A simple question

[Jane_the_Bane]

God does not curse.

Can you clarify your second clause?

I suppose he's talking about Genesis, and the Calvinist/Reformed understanding of the same: if memory serves, Calvinism pretty much teaches that God WANTED Adam and Eve to sin, knowing that they would do so. ("Secret purpose" was the term, if I recall correctly.) So he planned it all out and cursed them for their misdeed, thus creating the need for a saviour with which to glorify Himself.

 

[pgp_protector]

God does not curse.

Can you clarify your second clause?

Genesis 3:14
So the LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, "Cursed are you above all the livestock and all the wild animals! You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life.

Genesis 5:29
He named him Noah and said, "He will comfort us in the labor and painful toil of our hands caused by the ground the LORD has cursed."

 

[sk8Joyful]

in the "garden of Eden"
why would the god feel the need to test our faith?

Why are we responsible for disease, sickness, and death?

Adam & Eve were present in the 'garden of Eden';
what does that have to do with "our" faith?

When a person buys-into negative-beliefs, & entertains harmful-emotions, eventually growing dis-eased; how
is that GOD's doing??

GOD created/blessed you with an expandable Learning-mind, plus
your ability to maintain exemplary emotional-states, & thus, for all such made you responsable!
.

 

[sk8Joyful]

Genesis 3:14
So the LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, "Cursed are you above all the livestock and all the wild animals! You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life.

So the LORD God said
(missed is this part): "to the serpent Cursed are you."

The earth, and us however, were & we are continuing being blessed...

 

[pgp_protector]

So the LORD God said
(missed is this part): "to the serpent Cursed are you."

It's there (I just didn't highlight it), but either way it still does show that God does curse things, contrary to the posting of

God does not curse.

 

[sk8Joyful]

It's there (I just didn't highlight it), but either way it still does show that God does curse

You're de-railing, off this subject:
Originally Posted
God does not curse.
[/quote]

So you think death, disease, and suffering are cool and awesome?

to which I responded: "When a person buys-into negative-beliefs, &
entertains harmful-emotions, eventually growing dis-eased; how is that GOD's doing??

GOD created/blessed you with an expandable... Learning-mind, plus
your ability to maintain exemplary emotional-states, & thus, for all such made you responsable! "

 

[ChaliceThunder]

I suppose he's talking about Genesis, and the Calvinist/Reformed understanding of the same: if memory serves, Calvinism pretty much teaches that God WANTED Adam and Eve to sin, knowing that they would do so. ("Secret purpose" was the term, if I recall correctly.) So he planned it all out and cursed them for their misdeed, thus creating the need for a saviour with which to glorify Himself.

Yeah, well...that's not the God I love and serve!
Can you imagine anything more capricious???

It sounds like the Calvinists were imputing the same
kinds of motives to God as were attributed
to the gods of Greece & Rome.

 

[ChaliceThunder]

Genesis 3:14
So the LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, "Cursed are you above all the livestock and all the wild animals! You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life.

Genesis 5:29
He named him Noah and said, "He will comfort us in the labor and painful toil of our hands caused by the ground the LORD has cursed."

And if one is a biblical literalist, I suppose one would need to believe that.

I am not a literalist. I don't believe God curses anything or anyone.
It's the tiny, terrified minds of men that have led to attrbuting this kind of mentality to God.

 

[ChaliceThunder]

So you think death, disease, and suffering are cool and awesome?

I do????

Where did I say or even imply THAT?!?!?

Of course.
I ask whether you question if your god's endowment of said death, disease, and suffering reflects on the motives of said god in creating humanity.
Actually, now I think about it, do animals sin?

I think you are falling into the trap of biblical literalism.
It's a terrible snare, especially for lazy minds. It's best avoided.

 

[Christ+a]

exactly.
God did not create sickness and suffering and death. they are all consequences of sin.
He did give us free will as we are created in His image - maybe perfect robots would have been a lot less messy... but then again: that wouldn't have been in His image and our love wouldn't have been freely given, nor would we have the possibility to reject His love.

 

[Garyzenuf]

exactly.
God did not create sickness and suffering and death. they are all consequences of sin.

Apparently God created everything.... anywho, if He really cared about our suffering and He can do anything, why not go back in time and slap Eve's hand when she reached for the apple. Not knowing good from evil, this would have been the humane thing to do.

He did give us free will as we are created in His image -

If we were created in His image we would be invisible.

maybe perfect robots would have been a lot less messy...

Except they would leave little piles of batteries everywhere that would have to be cleaned up.

but then again: that wouldn't have been in His image and our love wouldn't have been freely given, nor would we have the possibility to reject His love.

Freely given??? love me or burn in Hell for eternity?

*

 

[sk8Joyful]

I don't believe God curses anything or anyone.

Good thinking

It's the tiny, terrified minds - of men, attributing this mentality to God.

Careful that mind-state describes most CF posters.

