A solution

[Hammster]

then people might think they are a cult. The JW broke a way from Mormons and they have been called a cult ever sense.

What would make them a cult?

 

[Hammster]

That is 100% false it started with John Calvin. John Calvin is not sited with the start of the baptist church. John Smyth was. In fact of those sited with the start only one was of Calvinist thought. Founders

In fact Calvinism is not accepted by conservative Baptist nor the southern Baptist which are the two major groups among Baptist.

Hopefully you didn't pay money to learn this.

 

[DeaconDean]

ok i stand corrected, however does not change that most are not now days.

That is right, and have you noticed that America has "backslidden" in recent years?

I wonder why?

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[Swan7]

I found Mormons that once approached me to be a cult rather than JW, by definition of course.

 

[Bluelion]

That is right, and have you noticed that America has "backslidden" in recent years?

I wonder why?

God Bless

Till all are one.

well the start of the country was not all that great either. I mean we stole the land, burned people as witches on an accusation, slavery divided the country, back slide from what?

The view that heathens are destroying the country is bull. The fact is blame lies with the Christians. People are turning away from faith all together because of the way Christians are so unloving, not all, but many. This site is perfect example people attack attack and attack, if people agree 90% post or can not attack 90% they attack the 10%. If i was not mature in my faith i would have walked a way from the Christians, in fact many I do not like, I love God but rarely do Christians reflect God's love. Fact is those of us trying to love can not compete with those who love to judge, and then you mock and insult others and these people say I am of God, bull that is not love and people see that, so they turn away.

What is true in this country was true in Jesus day, You have those religious leaders which cast stumbling blocks before the world. There are Pharisee and religious leads of Jesus day right here in America and the country will pay because of them. Truth is other sites which are not christian are must nice group of People then here and other Christians forums, i guess that is why Jesus preferred the sinners.

So yeah your right the country is being judged by its false prophets and perverted followers, but Please don't imply its because there are not many Calvinist, because the start of the country was not any better, and according to you plenty of Calvinist.

I am debating whether I even want to be called a Christian the name has become so polluted. I think I will just say i follow Jesus and leave it at that.

When people choose to judge and bash people over the head with the law they become the Pharisees. Jesus said do not condemn for you have not been condemn yet people bash others with the Law. The Law puts people to death it was never meant to bring a person to God It is love that brings a person to Christ. Like The Love of God paying a persons debt to the law so they may live. And so because the Law kills and others use it to kill they are murders. And murders have no part in The Kingdom of God.

(lets be clear the Law kills because of sin, it gives sin it power which is death.)

 

[bushinoki]

The thing that gets me is there has been very little discussion of the fact that Baptists are by definition a congregational denomination, with everything run at the local church and participation in the assemblies and associations by willing participation, and that you could consider Calvinist/Arminian a spectrum vs. two sides of a coin. There's no reason to "split" the denomination, because the association is so loose to begin with. Remember, there are cessationist and continuationist Baptist churches. Should the continuationists break off and align with the Assemblies of God?

 

[MrJim]

The thing that gets me is there has been very little discussion of the fact that Baptists are by definition a congregational denomination, with everything run at the local church and participation in the assemblies and associations by willing participation, and that you could consider Calvinist/Arminian a spectrum vs. two sides of a coin. There's no reason to "split" the denomination, because the association is so loose to begin with. Remember, there are cessationist and continuationist Baptist churches. Should the continuationists break off and align with the Assemblies of God?

Agreed~~there is really no ultimate Baptist "denomination" calling the shots...the SBC I attend is going to be different from the one in the next town and next state and if one doesn't like where they're at move on to one that suits instead of causing strife. Congregationalism is what it is.

 

[DeaconDean]

but Please don't imply its because there are not many Calvinist, because the start of the country was not any better, and according to you plenty of Calvinist.

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

As Tim Allen would say: "Beep, beep, back the truck up here."

As a friend and brother in Christ, I urgently urge you to go back and study the five basic points of Arminianism and Calvinism.

