A small trinity question

[Deren]

I justed wanted someone to explain using the trinity concept the following:

Mark 12: 29 Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One.

DEUTERONOMY 6:4 Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God, the Lord is one.

DEUTERONOMY 32: 39 See now that I myself am He! There is no god besides me.

Isaiah 44: 6 This is what the Lord says, Israel's King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

Isaiah 45: 5 I am the Lord, there is no other; apart from me there is no God.

One cannot explain the Trinity by isolating just a few verses from Scripture, especially since it is God who did the revealing of his triune nature, and he inspired more than what you've provided above to make that revelation evident.

 

[saladin1970]

God the father, Protector - Vishnu
God the Holy spirit, Jiva (soul), Destroyer of Maya - Shiv
the son, father of humans, creator - Brahma

lol and where does the might ohm fit in or the monkey god, or the rat god, or the phallus god??

 

[MAXX]

lol and where does the might ohm fit in or the monkey god, or the rat god, or the phallus god??

where does child rapist sex starved mohammed fit in quran? That old man but more sex starved than youngs.

 

[nirotu]

I justed wanted someone to explain using the trinity concept the following:

Mark 12: 29 Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One.

DEUTERONOMY 6:4 Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God, the Lord is one.

DEUTERONOMY 32: 39 See now that I myself am He! There is no god besides me.

Isaiah 44: 6 This is what the Lord says, Israel's King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

Isaiah 45: 5 I am the Lord, there is no other; apart from me there is no God.

Dear Woots:



I subscribe to the main stream Christianity – Triune concept of God.

Deuteronomy 6:4 “Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!”

Verse 4 is subject to various translations, though the statement is likely stressing the uniqueness of Yahweh and should be translated, “The LORD is our God, the LORD alone.”

However, there is also a secondary emphasis—The Lord’s indivisibility. This is apparent in most English translations. This confession clearly prepares the way for the later revelation of the Trinity, but how? “God” (Elohim) is a plural word, and the word one (the Hebrew, echad) refers to one in a collective sense. As such, it is used of the union of Adam and Eve (Gen. 2:24) to describe two persons in one flesh. Further, it is used in a collective sense, like one cluster of grapes rather than in an absolute sense as in Numbers 13:23 when the spies brought back a single cluster of grapes. Furthermore, the oneness of God is implied in those Old Testament passages that declare that there is no other God beside Yahweh, the God of Israel. (from a source unknown)

The same interpretation goes for the other verses you quoted:

Deuteronomy 4:35 “To you it was shown that you might know that the LORD, He is God; there is no other besides Him.”

Isaiah 46:9 “Remember the former things long past, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me.”

The concept of Trinity in Christianity is a mystery. Perhaps, this analogy might help.



1. Water = H2O

2. Ice = H2O

3. Steam = H2O



Yet, water is not the same as ice, ice is not the same as steam and steam is not the same as water in its appearance to us. But, they all have same fundamental property, which is 2 Hydrogen and 1 Oxygen atoms. Thus, H2O is unique and same to all three in its nature and essence (constituents).



Likewise, God is one in nature, one in essence but revealed to us as three eternally distinct persons. That is the same in substance but distinct in subsistence.



Therefore,



God = One true God

Jesus = Same as God in essence

Holy Spirit = Same as God in essence



But God is not same as Jesus in appearance. Jesus is not same as Holy Spirit in appearance. They are one in essence or substance.



Hope this helps

Having said that, let me confess that no man can fully explain the Trinity, though in every age scholars have propounded theories and advanced hypotheses to explore this mysterious Biblical teaching. But despite the worthy efforts of these scholars, the Trinity is still largely incomprehensible to the mind of man, but it is nevertheless a vital truth of the Bible. It is a doctrine that is closely connected to other key doctrines like the deity of Christ and the Holy Spirit. In fact, our salvation is rooted in the mysterious nature of the Godhead who coexists as three distinct Persons all of whom are involved in our salvation in all its aspects, past, present, and future. It encompasses everything we know and practice as Christians—our sanctification, our fellowship, our prayer life, our Bible study, or our corporate worship. There are ample examples in the Bible that clearly suggests the divinity in Christ, the second person of the Holy Trinity.

