A Small Personal Testimony

[Christownsme]

I grew up an overachiever. A genius, I had perfect grades in school and in college. I am an accomplished musician, having traveled to Europe 5 times and all over the USA because of honing skills on a stringed instrument. I also grew up in the strictest church around our home. I tried joining it twice, and God stopped me twice from joining it.

In midlife, while trying so hard to join that church and quit sinning some sins in my life, I had a mental breakdown resulting in schizophrenia. I quit the church I was trying to join. I had to quit school. Eventually I had to quit work and get on disability.

So God broke a lot of pride out of me. Did I also mention that I was very unbelieving in college? I didn't believe in the sovereignty of God. Part of it is that I've been brainwashed as a college student by drowning myself in the physics of the modern world. I can't understand invisible spirit beings intervening physically.. But I accept it today, with a bit of a struggle.

Now at 42 years old I'm struggling with a lifetime of poor choices and confusion of the law and grace. I am slowly learning the pasture of grace is not small but huge - not restrictive but open.

I am my own worst enemy because I am so strict on myself, fear of not measuring up - to myself mostly... I'm just struggling with my own taskmaster behavior toward myself. I don't easily forgive myself because I'm afraid of overstepping grace.

And yet I've been told God's love is so much more than what I can believe. And His understanding is all seeing. He put me together and knows why I think and behave why I do.

My Lord is God the Christ, Jesus of Nazareth. He died in my place so I wouldn't have to. I get to live.

 

[Alithis]

welcome to the human race who have entered into the Grace of the lord Jesus .

i am everything opposite to you academically speaking
and yet many of our struggles of sin are identical .

be only Encouraged
we are one in Jesus our living HOPE and sure salvation

 

[Kemosabe]

Christownsme: And yet I've been told God's love is so much more than what I can believe.

We must keep God's commandments to abide in God's love.
It's as simple as that.

"If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love..."

A lot of people teach that "grace" is a magic word that permits sin.

Let's see what Paul says:

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth ... hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace..."

What are we going to do?
We have to stop sinning to please God.
Might as well do it.
I don't see any other options.

.

 

[Christownsme]

We must keep God's commandments to abide in God's love.
It's as simple as that.

"If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love..."

A lot of people teach that "grace" is a magic word that permits sin.

Let's see what Paul says:

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth ... hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace..."

What are we going to do?
We have to stop sinning to please God.
Might as well do it.
I don't see any other options.

.

Thanks, Kemosabe

I'm very familiar with that portion of Hebrews verses. And it's so true, we can't decide to sin for the rest of our lives and live outside of God's blessings and grace.

 

[Alithis]

We must keep God's commandments to abide in God's love.
It's as simple as that.

"If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love..."

A lot of people teach that "grace" is a magic word that permits sin.

Let's see what Paul says:

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth ... hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace..."

What are we going to do?
We have to stop sinning to please God.
Might as well do it.
I don't see any other options.

.

i suspect you are making assumptions with your reference to people using the word "grace" as some kind of magic word that excuses sin .

could you perhaps give a reference where ANYONE has ever said that "grace" excuses willful sin ?

and please share with us how it has come about that you have not ever sinned since you became a christian - because that is what your implying .

is it true kemosabe ?have you never once sinned since you became a believer in Jesus

 

[1watchman]

It looks like the verse challenged is not being quoted fully. The thought in the Word (KJV) is that if one sins willfully after one has received the KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there is no more sacrifice for sin (Heb. 10:26). That is to say Jesus Christ is the sacrifice, and if that is not good enough for one, then there is nothing else. We need to read Scripture in context. If one fails to receive Him, that is all God has given for salvation.

 

[Alithis]

love context

 

[Kemosabe]

1watchman: It looks like the verse challenged is not being quoted fully. The thought in the Word (KJV) is that if one sins willfully after one has received the KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there is no more sacrifice for sin (Heb. 10:26). That is to say Jesus Christ is the sacrifice, and if that is not good enough for one, then there is nothing else. We need to read Scripture in context. If one fails to receive Him, that is all God has given for salvation.

I'm just curious, why do you try to twist this scripture?

1watchman; "If one fails to receive Him"

The scripture makes it clear; "after that we have received"

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries."

If we sin wilfully after receiving Christ as our Savoir, then we "hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace" and face "certain" "judgment and fiery indignation."

Jesus says the very same thing; "Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee."

It's rather silly to think that Jesus would come and die so that we can sin.

 

[Alithis]

I'm just curious, why do you try to twist this scripture?

1watchman; "If one fails to receive Him"

The scripture makes it clear; "after that we have received"

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries."

If we sin wilfully after receiving Christ as our Savoir, then we "hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace" and face "certain" "judgment and fiery indignation."

Jesus says the very same thing; "Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee."

It's rather silly to think that Jesus would come and die so that we can sin.

im just curios
why do you twist everyone's words and avoid my questions?
you are again implying that since you became a christian you have never once sinned... is that true?

