A simple question and ask for help

[lula]

If God intervened at some point to have a literary guide why doesnt he do it again in a modern media. Why would he want a book created that is so easy to manipulate and change and we have very little evidence about who those people were and how they were like. You can find thousands of preachers worldwide who scam people for their money yet it is asked we trust these people who wrote the bible to be honest. If god wanted to communicate with us there has to be a better way. Why would one think its wrong to look for God from inside and ask him to be part of his/her life without regard to the bible. That is what I try to do but it can be a lonely and frustrating journey and what I am asking is if there is help to find God without any material aid, ie. the bible. Please just think about it with an open mind, and please do not quote the bible for as I said I dont think its right. I am asking this out of this website because even if you follow a book I dont believe in your dedication to God might have given you some insight directly from the divine and maybe you can share some ideas of what it is and how to get close to it. Once again I please ask for an open mind and avoid using the Bible or Jesus as examples or proofs. Speak from your own mind and try to truly understand my point of view because this way our journey becomes more authentic.

 

[[serious]]

While biblical inerrancy seems to be the contemporary majority view, it is by no means universal. I would propose an alternate question for you: why would it be necessary to have a generalized literary communication to all people if God interacts with us on a personal level anyway? Why would you be looking for a contemporary scripture if you do not seem to feel the need for a first scripture?

If you are just looking to have a debate on the issue, this probably isn't the best area for that.

 

[lula]

I am sorry I should rewrite my comment, question. I wrote that asking a minister and just copied pasted and it doesnt make complete sense. I dont believe in any holy literature but there is no reason to contemplate that but I am looking for God and I do believe its possible. Its a hard struggle alone so I am looking for any input and asking religious people who through much dedication might have gained some insight that does not need literature to justify. My thought is even though I dont believe they are reading anything divine their dedication has probably brought them closer to God and I would like to know about it without referencing literature. I hope I made myself much clearer and I know its an odd question but its one I must ask.

 

[salida]

You have a lot of preassumptions that arn't true at all.

I don't need to quote the bible here. First, the bible is the most true book in the world with overwhelming circumstancial evidence: read The Evidence That Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell (it would stand up in a court of law concerning overwhelming evidence) and Examine the Evidence by Muncaster(a former athiest).

Second, those who use the bible for personal gain arn't christians but hyprocrites.

Third, I won't use the bible as proof but your hurting yourself because there are hundreds of detailed prophesies in it. No book compares to this at all. Show me a book that has 66 authors in it - that came from different time periods - have different occupations and they are agree. Go to all the librarys in the world and you won't find one except the Bible.

People who manipulate it are self serving and don't read the bible by knowing what the author intended because they are willfully ignorant. Yes, this attitude is easy for those who are self serving and don't serve Jesus.

 

[drich0150]

Why would he want a book created that is so easy to manipulate and change and we have very little evidence about who those people were and how they were like.

Because as it is Those who truly want to find God will seek him through all sorts "chaff" to find a kernel of truth. Our relationship with God in this life is not about the final destination, but the journey. When you place a seemingly indisputable truth before people, they tend to worship the vessel of truth, and not the truth giver.. This also places the earthly master of God's vessel of truth in a position of absolute power.. (IE: Pharisees in OT times, The Pope during the dark ages.)

Now we are able (If so inclined) to find our own way. All who truly wan to find God do so, those who seek religion and tradition will find what they seek, and those who want to point and blame God for not providing absolute proof are able to do so as well.. IMO scripture is absolutely perfect the way it is.

 

[salida]

lula - If I gave you more evidence, would you consider it? Whats that old saying, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink it. I can give even more evidence but if the will of a person already has their mind made up - its irrelevant.

 

[Van]

Hi Lulu, your question is a good one.

Lets start with the concept that the Bible is not the "best" way to communicate with us. The Bible says God communicates in a number of ways, such as the heavens declare His glory. And we know of God by what He has made. So this revelation, the physical universe is called "general revelation" and proclaims "creation" rather than "happenstance" and thus suggests a "creator." The "Uncaused Cause."

Is it wrong to look for God "from the inside" without regard to what the Bible says? Think of a person who was born, lived and died and was never exposed to the Bible. Should not these children of the "creator-God" seek the divine? Of course they should. And how are they judged, since they never heard of Moses and the Law, let alone Jesus and the grace of God. What if they were judged based on what they knew. Did they treat others like they treated themselves, or did they lie and steal?

The bottom line is to live in a way that has integrity, take care of those less fortunate, and be a blessing to others. You mentioned looking for God internally, and what exactly do you think you would find: How about "love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control."

 

[lula]

thank you all for the replies.
Salida I am not looking for proof on the bible, I am looking for a way without any religion. I dont want to argue about this and I know saying anything more might not help but I just feel like I have to say just because an author "proves" the bible would stand up in court I am sure that there are a lot of assumptions and wrong information. I am sure I can find books that say the Koran or any other book is completely authentic. Thats just my 2-cents and like I said I dont wish to start a discussion, I respect your belief I just like to point out what I think.