Unfortunately, the teachings are obscured by years of misinterpretations. Perhaps the chief reason for this is that the Trinity is a-logical, or beyond logic. It, therefore, cannot be made subject to human reason or logic. Because of this, opponents of the doctrine argue that the idea of the Trinity must be rejected as untenable. Such thinking, however, makes man’s corrupted human reason the sole criterion for determining the truth of divine revelation. (Walter Martin, Essential Christianity, Vision House, Santa Anna, 1975, p. 21)



Blessings,



In Him,

nirotu

 

[CocaCola]

MAXX, He fits in the minds of Osama and Saladin1970.

 

[Catholicism]

I justed wanted someone to explain using the trinity concept the following:

Mark 12: 29 Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One.

DEUTERONOMY 6:4 Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God, the Lord is one.

DEUTERONOMY 32: 39 See now that I myself am He! There is no god besides me.

Isaiah 44: 6 This is what the Lord says, Israel's King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

Isaiah 45: 5 I am the Lord, there is no other; apart from me there is no God.

So what's your question?

Edit: I think I understand after thinking about it. A triangle is the best way to describe God's triune nature. Three distinct sides....One triangle.

 

[Catholicism]

Actually, just to throw out a question, what is the differance between God the Father of CHristianity, and the God of Islam? Is it simply that in the God of Islam there is no procession?

 

[Thirst_For_Knowledge]

I would like to help you answer your question... just as soon as I actually make any sense of the Trinity.

 

[Catholicism]

I would like to help you answer your question... just as soon as I actually make any sense of the Trinity.

Read any doctors of the church? Or the Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church?

 

[If Not For Grace]

I am no theologian but I like to think of GOD as h20.

The substance is water---Live sustaining.

the form can be ICE--Used to heal comfort, etc.

or perhaps STEAM--a very powerful form used to put in motion.


We just use the terms Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

Think About it

 

[Iollain]

The Trinity of the One God is not an easy concept to grasp and you would have to read the Bible to get a better understanding of Him, here is one example of the Trinity:



Who raised Jesus from the dead?

Himself:

Jhn 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.


The glory of the Father...
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.


By the Father....

Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead





1Cr 6:14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.

Hbr 11:19 Accounting that God [was] able to raise [him] up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.


By the Spirit....
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.




Who will raise the dead ?

Act 26:8 Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead?




1Cr 6:14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.





Jhn 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Jhn 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jhn 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jhn 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.


Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.




Jesus is True God of True God.

 

[Woots]

Actually, just to throw out a question, what is the differance between God the Father of CHristianity, and the God of Islam? Is it simply that in the God of Islam there is no procession?

In Islam we have one god... onlye one god and the holy spirit for us is an angel called Jibril. He is the one who was sent down with god's messages to Muhammed (pbuh) but Jibril is not god....... he is only an angel. and Muhammed was not the son of god...... he was just his meesenger.

 

[benmaarof]

Actually AdonaiShalom just answered you. Jesus is God but yet human. He is showing that although being God, He came as man to the world. So when He addresses Himself He call my God.

When God decided that the salvation of man is at hand He sent Himself as sacrifice for sin. He know well if He came with full glory mankind will die therefore He empty His glory and authority before decending. Being empty of His fully glory it is appropriate to called His other self God.

It is hard to understand but it is all that I can explain to you. You'll need a theologian if you needed deeper understanding

How can God sacrifice Himself? Shouldn't He be owning everything? Sacrificing mean losing or forfeiting something. If I sacrifice my time or money, I'll definately won't see them again.

 

[Iollain]

When all the sins of the world were placed on the sinless Son of God, He became the ultimate and last sacrafice. YOur overlooking what the Son means to the Father. The Father had forsaken Jesus because the sins of the world were on Him on the Cross, however death could not hold Him because of who He is and because He was sinless. If we accept Him as Saviour, we put on Christ, His death becomes our death, His resurrection will become our resurrection.

 

[alyaba]

why would god kill himself or his son as you say? do you think that god needs blood to forgive or that he must do something to get rid of our sins what you think he does not have the capability to erase sin if he wants?

 

[benmaarof]

The Trinity of the One God is not an easy concept to grasp and you would have to read the Bible to get a better understanding of Him, here is one example of the Trinity:

Who raised Jesus from the dead?

Himself:

Jhn 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.


The glory of the Father...
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.


By the Father....

Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead

1Cr 6:14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.

Hbr 11:19 Accounting that God [was] able to raise [him] up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.


By the Spirit....
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Who will raise the dead ?

Act 26:8 Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead?

1Cr 6:14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.

Jhn 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Jhn 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jhn 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jhn 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Jesus is True God of True God.

BUt Jesus, according to the Bible , himself said that he was powerless to do anything, so how can he be God?
Jesus) said: "I can of mine own self do nothing." (John, 5:30)

How can "God" be ignorant?
Jesus said: "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father." (Mark, 13:32)

How can "God" be increasing in wisdom as he grows up? Shouldn't "God" be omniscient"
"And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man." (Luke, 2:52)

Of course God can raise the dead, but Jesus can't. Jesus is powerless. God is not powerless.

And why should we believe what John and PAul wrote when what they said about the nature of God is illogical and doesn't make sense?

 

[benmaarof]

When all the sins of the world were placed on the sinless Son of God, He became the ultimate and last sacrafice. YOur overlooking what the Son means to the Father. The Father had forsaken Jesus because the sins of the world were on Him on the Cross, however death could not hold Him because of who He is and because He was sinless. If we accept Him as Saviour, we put on Christ, His death becomes our death, His resurrection will become our resurrection.

If Jesus was sacrificed by God, then why did he run away and hide? Shouldn't he gave himself up so that mankind sins would be cleansed?

"God" Was Panic-Stricken: "After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for
he would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him." (John, 7:1)

"God" Walked in Fear of the Jews: "Then from that day forth they took
counsel together for to put him to death. Jesus therefore walked no more
openly among the Jews." (John, 11:53-54)

"God" Has Shown a Clean Pair of Heels: "Therefore they sought again to take
him: but he escaped out of their hand." (John, 10:39)

"God" Fled in Disguise: "Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus
hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and
so passed by." (John, 8:59)

And if Jesus was supposed to have died raised again so that our sins would be cleansed, why do you Christians treat Judas as a pariah. Shouldn't he be a hero?

 

[benmaarof]

When all the sins of the world were placed on the sinless Son of God, He became the ultimate and last sacrafice. YOur overlooking what the Son means to the Father. The Father had forsaken Jesus because the sins of the world were on Him on the Cross, however death could not hold Him because of who He is and because He was sinless. If we accept Him as Saviour, we put on Christ, His death becomes our death, His resurrection will become our resurrection.

Isn't this Paulian philosophy? Why should we believe him(Paul)?

 

[Iollain]

why would god kill himself or his son as you say? do you think that god needs blood to forgive or that he must do something to get rid of our sins what you think he does not have the capability to erase sin if he wants?

Because Adam,lost it all, Adam wilfully sinned because God told him not to eat of that one tree or he would die......all humans have this curse of death from the fall, as we are from Adam. Jesus came to fix that, if we believe on Him we will have eternal life.





Hbr 9:1 Then verily the first [covenant] had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.


Hbr 9:2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein [was] the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.


Hbr 9:3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;


Hbr 9:4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein [was] the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;


Hbr 9:5 And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.


Hbr 9:6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service [of God].


Hbr 9:7 But into the second [went] the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and [for] the errors of the people:


Hbr 9:8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:


Hbr 9:9 Which [was] a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;


Hbr 9:10 [Which stood] only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed [on them] until the time of reformation.


Hbr 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;


Hbr 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption [for us].


Hbr 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:


Hbr 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?


Hbr 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.


Hbr 9:16 For where a testament [is], there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.


Hbr 9:17 For a testament [is] of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.


Hbr 9:18 Whereupon neither the first [testament] was dedicated without blood.


Hbr 9:19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,


Hbr 9:20 Saying, This [is] the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.


Hbr 9:21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.


Hbr 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.


Hbr 9:23 [It was] therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.


Hbr 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, [which are] the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:


Hbr 9:25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;


Hbr 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.


Hbr 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:


Hbr 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.


Hbr 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission

 

[benmaarof]

Because Adam,lost it all, Adam wilfully sinned because God told him not to eat of that one tree or he would die......all humans have this curse of death from the fall, as we are from Adam. Jesus came to fix that, if we believe on Him we will have eternal life.

Again, isn't this Paulian philosophy? We should we believe him?