 

[Kemosabe]

michaelmynameIs: love context

The "love context":

1. If we keep God's commandments, then we live in God's love.

"He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."

2. If we don't keep God's commandments, then God knows we don't love Him.

"He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me."

I don't know how this can be complicated.

 

[Alithis]

kemosabi-answer a straight question -are you saying that since you became a christian you have never once sinned?

 

[Kemosabe]

michaelmynameIs: kemosabi-answer a straight question -are you saying that since you became a christian you have never once sinned?

First answer my question;

Who gives a rat's *** what Kemosabe does?

Isn't the only important thing, what God says we must do?

You answer my question, I'll answer yours.

 

[Alithis]

@ kemosabe:

it is required and expected that we practice - then preach what we practice .

as the only question you have directly asked me here is "who gives...." i assume by your derogatory phrase you mean- "Who cares".. Well my answer is ,"I care" ,as if you say you have never sinned you contradict the bible as written in the epistles of john .1,2 & 3.
and if you "Have" sinned then you have received forgiveness according to the grace of God shown in Christ Jesus and so contradict everything you have been preaching .

 

[Forest]

8 God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. 9 Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it. 10 For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago.

 

[Kemosabe]

That was a two part question:

Isn't the only important thing, what God says we must do?

 

[Alithis]

That was a two part question:

Isn't the only important thing, what God says we must do?

but it is not god saying it --it is your personal interpretation and if you cant stand behind what you preach you should not preach it .

if you say you have never sinned you contradict the bible as written in the epistles of john .1,2 & 3.
and if you "Have" sinned then you have received forgiveness according to the grace of God shown in Christ Jesus and so contradict everything you have been preaching.

the point is at no point can we of our flesh over come the sins of the flesh -it is something GOD does in us by the mighty working of HIS spirit to the glory of HIS grace .

even paul when boasting of all his efforts and achievements said .. "but all these things i count as dung" .because he knew that which is achieved by the might of the flesh - is of the flesh and not of the Spirit . we are made holy and righteous in Jesus and in Jesus ONLY .if at any time we do it in our own strength then we risk insulting everything he has done for us on the cross .

you say we must obey his commands to abide in him .. do you practice what you preach ? do you listen to his present commands that he speaks to us in our present lives.. or do you tune him out and follow a set of written rules .. well and good it seems .

but what happens when you say lord lord I did this and that in your name ,, and he says depart from me for i do not "know " you ...

how can we do so many good things and adhere to so many rules in our own strength and not KNOW him ?
because we have not listened to what he is speaking to our hearts in our present lives ! Jesus said my sheep KNOW my VOICE and they HEAR and follow ME .
so we are left with the conclusion that it is those that hear him in this present life and obey what he speaks to them, in their present lives ,that KNOW HIM and not those who religiously follow a set of instructions while ignoring his voice .it is so important to hear his voice and obey what he commands of us - it acknowledges that we believe he is ALIVE TODAY and have FAITH in him .
-----------------------

 

[Kemosabe]

michaelmynameIs: but it is not god saying it

But God is saying it!

"If ye love me, keep my commandments."

michaelmynameIs: it is your personal interpretation

No private interpretation, keep the commandments.

"If ye love me, keep my commandments."

michaelmynameIs:  if you cant stand behind what you preach you should not preach it .

True, but that doesn't change the fact that God demands that we keep His commandments.

michaelmynameIs: if you say you have never sinned you contradict the bible as written in the epistles of john .1,2 & 3.

That's silly.

Before you except Jesus, you're a liar if you say you haven't sinned.

If we have to say that we are sinners after accepting Jesus, that would make it a commandment to sin.

michaelmynameIs: and if you "Have" sinned then you have received forgiveness according to the grace of God shown in Christ Jesus and so contradict everything you have been preaching.

Show me where I said God doesn't forgive sins.

The scriptures make a difference between sins of ignorance and willful sins. We have an advocate.

The scriptures make a difference between sins between brethren and willful sins; anger ...etc. Forgive, don't be judgemental, first be reconciled to your brother.

Willful sins, adultery, fornication, robbery, ...etc; we've done despite to the Spirit of grace and face certain judgement and punishment. But the scripture doesn't say that there's no chance that God will forgive us if we repent and stop and accept the judgement and punishment.

michaelmynameIs: the point is at no point can we of our flesh over come the sins of the flesh -it is something GOD does in us by the mighty working of HIS spirit to the glory of HIS grace .

Just follow these instructions, 100% guaranteed.

"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

michaelmynameIs: even paul when boasting of all his efforts and achievements said .. "but all these things i count as dung"

Paul; "And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men."

That's what we're to do.

michaelmynameIs: because he knew that which is achieved by the might of the flesh - is of the flesh and not of the Spirit . we are made holy and righteous in Jesus and in Jesus ONLY .if at any time we do it in our own strength then we risk insulting everything he has done for us on the cross .

