A sheriff hopeful admitted in an ad that he wore blackface. He’s not apologizing.

SoldierOfTheKing

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That incident made me understand how lucky I am not being a person of color in America. It was the beginning of my learning how badly the 'playing field' is tilted in my favor.

Train.jpg


...maybe somebody should tell them, because they're not getting the message.
 
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zephcom

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What a dim view of people of color.



Playing field? Are we locked in some competition of white vs black that I wasn't aware of?



How? How do they know? How should they decide?



Well zeph...that's all you can really do. You can't make an "unconscious" or "instinctual" effort to not be racist. Anyone blaming you for "unconscious behavior" is blaming you for things beyond your control.



Because they have the right to judge you....because of your race?



Then why would the judgement of such people matter?
That may be a dim view of people of color in your eyes. It isn't in mine. The comment had no reflection on people of color. Rather it had reflection on the way the dominate race in America, my race, has conspired to make the system work against them. I'm not sure I would have the character to match theirs as they live in America. It makes me lucky to not have to find out whether I could cut it as a person of color or not.

As far as a playing field goes, don't play dumb on me now. It is a well known metaphor for how life is different for white people than it is for colored people.

How do they know if I've changed enough? That is up to them. It is no longer my place to make decisions for them. Giving up 'control' is one of the hardest things to do. For once, they can set the standards and I will either live up to them or not.

Actually, I can learn to control unconscious behavior. First it has to be pointed out to me. After that it is my responsibility to keep in my consciousness and work on fixing it.

They have the right to judge me because of the oppression that I was part of even if my part was passive and/or unknowing.

I didn't say their judgement mattered to me. I merely agreed with you that some people will never stop hating and used them as an example of such people.
 
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Ana the Ist

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That may be a dim view of people of color in your eyes. It isn't in mine. The comment had no reflection on people of color. Rather it had reflection on the way the dominate race in America, my race, has conspired to make the system work against them.

Conspired? Have you been a part of these conspiracies? I've been white my entire life and no one ever asked me to conspire against a person of color.


I'm not sure I would have the character to match theirs as they live in America. It makes me lucky to not have to find out whether I could cut it as a person of color or not.

Because of the conspiracy?

As far as a playing field goes, don't play dumb on me now. It is a well known metaphor for how life is different for white people than it is for colored people.

In what way? I'm just asking what you mean by the metaphor. Do you really see this as a competition between whites and blacks?

Life is different for literally everyone....white or black.

How do they know if I've changed enough? That is up to them. It is no longer my place to make decisions for them. Giving up 'control' is one of the hardest things to do. For once, they can set the standards and I will either live up to them or not.

You still haven't explained what it is you need to change?

Actually, I can learn to control unconscious behavior. First it has to be pointed out to me. After that it is my responsibility to keep in my consciousness and work on fixing it.

That's just conscious behavior. You cannot, by definition, be "aware" of unconscious behavior.

For that matter....neither can anyone else.

They have the right to judge me because of the oppression that I was part of even if my part was passive and/or unknowing.

How do you unknowingly "oppress" people?

I didn't say their judgement mattered to me. I merely agreed with you that some people will never stop hating and used them as an example of such people.

Ok...

How do you know that the people you're letting "judge" you as racist or not....don't also judge you for dumb reasons? How do you know they don't just hate you because you're white?
 
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zephcom

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Conspired? Have you been a part of these conspiracies? I've been white my entire life and no one ever asked me to conspire against a person of color.




Because of the conspiracy?



In what way? I'm just asking what you mean by the metaphor. Do you really see this as a competition between whites and blacks?

Life is different for literally everyone....white or black.



You still haven't explained what it is you need to change?



That's just conscious behavior. You cannot, by definition, be "aware" of unconscious behavior.

For that matter....neither can anyone else.



How do you unknowingly "oppress" people?



Ok...

How do you know that the people you're letting "judge" you as racist or not....don't also judge you for dumb reasons? How do you know they don't just hate you because you're white?


One does not need to be an active participant in a conspiracy to still have responsibilities. Being a good citizen means knowing what one's representatives are doing in one's name. For most of my life I just bounced around assuming that 'my' life was just like everyone else's life because I trusted those in charge. I misplaced my trust because I didn't do my due diligence. You may well feel exonerated from responsibility because no one actively enlisted you into the conspiracy, I don't.

What I mean by the metaphor is that white people simply get treated better at all stages of life than people of color. It is even the small things like us white people can drive an expensive car without being stopped to find out if we really own it or not.

I don't think I have to 'know' if they are judging me fairly or not. I do know that they will not accept that I judge myself fairly. I guess it has to do with just being willing to trust them.
 
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SummerMadness

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That incident made me understand how lucky I am not being a person of color in America. It was the beginning of my learning how badly the 'playing field' is tilted in my favor.

I think it is up to those people who have suffered by the racism to decide my 'fate' as a racist. After all, they know far more about the damages and how the damages occurred than I do.