Van
great response. I asked the same question above to a priest and a minister. The minister said that to look for God from inside "how can we look within ourselves for the answers when all that lies within us is wicked and utterly sinful..". I completely disagree with this and is just another reason religions dont appeal to me. When I look inside I see great positive things. Of course we all have faults but in general I would consider myself with very positive ideas and emotions.

The priest on the other hand gave a very good answer. That to just look from inside you can confuse you with God but what I found most interesting is that he said it is a very limiting view and restrictive.

So where does this leave my poor soul trying to find God but unable to believe in the language of man ?

An idea I originally considered and pursued but have since forgotten about is that their is the language of man (and animals) and then there is the language of the world. Math, physics, biology...etc. This language is in many ways is almost perfect, it needs no translation and it is true no matter what. Sometimes we get it wrong but we are always looking for the right answer because their is no bias in its truth. When we learn this language we truly understand and this language was put their by the creator and we can never change that. This is a big reason I study engineering.

Is there any thought out there about this ? Understanding the world and how it works to understand its creator ? and also looking inside and in some way integrating it all. The watch argument to try and disprove evolution and instead of focusing if it just happened or if it was created a would suggest a different idea. So if you find the watch and you know it was created and you cant find the creator how would you best try and understand him ? Understanding the creation itself.

 

[the.Sheepdog]

Lula dear, I have two degrees in the engineering sciences. Electrical and electronic technical. BASEET and BSEE

When you study the upper levels of math and physics you will begin to see a wonderful order to the universe. Not chaos at all.

The measurement of a butterfly's glide angle of attack in flight is the same in biirds and also in pulsars and the pyramids construction. That constant? Pi. 3.14

Their are so many other constants and formulae that for me prove the existance of God rather than of no God. No way to be random and still use the same contants the universe over.

The bible talks of God being outside of time and we know now that this is possible with more than just the 4 dimensions. (time being the 4th)

Superstring theory speaks of multiples of definite dimensions likely. Math and physics was what brought me back to God from my childhood.

I dont have a religious relationship, I just have a relationship with God. Religion is of man. It is Man's attempt to understand. It is pretty flawed we find.

Dont give up trying to understand. It is very worth it. and as an engineer you will be in a unique position to know and enjoy the truth of math and science and physics and it will open your universe up.

I will always be around if you would like to talk more.

 

[freeport]

If God intervened at some point to have a literary guide why doesnt he do it again in a modern media. Why would he want a book created that is so easy to manipulate and change and we have very little evidence about who those people were and how they were like. You can find thousands of preachers worldwide who scam people for their money yet it is asked we trust these people who wrote the bible to be honest. If god wanted to communicate with us there has to be a better way. Why would one think its wrong to look for God from inside and ask him to be part of his/her life without regard to the bible. That is what I try to do but it can be a lonely and frustrating journey and what I am asking is if there is help to find God without any material aid, ie. the bible. Please just think about it with an open mind, and please do not quote the bible for as I said I dont think its right. I am asking this out of this website because even if you follow a book I dont believe in your dedication to God might have given you some insight directly from the divine and maybe you can share some ideas of what it is and how to get close to it. Once again I please ask for an open mind and avoid using the Bible or Jesus as examples or proofs. Speak from your own mind and try to truly understand my point of view because this way our journey becomes more authentic.

Christian symbolism is drenched in popular, Western media. Countless authors and screenwriters are Christian and express Christian concepts and stories from God's inspiration in metaphoric form. They don't have to tout it.

America is vast majority Christian, as are most other free world countries.

As for the Bible, this assumption it has many flaws from translation and such is flawed. We have very ancient copies to check against.

Sounds like you need to open your mind. If you want to be sure about not getting Christian media you need to go to China or Saudi Arabia.

They don't have an understanding of good and evil like the West does, however... so don't expect to find any interesting stories there: you know, guy loves, tries to save the world, suffers through great adversity, and wins in the end?

Kind of sounds like Jesus.

That is the story.

Frankly, what you have here is a lot of thieves that take from God the basics of the Bible, twist it around, sign their name on it... and then they get praised for it. It is idiotic. When they are not Christian.

When they are Christian, I don't care much if they don't proclaim loudly, "This is really from my Christian faith" or other such nonsense: you would then find it highly offensive. Hence, we speak in metaphor.

But, whatever, it isn't like I sit around and worry about how all of the people are doing who hate us.

It is annoying, however, to hear such shallow views from people... usually they get these views because their parents belonged to somesort of Pharisee cult dressed up as Christian. Or they had some other bad experience... or they join some subculture that demands it of them.

After all, who else has the gumption to discount the faith of the vast majority, but Pharisee sorts? They are the ones that say "well, that 80%+ aren't really Christian". Like they are God who can judge that.

 

[Mr.Cheese]

.

 

[lula]

freeport
I dont know what you were trying to get at. You seem angry at what I first wrote but Im not sure why and I have moved on from the first question.