Paul simple instructions;

"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

michaelmynameIs: you say we must obey his commands to abide in him

Not me, that's what Jesus says.

"If ye love me, keep my commandments."

michaelmynameIs: do you practice what you preach ?

Yes.

michaelmynameIs: do you listen to his present commands that he speaks to us in our present lives.. or do you tune him out and follow a set of written rules .. well and good it seems

It's impossible for God to change.
His present commands are the same as the written commands and are eternal and what we will be judged by.

michaelmynameIs: or do you tune him out and follow a set of written rules

According to God, we're tuning Him out if we don't follow His written commands, and He'll tune us out.

Could you give an example of some of these "present commands."

michaelmynameIs: but what happens when you say lord lord I did this and that in your name ,, and he says depart from me for i do not "know " you ...

That's the beauty of it, even God can't deny us the Kingdom if we keep His commandments.

Besides, you're getting that backwards;

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

"doeth the will of my Father" it's the requirement.

And that's the whole point, why not just do it?

michaelmynameIs: how can we do so many good things and adhere to so many rules in our own strength and not KNOW him ?

"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

Beside, there's not really very many rules.
Love God, love your neighbor and don't be immoral.

michaelmynameIs: because we have not listened to what he is speaking to our hearts in our present lives ! Jesus said my sheep KNOW my VOICE and they HEAR and follow ME .

This is the message to our present lives;

"If ye love me, keep my commandments."

michaelmynameIs: so we are left with the conclusion that it is those that hear him in this present life and obey what he speaks to them, in their present lives ,that KNOW HIM and not those who religiously follow a set of instructions while ignoring his voice

I don't know what the voices are saying, but this is what Jesus says;

"And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works."

michaelmynameIs: it is so important to hear his voice and obey what he commands of us - it acknowledges that we believe he is ALIVE TODAY and have FAITH in him .

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death."



So, to answer your question: "-are you saying that since you became a christian you have never once sinned?"

I did fall away.
I repented and stopped sinning.
I don't sin now.

 

[Alithis]

@kemosabi. (though i may assume you are anyone of the few "jesus people" members)- i do recognize the dissecting misdirecting style after all.

i will ignore your over the top dissection which picks out lines randomly in order to misdirect people from what i was saying .which is only apparant when one reads it as a unified collection of sentences.each in context to the next which lose all meaning when randomized.

and i shall.acknowledge your answer to my question-which is.

I did fall away.
I repented and stopped sinning.
I don't sin now.

so,you did receive the grace of God even though you sinned.
and will do again if you sin.

but don't panic and quickly assume that folks who advocate the grace of God are advocating life without repentance.we are not. for shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?God forbid.

but we do give glory where it is due.and that is to God! for our victory over sin is not our doing but is by his spirit working mightily within us to conform us into the image of his son.we can take no credit.
when we build a life on self effort its a sand house-when the storm comes,as sure as the word of God is true, it WILL FALL.
our faith must be founded solely in Jesus to do what we are unable to do.save ourselves.

you often seem to display a misunderstanding of what others say to you and then react to it .
instead of tearing apart a post into single non-contextual sentences,read them as whole and give them thoughtful consideration.then reply to the post as a whole.

if you reply again by splitting my post into separate out of context pieces, i will assume you cannot understand and place you on ignore

 

[Kemosabe]

michaelmynameIs: i will ignore your over the top dissection which picks out lines randomly in order to misdirect people from what i was saying

The proliferation of unscriptural statements demanded individual attention.

michaelmynameIs: which is only apparant when one reads it as a unified collection of sentences.each in context to the next which lose all meaning when randomized.

In other words, it gets exposed as unscriptural.

michaelmynameIs: but don't panic and quickly assume that folks who advocate the grace of God...

You're not advocating grace, you're trying to turn grace into lasciviousness.

michaelmynameIs: when we build a life on self effort its a sand house-when the storm comes,as sure as the word of God is true, it WILL FALL.

We either do what God says, or we don't.

We can pretend that we don't have to by labeling any commitment on our part, "self effort", but that won't fool God.

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

We have to do the "doeth", or else.

michaelmynameIs: our faith must be founded solely in Jesus to do what we are unable to do.save ourselves.

Then do what Jesus says, keep His commandments and teach others to do the same.

"Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you."

michaelmynameIs: then reply to the post as a whole

Why? Who cares how someone post?

michaelmynameIs: if you reply again by splitting my post into separate out of context pieces, i will assume you cannot understand and place you on ignore

I'll assume your doctrine can't stand scriptural alignment.

 

[rgleason]

welcome to the human race who have entered into the Grace of the lord Jesus .

i am everything opposite to you academically speaking
and yet many of our struggles of sin are identical .

be only Encouraged
we are one in Jesus our living HOPE and sure salvation

I don't belong to the human race, I am a new creation in Christ Jesus.
2 Corinthians 5:17