I do make a conscious effort to not be racist. It isn't my conscious that can get me in trouble. It is my unconscious that can cause problems because I'm just not aware enough to grasp the tiny things that also trigger unintended consequences too.

To decide whether I'm progressing satisfactorily.

Of course some people will never accept me despite how much progress I make in this journey. But Trump's fanboys will hate me just for being alive and a Democrat.
Unfortunately, the racists will attack you for wanting to move in a more positive direction. I think instead of trying to not be racist, a better approach is to seek an antiracist solution (i.e., acting in a manner that addresses racism).

Just to give an example, the guy running for sheriff here doesn’t say anything is wrong with blackface, he’s simply saying he did it to show his honesty and integrity? Being “not racist” is saying you won’t wear blackface, being antiracist is calling blackface racist and recognizing your part in perpetuating that racism; even if you choose to not apologize, saying that you would work towards addressing the conditions that would allow for such a law enforcement function to occur in the first place.

While you’re not at fault for all your thoughts and actions in the past, you do have the power to make decisions that promote racial equity; I think that is a more achievable goal than trying to be “not racist.”
 
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Ana the Ist

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One does not need to be an active participant in a conspiracy to still have responsibilities.

By definition.. if you're not "in" on a conspiracy, you aren't a part of it.

: to join in a secret agreement to do an unlawful or wrongful act or an act which becomes unlawful as a result of the secret agreement

For most of my life I just bounced around assuming that 'my' life was just like everyone else's life because I trusted those in charge.

Who is in charge of your life? Have you not made your own decisions?

You may well feel exonerated from responsibility because no one actively enlisted you into the conspiracy, I don't.

I don't think there is a conspiracy.

What I mean by the metaphor is that white people simply get treated better at all stages of life than people of color. It is even the small things like us white people can drive an expensive car without being stopped to find out if we really own it or not.

I hate to tell you this...but you're just trading one set of assumptions about people's lives for another. One that is, sadly, just based on race....and assumptions about race.

Do you honestly think that you can look at someone's skin color and determine how much "difficulty" they've been through?

I don't think I have to 'know' if they are judging me fairly or not. I do know that they will not accept that I judge myself fairly. I guess it has to do with just being willing to trust them.

Because they're better at judging these things than you? Here you are...a guy consciously trying to not be racist...and you don't trust your own judgment of this? Why?
 
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IceJad

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The "Be Better" argument is something I can't get behind. Not because I choose not to change or act like a decent human being, but rather I dislike the connotation the phrase comes from.

What I'm hearing when the "Be Better" is used is that regardless of who I'm now, things of the past that I have no control over is my fault by association and I have to at least acknowledge that I have been privileged to benefit from it. Utterly ridiculous. Sins of the father are not the sins of the son.

Why "Be Better"? It's because I'm not good enough now in your eyes. You want to make it my responsibility to change myself to meet up to your standard which can be a moving goal post. No one should be chained to the moral perception of others. It reeks of holier than thou.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to be a better person. But there is definitely something wrong when being told by a person who do not even know you to "Be Better". This is a subject that I have posted before.

Perpetual Victimhood Concept

Before anyone jumps on me saying I belong to a certain privileged race and US political leaning, please know I'm neither American or said privileged race. I have nothing to gain in support of either side of US politics.
 
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zephcom

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The "Be Better" argument is something I can't get behind. Not because I choose not to change or act like a decent human being, but rather I dislike the connotation the phrase comes from.

What I'm hearing when the "Be Better" is used is that regardless of who I'm now, things of the past that I have no control over is my fault by association and I have to at least acknowledge that I have been privileged to benefit from it. Utterly ridiculous. Sins of the father are not the sins of the son.

Why "Be Better"? It's because I'm not good enough now in your eyes. You want to make it my responsibility to change myself to meet up to your standard which can be a moving goal post. No one should be chained to the moral perception of others. It reeks of holier than thou.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to be a better person. But there is definitely something wrong when being told by a person who do not even know you to "Be Better". This is a subject that I have posted before.

Perpetual Victimhood Concept

Before anyone jumps on me saying I belong to a certain privileged race and US political leaning, please know I'm neither American or said privileged race. I have nothing to gain in support of either side of US politics.
I didn't think I was saying that everyone should be better. I was talking about me being better. And I would like to see America's society and governments as institutions be better. Each and every single person being better isn't likely to ever happen.

I, personally, think that all of us are here in this physical plane to give us the opportunity to grow our spirituality by becoming better people. But that is something each person does in their own way and their own time. As I said earlier, I discovered these issues within my life and decided I needed to change to grow my spirituality.

But I'm good with you staying just as you are if that is what you choose.
 
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zephcom

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By definition.. if you're not "in" on a conspiracy, you aren't a part of it.

: to join in a secret agreement to do an unlawful or wrongful act or an act which becomes unlawful as a result of the secret agreement



Who is in charge of your life? Have you not made your own decisions?