It really boils down to only two main things.

Arminianism is man based. or as I call it "I" theology (free-will). What have "I" done for God.

Calvinism is "God" based. Or, what has God done for me.

Here is a chart comparing Arminism and Calvinism:

Calvinism vs Arminianism – Comparison Chart

Item two: You will never hear in church today a preacher stand up in the pulpit and say "I'm Arminian, therefore I teach Arminian theology" or "I'm Calvinist, therefore I teach Calvinist theology".

This is a proven fact. However, I do know of a pastor in Kings Mountian No. Carolina that is Arminian by nature yet teaches "Sovereign Grace", a point of Calvinism.

I was born and raised in an Independant Baptist church. Saved at 12 years of age. I did not even know what Reformed theology was until I went to seminary classes and found out that that was what I was taught from a very early age.

well the start of the country was not all that great either. I mean we stole the land, burned people as witches on an accusation, slavery divided the country, back slide from what?

All that is true, I'm not dening that or defending it. Mostly done by people carrying bibles did that.

The view that heathens are destroying the country is bull. The fact is blame lies with the Christians. People are turning away from faith all together because of the way Christians are so unloving, not all, but many. This site is perfect example people attack attack and attack, if people agree 90% post or can not attack 90% they attack the 10%. If i was not mature in my faith i would have walked a way from the Christians, in fact many I do not like, I love God but rarely do Christians reflect God's love. Fact is those of us trying to love can not compete with those who love to judge, and then you mock and insult others and these people say I am of God, bull that is not love and people see that, so they turn away.

Again, your right. But it has been my experience here on the forums, that 90% of the attackers are/were those who hold to Arminian theology attacking Calvinist theology.

Now perhaps some could be explained by ignorance. But I have also seen that there are a few here with the expressed purpose of defeating/proving that Calvinism is wrong. Just venture over to the Soteriology area.

So yeah your right the country is being judged by its false prophets and perverted followers, but Please don't imply its because there are not many Calvinist, because the start of the country was not any better, and according to you plenty of Calvinist.

There we go, flinging "titles" around. Yes, I am a Calvinist Baptist. It is also correct that you could call me a "Fundamental Baptist" as described by the Niagara Creed of 1878. And you could also call me as a friend here once used to: an "Olde Tyme Orthodox, Fundamental, Baptist".

But I have noticed that over the last quarter of a century, the main issues between Calvinism and Arminianism, lie at the very heart of America's problems. From early American history, we depended on God. In recent years, we have left that principle and abonded it for the principle of what depends on us to do. I do know I'll take a lot of shots for that one, but I accept it.

But I do urge you, before you go flinging "titles" around, go back a study the issues closer.

And regardless of what some people say about him, you cannot fault what David Cloud found out in Southern Seminaries, under the influence of "modernistic" teachers that was not being taught under Calvinist teachers:

"To illustrate the condition of the Southern Baptist schools in the 1970s, consider a survey that was taken in 1976 by a Master of Theology student at the Southern Theological Seminary, the oldest and most prominent of SBC seminaries. Three faculty members--G. Willis Bennett, E. Glenn Hinson, and Henlee Barnette--signed that they had read and approved the thesis containing this survey ("Liberalism Brews within the Southern Baptist Convention," William A. Powell, Sr., Fundamentalist Journal, February, 1984, p. 21). One statement was -- "Jesus was born of a virgin: completely true." Of the first-year students, 96% said they agreed with this statement. Of final-year seminary students, only 66% agreed. Thus, after three years of training in this SBC school, 30% of the students had learned to question the virgin birth of Jesus Christ. It gets worse, though. At the Th.M. level, only 33% agreed that Jesus was born of a virgin, and only 32% of Ph.D. candidates agreed. Thus almost a full 70% of advanced Southern Seminary students in the 1970s questioned the virgin birth. When asked if they believed Jesus literally walked on water, 96% of first-year students believed this, while only 59% of fourth year students believed it, and only 44% of Th.M. and 22% of Ph.D. students believed it. When asked if they had any doubts that Jesus Christ is the Divine Son of God, 100% of first-year students said they had no doubts, while only 87% of fourth-year students, 63% of Th.M. candidates and 63% of Ph.D. candidates had no doubts. This means that almost 40% of the graduate-level students at this SBC school questioned the Deity of Jesus Christ. In fact, it is probable that a much higher percentage questioned the true deity of Christ, since the term "divine Son of God" is commonly reinterpreted by Modernists to mean something other than the fact that Jesus Christ is Almighty God. Further, roughly 30% of the fourth-year students and 35% of Th.M. and Ph.D. candidates said they had doubts even about the existence of God."

