant; God is huge and glorious. I think the apparent age of the universe is supposed to remind us of the same thing. When we look at stars that are millions of light years away, we aren't only supposed to think of how enormously glorious God is, we are also supposed to think of God's eternality. I think God created stars millions of light years away to declare his gloriously supreme worth in both his grandeur and his timelessness.

3) How can we believe in a VERY old book that we cant prove true?
Again, the central focus should be Jesus' death and resurrection. If Jesus rose from the dead, the book is true because it is his word that he gave to his apostles and prophets. If Jesus did not rise from the dead, the book is not true. Keep your eyes on Jesus.

I would be thrilled to talk about this some more and to try to answer any other questions you have. Feel free to message me any time.

God bless,
Nathan
 
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Lukaris

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MelissaShae

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I have not seen any evidence from any atheist that disproves Christianity. I see only their opinions not actual proof. Satan will use people to keep you away from God and he will make it seem like those people know what they are talking about. He will twist things to make you see them his way. Don't let this happen to you. Go to God with your doubts and fears.
 
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ebia

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Can anyone please help me? I was a Christian not too long ago and I am really not sure that I believe anymore:( . I used to, but I see all this evidence from the athiest point of view and they have SO much evidence to show and prove. Please, if there are any Christians out there, can you please help me try to believe again, if you have good enough arguments. I find myself torn apart from different point of views and paths I should go down.

The main things I really want to know are:
1) How can we prove that Jesus lived, and if He really did perform all of those miracles?

Most serious scholars accept that Jesus really did live (and was crucified)- there is more evidence for his life than for Tiberius Caesar (Roman emperor at the same time). On the other hand you wouldn't expect to be able to produce independent, physical evidence for each and every miracle. The real question is whether the gospels are reliable accounts of his life, death and resurrection. If he wasn't ressurected you then have to answer some serious questions about why his followers would make it up rather than just abanding him as yet another failed messiah (one among many). If he was resurrected, that vindicates the rest.




2) An explanation of Adam and Eve vs. evolution (specificaly carbon dating and how they date rocks or fossils to be over 1 million years old, when it is said that we are only about 7,000 years old).
Genesis 1-3 is literature to explain the relationship between us, God, and creation. It's not intended to be 20th century science. As such it's not incompatible with scientific explanations of the mechanics of creation.




3) How can we believe in a VERY old book that we cant prove true?
You don't believe a book because you have proved every fact in it true (if you've done that you don't need the book anymore), you trust a book because it comes from a reliable source.
 
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Digit

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Wow.
Thank you guys. You all taught me that what I am troubled with is not important, whats important is that I have to believe in Jesus and that He died and rose for me. I do appreciate your comments and they have helped me a lot. Thank you.

God bless!
Hey ThankUJesus,

I would just like to clarify something, which is that the things which are troubling you may still be important simply because they are troubling you, my point was that they are not points on which I would rest my faith on, purely because these things are not static. We find new information regularly. They should be the branches of your faith, rather than the roots. :)

I still believe it's ok to look into them, and to form an opinion or view but they are quite complicated subjects, so be prepared to really research them. Just remember that "I don't know." is a perfectly acceptable answer, unless someone believes they know absolutely everything and I only know one person who does. God.

I'm glad you feel better though, all the best and keep well! :)

Cheers,
Digit
 
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ThankUJesus

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Thank you Digit.
I actually have been researching since I created this thread, and i have found a lot of information on those many "branches" as you call them, but i would like to regain my spiritual life with Christ too. Before i posted this thread i was a little distant from Jesus, but since then I am better.
Thank you!

God bless!
 
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WarEagle

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ThankUJesus said:
Can anyone please help me? I was a Christian not too long ago and I am really not sure that I believe anymore:( . I used to, but I see all this evidence from the athiest point of view and they have SO much evidence to show and prove.

Your questions are actually pretty easy, but before I get into that with you, let's cut to the chase to see if we can help get you back on track, shall we?

Where do you stand with God right now? I don't mean what you believe or whether or not you believe the Bible.

What I mean is, if, for whatever reason, you were to die tonight and stand before God and He judges you, like the Bible says that He's going to judge all of us, would you go to Heaven or Hell? Why?

I know this isn't what you asked for, but if we don't take care of this first, then we're putting the cart before the horse.
 
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loststar

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If you feel in your heart that God is with you, how can you possibly let anyone talk you out of it? You can't make yourself feel nothing just because someone gives you a good logical argument, the same way I wouldn't bother arguing with an atheist because you can't make someone feel something they don't. If He tells you He's there, who are they to say He isn't?

*Disclaimer: Please do not run off and commit violent/illegal acts/start wars/etc. based on the voices in your head/heart, but personal belief is different.
 
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JWA

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Most things in this Christian life will make no sense to the world. The world will not understand when someone comes to the Lord and forsakes the earthly lusts and pleasures just because it is pleasing to God. Please don't let the world cause you to stumble friend.

:prayer: God bless!
 
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