I don't think there is a conspiracy.



I hate to tell you this...but you're just trading one set of assumptions about people's lives for another. One that is, sadly, just based on race....and assumptions about race.

Do you honestly think that you can look at someone's skin color and determine how much "difficulty" they've been through?



Because they're better at judging these things than you? Here you are...a guy consciously trying to not be racist...and you don't trust your own judgment of this? Why?

<shrug> I'm good with you not thinking there is a conspiracy. But your thinking that does not change my mind.

No. You don't hate to tell that. You delight in telling me that. The issue IS racism, of course my discussion will be about racism.

It doesn't mean they are better judges than I am. They may be or they may not be. I'm simply not going to continue exercising the privilege bestowed on me by telling people of color that I have finally achieved my goal of dealing with my racism and they should just move on. This time I'm comfortable enough with myself to give away that control and leave it up to them.

Your attempts to appeal to my ego in order to bring me back into the privileged circle will fail. Equality for all is a noble ideal. I kinda like being part of a noble idea even if it is just a small part.
 
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Ana the Ist

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<shrug> I'm good with you not thinking there is a conspiracy. But your thinking that does not change my mind.

Ok.

No. You don't hate to tell that. You delight in telling me that. The issue IS racism, of course my discussion will be about racism.

Wouldn't it be better not to make assumptions about people's lives based on their race?

It doesn't mean they are better judges than I am. They may be or they may not be. I'm simply not going to continue exercising the privilege bestowed on me by telling people of color that I have finally achieved my goal of dealing with my racism and they should just move on. This time I'm comfortable enough with myself to give away that control and leave it up to them.

Some people are happy having others do the thinking for them....I understand that.

Your attempts to appeal to my ego

It's really an appeal to common sense.

in order to bring me back into the privileged circle will fail.

You're either privileged or you aren't. You don't get to choose not to be by "agreeing" with those shaming you. It's not something that you can consciously avoid.

Equality for all is a noble ideal.

What's "equal" about valuing the judgment of people based on their race?
 
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zephcom

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Ok.



Wouldn't it be better not to make assumptions about people's lives based on their race?



Some people are happy having others do the thinking for them....I understand that.



It's really an appeal to common sense.



You're either privileged or you aren't. You don't get to choose not to be by "agreeing" with those shaming you. It's not something that you can consciously avoid.



What's "equal" about valuing the judgment of people based on their race?
<smile> The only one trying to shame me is you.
 
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tall73

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It is a difficult situation. My parents took me to a minstrel show back the Fifties where the actors wore blackface. I grew up in a nearly 100 percent white community. I didn't even realize the real life issues which surrounded racial issues until the Michael Brown incident in Ferguson.

So you didn't know racism existed from the 50's until 2014? Or do you mean something else by that. That seems almost impossible.
 
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IceJad

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Here are my personal opinion on how things can be better society wise. Surprisingly all from Scriptures.

1. Do unto others what you want others to do unto you. Matthew 7:12 & Luke 6:31
2. Love one another as God loves us. John 13:34
3. Judge not for you shall be judge by your own standard. Matthew 7:2
4. Before correcting others make sure you correct yourself first. Matthew 7:5
5. Be understanding of one another, be readily forgiving as God has forgiven us. Colossians 3:13

To sum them up. Live and let live. Stop finger pointing and virtue signalling. Just be good.
 
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Ana the Ist

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<smile> The only one trying to shame me is you.

Right....it's not the people who have convinced you you're part of some hidden conspiracy against them. It's not the folks that told you that you must be subconsciously racist. It's not the people who want you to factor race into everything because they do....

It's me lol the guy saying you shouldn't make assumptions about people's lives, experiences, or the value of their opinions based on their skin color.

One can only wonder why you think that idea is shameful.
 
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Ana the Ist

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So you didn't know racism existed from the 50's until 2014? Or do you mean something else by that. That seems almost impossible.

Sometimes people say things that make me wonder if they truly believe that....or if they say such things because they believe it's what others want to hear.
 
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SummerMadness

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Here are my personal opinion on how things can be better society wise. Surprisingly all from Scriptures.

1. Do unto others what you want others to do unto you. Matthew 7:12 & Luke 6:31
2. Love one another as God loves us. John 13:34
3. Judge not for you shall be judge by your own standard. Matthew 7:2
4. Before correcting others make sure you correct yourself first. Matthew 7:5
5. Be understanding of one another, be readily forgiving as God has forgiven us. Colossians 3:13

To sum them up. Live and let live. Stop finger pointing and virtue signalling. Just be good.
Virtue signalling are the folks expressing outrage to maintain the status quo and dismiss racism.
 
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IceJad

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Virtue signalling are the folks expressing outrage to maintain the status quo and dismiss racism.

Then you have to explain what the status quo is? Is it a generally accepted status quo or just your own perspective?

As a non-American I would like to hear of this "status quo" you said. And I want to gauge if others have the same.
 
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