"Liberlism in the SBC" by David Cloud

Yes, I am a Baptist, and I am a Calvinist. For one reason and one reason only.

I have took the time to study, search the scriptures, run the references. And I am 100% fully convinced that Baptists teach closer to scriptural teachings than any other denomination. And I am also 100% fully convinced of the same thing of Calvinism.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[now faith]

That is right, and have you noticed that America has "backslidden" in recent years?

I wonder why?

God Bless

Till all are one.

Can a Calvinist back slide?
If so is it a predestined event?

 

[now faith]

The thing that gets me is there has been very little discussion of the fact that Baptists are by definition a congregational denomination, with everything run at the local church and participation in the assemblies and associations by willing participation, and that you could consider Calvinist/Arminian a spectrum vs. two sides of a coin. There's no reason to "split" the denomination, because the association is so loose to begin with. Remember, there are cessationist and continuationist Baptist churches. Should the continuationists break off and align with the Assemblies of God?

The question is raised,are you a Calvinist or a Baptist?


Since Calvinist/ Arminian theology is in opposition on a very fundamental subject,
This question is valid.

 

[now faith]

Historians trace the earliest church labeled "Baptist" back to 1609 in Amsterdam, with English Separatist John Smyth as its pastor.[3] In accordance with his reading of the New Testament, he rejected baptism of infants and instituted baptism only of believing adults.[4] Baptist practice spread to England, where the General Baptists considered Christ's atonement to extend to all people, while the Particular Baptists believed that it extended only to the elect. In 1638, Roger Williams established the first Baptist congregation in the North American colonies. In the mid-18th century, the First Great Awakening increased Baptist growth in both New England and the South.[5] The Second Great Awakening in the South in the early 19th century increased church membership, as did the preachers' lessening of support for abolition and manumission of slavery, which had been part of the 18th-century teachings. Baptist missionaries have spread their church to every continent.[4]

The Baptist World Alliance reports more than 41 million members in more than 150,000 congregations.[6] In 2002, there were over 100 million Baptists and Baptistic group members worldwide and over 33 million in North America.[4] The largest Baptist association is the Southern Baptist Convention, with the membership of associated churches totaling more than 16 million.[5]
Wikipedia

 

[twin1954]

http://www.prbryan.com/bx/baptists.htm

A discussion of the three theories of Baptist history.

 

[Bluelion]

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

As Tim Allen would say: "Beep, beep, back the truck up here."

As a friend and brother in Christ, I urgently urge you to go back and study the five basic points of Arminianism and Calvinism.

It really boils down to only two main things.

Arminianism is man based. or as I call it "I" theology (free-will). What have "I" done for God.

Calvinism is "God" based. Or, what has God done for me.

Here is a chart comparing Arminism and Calvinism:

Calvinism vs Arminianism – Comparison Chart

Item two: You will never hear in church today a preacher stand up in the pulpit and say "I'm Arminian, therefore I teach Arminian theology" or "I'm Calvinist, therefore I teach Calvinist theology".

This is a proven fact. However, I do know of a pastor in Kings Mountian No. Carolina that is Arminian by nature yet teaches "Sovereign Grace", a point of Calvinism.