 

[b&wpac4]

Good thinking


Careful that mind-state describes most CF posters.

I believe God created the bad so that we have something to struggle against. Without the bad part, how could we overcome it and be good? We would just sit around all day and do nothing.

 

[roflcopter101]

Where did I say or even imply THAT?!?!?

Well, I thought that if you denied that god would curse us, that you were thinking that he/she/it was blessing humanity by giving death, disease, and whatever I said before.

I think you are falling into the trap of biblical literalism.

No, but like, I am still wondering why that god would create humanity if he would make humanity suffer later on. Does that fall into the category of biblical literalism?

 

[roflcopter101]

When a person buys-into negative-beliefs, &
entertains harmful-emotions, eventually growing dis-eased; how is that GOD's doing??

I believe that logic does not always lead to disease.
Besides, has there been many cases of diseases being caused by your "negative beliefs"? AIDS caused by pessimism? Cancer caused by infidelity?
To have disease, death, pain, and what I mentioned before exist, you would have to believe that they were created by your god.
My question is why your god create these things if he/she/it was fully aware that creating humanity would lead to humanity suffering from the aforementioned problems?

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

exactly.
God did not create sickness and suffering and death. they are all consequences of sin.

1. If death did not exist prior to the Fall, how could God possibly communicate the concept to Adam? I mean, it should have been hard enough, seeing how Adam wasn't yet aware of the difference between good and evil, but if he didn't even know what death was...
2. Adam and Eve eat. This suggests they're part of a functional ecosystem that includes both reproduction and death - otherwise, the garden of Eden would have been quickly overrun by self-multiplying organisms.
3. Can you possibly show the connection between diseases (which are the consequence of certain micro-organisms multiplying in our body, not of nasty thoughts or deeds), natural disasters (which are the result of weather phenomena or geological phenomena, not of nasty thoughts or deeds) and acquiring knowledge of good and evil?
As I said before, it's one thing to attribute wars and injustices to Sin - and altogether another to claim that man is responsible for the existence of thistles and birth-pangs.

He did give us free will as we are created in His image - maybe perfect robots would have been a lot less messy...

Ah, the old "either we fall or we are robots" - strawman. Use your imagination. There's a whole lot of other options: a universe where Adam and Eve made the right choice, just to mention one example. Or a universe where God freely offered the fruits of both Knowledge and Life to the human pair, enjoying them becoming like Him.

but then again: that wouldn't have been in His image and our love wouldn't have been freely given, nor would we have the possibility to reject His love.

If such a thing as free will can exist in the presence of omniscience and omnipotence, then it would also have been possible to create a universe where the race of Man was not doomed in the very first generation, and yet keeping that freedom of choice intact.
Besides, if Man were TRULY created in God's image, he'd
1. already possess the traits contained within the fruits of the garden (after all, God remarks that Man has "become like Us" only AFTER he has eaten of the fruit of Knowledge, and banishes him in order to avoid him becomning immortal as well. And
2. he'd be like Jesus, possibly facing temptation, but being altogether too pure and godly to make such a grievous mistake.

 

[ChaliceThunder]

Careful that mind-state describes most CF posters.

I know...heaven help me!

 

[soul_biscuit]

I believe God created the bad so that we have something to struggle against. Without the bad part, how could we overcome it and be good? We would just sit around all day and do nothing.

Sure, except the "bad part" kills millions of people every year, often in agony, regardless of whether they struggle or not. Nice gift from God, that.

 

[ChaliceThunder]

Well, I thought that if you denied that god would curse us, that you were thinking that he/she/it was blessing humanity by giving death, disease, and whatever I said before.



No, but like, I am still wondering why that god would create humanity if he would make humanity suffer later on. Does that fall into the category of biblical literalism?

I think it falls into at least some sort of Calvinistic category.

There are as many circumstances as there are people - and how do we decide what is bane and what is blessing? I know that there are some people who faced cancer, and ultimately died. But during their bout with it, they learned so much about themselves, they learned how to accept the care of others, and they learned a lot about honesty.

Then one could look at those who most people call "fortunate." Sad, empty people who chase money to fill the desperate void within. It appears "easy" for them, yet they have little or no true happiness in their lives.,

THis is a generalization, I know. But I still can't come up with a way to "blame" God for disease, etc. It's just a part of life.

 

[sk8Joyful]

3. Can you possibly show the connection between diseases (consequence of certain micro-organisms multiplying in our body,
not of nasty thoughts or deeds), natural disasters (result of weather phenomena or geological phenomena,
not of nasty thoughts or deeds) and acquiring knowledge of good and evil?
As I said before, it's one thing to attribute wars and injustices to Sin -
and altogether another to claim that man is responsible for the existence of thistles, and birth-pangs.

"birth-pangs", as you called it, arose from more unfortunately mistaken beliefs.

Ask me, daughter, & millions of other women who each of us birthed our children in fast, easy & complete Comfort.

Next question?