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A setback I'm facing

Lady Bug

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I was doing well, thinking I had the right direction spiritually but I'm at a roadblock again, and it feels bad. I don't know where else to post this, because I was looking to see if any other place was appropriate but I can't find any.

I understand that since the Fall, man cannot reconcile to God by his own efforts, and that paves the way for Jesus Christ to be that reconciliation, but since He is that reconciliation, why do we still have to maintain good standing with God by our works? Now don't get me wrong, there are Bible verses that plainly show how we don't just believe in Jesus, but OBEY Jesus too, but I don't know what to think right now.
 

ripple the car

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Oooooh! I love Soteriology! Yay!

Ok, so, God saves us by His grace. But this grace is something that we must also respond to and cooperate with willfully through how we live.

We trust in Christ. We also follow Him.

So, it's a journey. God saves us. Through our faith in Christ, and through what we do in Christ, too.
 
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Lady Bug

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Oooooh! I love Soteriology! Yay!

Ok, so, God saves us by His grace. But this grace is something that we must also respond to and cooperate with willfully through how we live.

We trust in Christ. We also follow Him.

So, it's a journey. God saves us. Through our faith in Christ, and through what we do in Christ, too.
I do agree that it isn't just God doing everything (that would be tantamount to Calvinism if I'm not mistaken), that we are cooperating with him too, I'm just really trying to understand, how is this all different than "doing the best we can in this life and hope for the best in the next world"? I'm not trying to cause any problem, and I'm not even going to purport myself as "debating," I'm not trying to do that :)
 
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ripple the car

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Because as we do our best, we realize that anything that we do well, any virtue we have or practice, is a mercy, a gift, from God, and we do it through His grace, and with His help. We are climbing the ladder, yet God has made the ladder, given strength to climb, and sustains us physically and interiorly as we climb.
 
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Lady Bug

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Because as we do our best, we realize that anything that we do well, any virtue we have or practice, is a mercy, a gift, from God, and we do it through His grace, and with His help. We are climbing the ladder, yet God has made the ladder, given strength to climb, and sustains us physically and interiorly as we climb.
I actually understand. Do you think that if you were in another faith that didn't have this philosophy, yet still were to do works, that you would feel differently when doing those works? Do you feel God's help when you do works? Just wondering :)
 
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ripple the car

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I actually understand. Do you think that if you were in another faith that didn't have this philosophy, yet still were to do works, that you would feel differently when doing those works? Do you feel God's help when you do works? Just wondering :)
So, now, I think, I'm beginning to see how incredibly weak and slow I really am. I do sense and see clearly God's help and grace acting whever I am able to get something right. It's a huge gift. I see anything I can do as a part of my salvation, and recognize immediately that it is God's grace that is helping me to do anything loving, selfless, good, or righteous, at all.
 
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Lady Bug

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So, now, I think, I'm beginning to see how incredibly weak and slow I really am. I do sense and see clearly God's help and grace acting whever I am able to get something right. It's a huge gift. I see anything I can do as a part of my salvation, and recognize immediately that it is God's grace that is helping me to do anything loving, selfless, good, or righteous, at all.
Now that I think about it, I think that some things that I used to do that I hate now, I have stopped doing not on my own but because God has helped me, so I think I get what you're saying :)
 
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Aussie Pete

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I was doing well, thinking I had the right direction spiritually but I'm at a roadblock again, and it feels bad. I don't know where else to post this, because I was looking to see if any other place was appropriate but I can't find any.

I understand that since the Fall, man cannot reconcile to God by his own efforts, and that paves the way for Jesus Christ to be that reconciliation, but since He is that reconciliation, why do we still have to maintain good standing with God by our works? Now don't get me wrong, there are Bible verses that plainly show how we don't just believe in Jesus, but OBEY Jesus too, but I don't know what to think right now.
There is something perverse about human understanding. We get it back to front. Read Ephesians again. It starts with wonderful and encouraging affirmations about who we are in Christ. Paul then goes on to advise how we should be living in the light of who we are in Christ. Most Christians think that they have to do something to please God. That is not true. God does not even see us any more (Colossians 3:3).

God has zero expectations of us. He knows that we are helpless and hopeless apart from Christ. God is satisfied with Christ. We have a righteousness that is a gift, not by works. Ask God to open your eyes to see this truth. You really are a new creation, you have the life of Christ within, the Cross puts the old to death. What more do you want? I hope, nothing. Because if you are born again, you have it all. All we need to do now is discover and enjoy what God has done for us in His Son. Quit trying. Start living in the reality of who you are in Christ. Learn to walk in the Spirit. You will make some mistakes. That is no big deal to God. It's how we learn.

Don't punish yourself. That makes a mockery of the death of Jesus who was punished for you. Speak the truth of who you are in Christ at the start of every day. Invite the Lord Jesus to live out His life in you, through and in place of you. He's just waiting for you to ask.
 
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pdudgeon

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I was doing well, thinking I had the right direction spiritually but I'm at a roadblock again, and it feels bad. I don't know where else to post this, because I was looking to see if any other place was appropriate but I can't find any.

I understand that since the Fall, man cannot reconcile to God by his own efforts, and that paves the way for Jesus Christ to be that reconciliation, but since He is that reconciliation, why do we still have to maintain good standing with God by our works? Now don't get me wrong, there are Bible verses that plainly show how we don't just believe in Jesus, but OBEY Jesus too, but I don't know what to think right now.

I think the connection that you're missing here is the "why" of what we do as Christians (also known as the motivation). So let's start from the beginning.

One of the easiest ways to finding that connection is to look at how God interacted with men (and women) in regards to both His law, man's breaking of God's law, His forgiveness, and lastly in His punishments for their sins against Him.

Pay particular attention in the book of Leviticus to the penalty for sin, who suffers for it, what they give, and how the penalty increases.

The reason for that increase is that sin itself drives us further from the presence of the goodness and holiness of God, and His fellowship with us.
God doesn't move, it's us and the sin inside of us that propels us further away from the shining presence of God's perfection, and His good examples.

So the further we go from His presence seeking a place where we can feel comfortable and can justify our sin, the longer it will take us to get back to His presence, the more we have to pay for our forsaking the fellowship that we have lost, and the greater effort we have to put forth in order to change our ways and our direction from going away from God into returning to Him.

And all the time that we're doing this return, our vague sense of discomfort turns into a real sense of guilt and shame as we realize what our sin has cost us.

But it's not guilt or shame or efforts or a sacrifice of retribution that brings us back and restores us to God's good graces. Only our love of God and His love for us can bring us all the way back into communion with Him once again. That love is what impels us to return to Him.

And when we realize that, then our feet cannot move us fast enough, no gift is too costly, and no efforts are too great because all of that pales when we compare it to our need to return to the love that God bears for us, or to once again unite with the sacrifice that Jesus paid to redeem us, or to claim the restored future fellowship that we will share with God once again.

And that's when we truly realize the worth of our fellowship with Him, and when we begin to understand that God's gift of unmerited grace to us is worth much more than just works or sacrifice.

As Judas finally realized, there is no price that we can put on our relationship with God, on His forgiveness, His love, or His sacrifice of His only Son for our sake.

Being able to admit that is what brings us the final step of the way back home, and into the heart and the presence of God once more.
 
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