I was born and raised in an Independant Baptist church. Saved at 12 years of age. I did not even know what Reformed theology was until I went to seminary classes and found out that that was what I was taught from a very early age.



All that is true, I'm not dening that or defending it. Mostly done by people carrying bibles did that.



Again, your right. But it has been my experience here on the forums, that 90% of the attackers are/were those who hold to Arminian theology attacking Calvinist theology.

Now perhaps some could be explained by ignorance. But I have also seen that there are a few here with the expressed purpose of defeating/proving that Calvinism is wrong. Just venture over to the Soteriology area.



There we go, flinging "titles" around. Yes, I am a Calvinist Baptist. It is also correct that you could call me a "Fundamental Baptist" as described by the Niagara Creed of 1878. And you could also call me as a friend here once used to: an "Olde Tyme Orthodox, Fundamental, Baptist".

But I have noticed that over the last quarter of a century, the main issues between Calvinism and Arminianism, lie at the very heart of America's problems. From early American history, we depended on God. In recent years, we have left that principle and abonded it for the principle of what depends on us to do. I do know I'll take a lot of shots for that one, but I accept it.

But I do urge you, before you go flinging "titles" around, go back a study the issues closer.

And regardless of what some people say about him, you cannot fault what David Cloud found out in Southern Seminaries, under the influence of "modernistic" teachers that was not being taught under Calvinist teachers:



"Liberlism in the SBC" by David Cloud

Yes, I am a Baptist, and I am a Calvinist. For one reason and one reason only.

I have took the time to study, search the scriptures, run the references. And I am 100% fully convinced that Baptists teach closer to scriptural teachings than any other denomination. And I am also 100% fully convinced of the same thing of Calvinism.

God Bless

Till all are one.

see you judge me as fitting into this group or that, and that my friend is where you error. I have a baptist icon and I grew up guess you would have to call it southern baptist until 10, then just baptist for the next 7 years. Then I did not go to church much. I go to the largest baptist school in the world. The dean of my college said he was conservative baptist I agree with almost everything he says so I called my self that, but I do not fit in to that group either because i caught Him error and do not agree with it all.

in fact sir when they taught Calvinist i almost dropped out of school because I agreed with so much of them and i did not like what was being said, come to find out my school agreed and reject the same things about I do. In fact My school believes what I do , I don't believe what i am told from my school. God lead me to this school and I see why.

My concentration now is on Biblical studies, even though I am bible and theology major I don't care for theology
. I want to know what God's word says not what some one thinks about that word with no biblical backing. The last straw was really when the author started talking about how God would stop existing if he broke His own Law. Now unless your in heaven and you ask God there is no way to know if that is true and I feel it goes against an all powerful God, that God can some how die, and why would a person ponder such a thought to start with?

Now my class this term is on acts and another mandatory class, next is Romans in every case where I can chose i chose Bible study. I don't fit in to a group, i learned more in my first year of bible school than all my years in church. and that is a problem I hope to address. People need to stop saying I am this Label or that and say i follow Jesus. not men. frankly I could care less who started the Baptist, were they in the Bible? no, why should I care? can i get from them something I can not get from God and His word? no, then why should I care.

Now i have been painted and falsely judged as being against the Calvinist, When in true i only dis agree with two points.
1 total depravity
2. irresistible grace.

yes I do know the five points.

i believe while a man can not redeem him self he had one quality which God could work with and there for reason to redeem. That is a man at some point in his life can choose Good, choose God, I think a man and woman have a light and the more they choose evil the lessor the light gets until it is gone, but at any time one chose a man or woman can choose life and God redeems them for ever. i don't believe man has free will to do what ever he wants but has one case of free will to choose God or satan, Good or evil. i see this played out in the story of cain when God told him He had to choose. I also see it played out in Adam and Eve they could have chose the tree of life or sin and the tree of knowledge. In fact we see the choices of men played out all through the Bible. Abraham in an effort to help God sinned and had Ismael, this is not what God meant when He said he would give Him a child, yet he blessed the child any way. Now How many people have died because of the war between Arabs and Jews. They fight to this day, because one man lost faith and tried to Help God, but things were different be for the finished work of The Cross. Now that Jesus lives in us I think when you choose Him He will stop you from things. I know he has stopped me. But I think you have to be His for this to work, Also if you serve evil you are a slave to it and have to obey as the Bible says, but you can rebel, say you know what I am a wretched sinner God save me I have had enough of evil. I have seen it happen. case in point.