Sheepdog
Its good to hear from a fellow engineer.
What I was trying to get at is a little bit different than what you were writing about. You state that with the neat chaotic order of the world and how things seem to fall into perfect harmony indicates a creator. What I am asking is why do we stop there? Why dont we explore the laws in existence and try to understand what it tells us about ourselves and how the world is. Instead of the story of Job why dont we look at the "story" of moving an object and all the mechanics behind that. I.e The more mass an object has the harder it is to move, the tougher obstacles we face are always the hardest. Once you move an object resistance decreases and once you take on the obstacle head on and pass the beginning which is the hardest part it becomes easier.

I know its a very simplistic idea of a moving object but I just wanted to give an idea of what I was saying. Has anyone done this ? In a sense take these natural laws and apply it to a spiritual or philosophical idea.

Mr Cheese
I am not trying to attack or change anyone's belief. If you understand that the bible has the normal bias of human beings than you understand that things arnt the way they appear to be. That is why I am saying the language of math, physics..etc might hold some answers. It is not bias, you cant change it because you dont like it. I would think that the message of God is one that requires dedication and that cannot be altered. Sure someone can say the sky is purple to manipulate you but that wont make the sky purple, all you have to do is look up to see the truth.

P.S. I use Story of Job as an example and I dont mean to attack the bible although I suppose I am. I would just like to state again that I respect everyone's belief and that is a reason I am writing on a Christian board because I respect the dedication and I think even though Im not using the Bible I am sure you guys can give me some great insight. We might be using different "tools" but I think its important to note that we are all trying to get to the same truth. I like to think as people on the same journey at a rest area comparing notes.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

I have had some experiences you may find interesting. They are true stories from my life. Experiences with God.

One morning I got up and walked into the hall and I heard a voice say "How would you like to be stabbed in the Valley". The Valley was the rough end of town, and the voice scared me a little, I wondered if I had done something to offend God. I had planned to go down to the Valley to ask people out to church as was my habit at the time. In the end I went anyway regardless of the fear. I walked up to the first person I met and asked him if he would like to go out to church. He said to me "I am an atheist, I don't believe in God". I just said "fine", but hoped to change his mind. He then proceeded to unbutton his shirt and showed me scar marks up and down his chest and stomach. He said to me, "I was attacked by a knife wielding man in the Valley some time ago and spent months recovering in hospital, How could God allow that to happen to me". Then I knew why God had said in the morning "How would I like to be stabbed?". God understood this man, but had a good plan for him. Some weeks latter this man came out to church and became a Christian.

Some time after the second Gulf War an Australian man Douglas Wood was captured by terrorists in Iraq, who made demands for a ransom or he would be executed. I set about fasting and praying for his release, I said to God "You know where he is....tell me". Three words entered my mind ABC, Bizaar and "A-meal". I thought "I am going crazy what has all that got to do with him. Bizaar I though "this is Bizarre". I thought maybe "A-meal" is a town so I searched a map of Iraq for a town of that name, but found nothing that really matched. Some time latter Douglas Wood was freed by US troops who came across his captors. It was not until latter that I actually discovered what the three words meant. I was on a forum libertyunites.us and came across a post by a user called ABC in the post she appealed to the captors to release Douglas Wood because he had gone to a/or the Bazaar and bought food for homeless people and had provided them with "A-meal". I believe God saw this action too and blessed Douglas Wood with an escape from his captors.

One time I thought about suing some one but felt bad about it because I did not want to give a bad impression about what a Christian is like. So I prayed and asked God to show me clearly what to do. Latter that day I opened my bible at random, selecting a random verse and it opened to 1Co 6:7 "Nay, already it is altogether a defect in you, that ye have lawsuits one with another. Why not rather take wrong? why not rather be defrauded?" So I knew what God was thinking, no lawsuit.

At one point in my life I was praying for scientific cures for illnesses like cancer. Because I was on a science kick I thought would it not be fun to create a real life dinosaur. I wanted Jesus just for fun to show me how to create a Real Live Dinosaur, he can show us anything you know if he wants, but when I asked him how to start recreating a Dinosaur. Jesus spoke into my head the sentence "I bood", it entered my mind when I was awake, a term I had never heard before. I decided to look it up on the Internet and I found out the following: You see, the children of Semai are taught from an early age, the concept of "bood." If a parent asks a child to do something and the child replies "I bood," in other words, "I don't feel like doing that," the matter is closed. Bood means gently No.

One day I was witnessing to a Muslim and he asked me why we ate pork. I used the verse out of the bible which says "It is not what enters the mouth that defiles a man but what comes out of the mouth". After some general discussion I finished for the night. I asked God to give me a verse from the bible to encourage me. I opened the bible at random and selected a random verse. It opened to the exact same verse that I had used with the Muslim. The one about food not defiling. So I knew that God was approving of what I had been talking about.
"What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him "unclean.'"- Mat

You could try talking to God, expecting an answer. I am sure he will comunicate with you. As for me I don't think you will find God with out the bible.