My dad was an atheist, he use to mock God and make fun of us going to church. His second wife who became a minister, got him to go to church and my Dad decided he wanted to be saved. He completely flipped, did a 180, he got saved, and now to this day My Dad is not the same man. He has done work with the homeless, he has helped churches, He gives now, and He has helped me and my brother a lot. To this day me and my Dad have a good relationship, when we could not even speak to each other when i was growing up. Now you would say an Atheist is born that way can never get out, but I have seen different.

So while your making me out to bean enemy of Calvinist i am not, i disagree with two points. And dean you use to be one of the persons i respected most on here. I had always found you holding true to the word and stood up for you when others attacked you.

So to the Calvinist group you can make me an enemy if you want, but i refuse this back and forth we are doing because this is not me. I just want to Love and follow Jesus and I don't care what faith you are or no faith, I am commanded to love you, beating people with the law never brought anyone to God. Its love which brings people to God, love changes hearts, love like Jesus, I want to be like that, i want to love that way, give me that.

No wonder so many people are turning away from faith, we have not given them much to have faith in, we certainly do not act like Jesus with each other. A man said I like your Jesus but you Christians are so un like your Jesus. Wow

and its true most the time. look at the people dying in the middle east for their faith and here we are arguing in or freedom, it seems it could be better spent and if we do not start God will take it from us, not because of the gays or sinners, but because we abused what He gave us. to those who put to good use what is give they will be give more, but those who abuse what is give what little they have will be taken away.

That warning is for us children Of God, not the world. And that is why America is going down hill, We have abused what God has given us, Christians. Not the sinners, which btw we are too. Look at those in the middle east who have no freedom and die in Gods name, what do you think will be given to them? what do you think should be. i know My heart tells me, they deserve our freedom.

And that's the truth can you handle it.

disclaimer: i am not mad that is passion coming through.

 

[DeaconDean]

see you judge me as fitting into this group or that, and that my friend is where you error. I have a baptist icon and I grew up guess you would have to call it southern baptist until 10, then just baptist for the next 7 years. Then I did not go to church much. I go to the largest baptist school in the world. The dean of my college said he was conservative baptist I agree with almost everything he says so I called my self that, but I do not fit in to that group either because i caught Him error and do not agree with it all.

So, it would be a fair question to ask that in your opinion, which denomination has everything correct as far as scriptures are concerned?

in fact sir when they taught Calvinist i almost dropped out of school because I agreed with so much of them and i did not like what was being said, come to find out my school agreed and reject the same things about I do. In fact My school believes what I do , I don't believe what i am told from my school. God lead me to this school and I see why.

Wait a minute. I can't make heads or tails of what you just said.

God led you this school, then they began to teach Calvinism, you agreed, but eventually you come to accept what they taught as it was the same thing you believed. But..you don't believe what the schools says.

I'm confused too.

My concentration now is on Biblical studies, even though I am bible and theology major I don't care for theology

I'm sorry to hear that as theology is behind everything. Especially from a Baptist perspective.

. I want to know what God's word says not what some one thinks about that word with no biblical backing. The last straw was really when the author started talking about how God would stop existing if he broke His own Law. Now unless your in heaven and you ask God there is no way to know if that is true and I feel it goes against an all powerful God, that God can some how die, and why would a person ponder such a thought to start with?

Me too. That is why in seminary, I excelled in "Systematic Theology".

I too wanted to know why I believed what I believed, and systematic theology was just the "tool" I needed.

Here again, you would have to know that God, who cannot lie, cannot go against His own word. If He said He would do something and then not do it, He would become unreliable. His word would be no better than the book "Moby Dick".

Now my class this term is on acts and another mandatory class, next is Romans in every case where I can chose i chose Bible study. I don't fit in to a group, i learned more in my first year of bible school than all my years in church. and that is a problem I hope to address. People need to stop saying I am this Label or that and say i follow Jesus. not men. frankly I could care less who started the Baptist, were they in the Bible? no, why should I care? can i get from them something I can not get from God and His word? no, then why should I care.

In some ways, you are right, but in some ways, you are wrong. It has been said that the bible, salvation is so simple that a 1st greader can understand it. And by the same token, it can appear to be shallow, but when you step intot he stream, its really 20' deep.

A great number of Godly men, scholars and such have devoted lifetimes to study with the intent on understanding God's word more deeply. And it is real shame for people not to take advantage of their work.

You can follow Jesus, and at the same time, read what has been said by more learned men than ourselves.

Now i have been painted and falsely judged as being against the Calvinist, When in true i only dis agree with two points.
1 total depravity
2. irresistible grace.

yes I do know the five points.

I never accused you of this.

So you are a three pointer?

i believe while a man can not redeem him self he had one quality which God could work with and there for reason to redeem. That is a man at some point in his life can choose Good, choose God, I think a man and woman have a light and the more they choose evil the lessor the light gets until it is gone, but at any time one chose a man or woman can choose life and God redeems them for ever. i don't believe man has free will to do what ever he wants but has one case of free will to choose God or satan, Good or evil. i see this played out in the story of cain when God told him He had to choose. I also see it played out in Adam and Eve they could have chose the tree of life or sin and the tree of knowledge. In fact we see the choices of men played out all through the Bible. Abraham in an effort to help God sinned and had Ismael, this is not what God meant when He said he would give Him a child, yet he blessed the child any way. Now How many people have died because of the war between Arabs and Jews. They fight to this day, because one man lost faith and tried to Help God, but things were different be for the finished work of The Cross. Now that Jesus lives in us I think when you choose Him He will stop you from things. I know he has stopped me. But I think you have to be His for this to work, Also if you serve evil you are a slave to it and have to obey as the Bible says, but you can rebel, say you know what I am a wretched sinner God save me I have had enough of evil. I have seen it happen. case in point.

Just a cursory reading shows that you adhere to the "free-will" group as evidenced by: "man at some point in his life can choose Good, choose God".

That is another discussion, for another tiime.

My dad was an atheist, he use to mock God and make fun of us going to church. His second wife who became a minister, got him to go to church and my Dad decided he wanted to be saved. He completely flipped, did a 180, he got saved, and now to this day My Dad is not the same man. He has done work with the homeless, he has helped churches, He gives now, and He has helped me and my brother a lot. To this day me and my Dad have a good relationship, when we could not even speak to each other when i was growing up. Now you would say an Atheist is born that way can never get out, but I have seen different.

I have never heard that once an atheist, always an atheist.

I have always heard that as long as your on this side of the grass, there is always hope.

So while your making me out to bean enemy of Calvinist i am not, i disagree with two points. And dean you use to be one of the persons i respected most on here. I had always found you holding true to the word and stood up for you when others attacked you.

Not once, have I accused you of being an enemy of Calvinism. I merely said that you need to go back and study the five points a little better.

You know it took me six full months just to get a handle on "Unconditional Election"?

And I have always took the time to show you, like in Baptist history, where you were not so much wrong, as incorrect.

So to the Calvinist group you can make me an enemy if you want, but i refuse this back and forth we are doing because this is not me. I just want to Love and follow Jesus and I don't care what faith you are or no faith, I am commanded to love you, beating people with the law never brought anyone to God. Its love which brings people to God, love changes hearts, love like Jesus, I want to be like that, i want to love that way, give me that.

Well...if that's how you feel, I wish you well.

But where have I beat anybody with the Law?

No wonder so many people are turning away from faith, we have not given them much to have faith in, we certainly do not act like Jesus with each other. A man said I like your Jesus but you Christians are so un like your Jesus. Wow

Ah, Gandi. Love that quote.

You can say what you will, but I have since 2005, been a avid defender of the Baptist faith here.

And somewhere, at some time, you gonna have to make a stand. Especially if your a Baptist.

and its true most the time. look at the people dying in the middle east for their faith and here we are arguing in or freedom, it seems it could be better spent and if we do not start God will take it from us, not because of the gays or sinners, but because we abused what He gave us. to those who put to good use what is give they will be give more, but those who abuse what is give what little they have will be taken away.

You know, there isn't much I can do about the Mid -East other than lift them up in prayer.

That warning is for us children Of God, not the world. And that is why America is going down hill, We have abused what God has given us, Christians. Not the sinners, which btw we are too. Look at those in the middle east who have no freedom and die in Gods name, what do you think will be given to them? what do you think should be. i know My heart tells me, they deserve our freedom.

You are right, but, what is going on there, is nothing new. Its been on-going for how many centuries?

And that's the truth can you handle it.

disclaimer: i am not mad that is passion coming through.

I can understand that.

So if I have hurt your feelings, I do apologize.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[DeaconDean]

But by the same token, there is absolutely nothing wrong in wanting to learn "theology proper" (the theology concerning God) and reading what Charles Hodge, or James Boyce, or Jogn Dagg had to say on this.

If you undertake this on your own, it would take several years.

Just saying...

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[DeaconDean]

That is just like right now, I have been challenged on my position regarding textual criticism and the textus receptus.

I have curently been in study, reading collating, and organizing my notes on just this subject.

Now it would be great injustice for me just to pray and say God will direct me.

I have researched as far back as the second century regarding this.

I just urge study on some peoples side.

Thats all I'm saying.

Study, study, study.

If I'm gonna get up and preach, I study long before I actually preach. Cause I want to preach the "Word". Now if that means I have to use commentaries or books and even praying at the same time to ensure I teach, preach correectly, so be it.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[JM]

Baptistic ideals are more about church polity like who gets dunked and the natural of the church, rather than soteriological.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

then people might think they are a cult. The JW broke a way from Mormons and they have been called a cult ever sense.

The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society (the Jehovah’s Witnesses) was founded by Charles Taze Russell. Russell was raised in a Presbyterian (Calvinist) home until he was 13 years old and then joined a Congregational Church. At age 16, he began to seriously question Christian orthodoxy and became caught up in the Adventist movement which led to his founding what is now commonly known as the Bible Student movement. He was never a Mormon, and the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society was NEVER even remotely Mormon in its theology.

Calvinism is NOT a cult.

From the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary:

cult
noun, often attributive \ˈkəlt\
: a small religious group that is not part of a larger and more accepted religion and that has beliefs regarded by many people as extreme or dangerous
: a situation in which people admire and care about something or someone very much or too much
: a small group of very devoted supporters or fans

Full Definition of CULT
1
: formal religious veneration : WORSHIP
2
: a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
3
: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents
4
: a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator <health cults>
5
a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad
b : the object of such devotion
c : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion

 

[PrincetonGuy]

Based on my last question and response I received,I have a solution.

It is clear that there is a big divide on theology among Calvinist and the rest of the Baptist.

As far a being neutral my answer was that would be almost impossible.

What would be wrong with Calvinist separation from Baptist?

They could simply call themselves Calvinist rather than Baptist.
It makes sense to me if it would end the never ending banter over the issue.

The great majority of Baptists commingle Calvinist and Arminian beliefs in their theology, and are often referred to as three or four point Calvinists. The teaching that a Christian cannot lose his salvation is a Calvinist doctrine firmly opposed by Arminian theology.

 

[DeaconDean]

Bluelion,

I offer my apologies if I offended.

And in light of circumstances beyond my control, I think it is best if I bow out of this discussion.

God Bless

Till all are one.