A serious discussion.

[DeaconDean]

Given the course of this thread, and the overwhelming response that I was wrong in believing and teaching that "justification was by faith" as Paul taught.

I placed a call to my seminary teacher.

I think what we have here is wrong terminology.

You guys are taking the life, and ministry of Jesus while here on earth, and saying that that was a "work".

Now see it this way.

I have already supplied the definition for the word "justify" above.

Now you guys are telling me that Jesus had to "work" to be made/rendered right, just before or with God.

Jesus had to "work" to act with justice before or with God.

Jesus had to "work" to be acouched as good and true before or with God

Jesus had to "work" to be "vindicated" before or with God.

Jesus had to "work" to be set forth as good and true before or with God.

Jesus had to "work" to be held guiltless before or with God.

Jesus had to "work" to be accepted as righteous before or with God.

Jesus had to "work" to be held acquitted before or with God.

Jesus had to "work" to be cleared before or with God.

Jesus had to "work" to be approved before or with God.

Jesus had to "work" to be accepted before or with God.

Remember, somebody said earlier:

Justification with God is by works and not by faith.

And somebody else said: Justification technically is by works, just not ours.

If justification with God was by works, just not ours, then salvation came by "works" by the same virtue.

Jesus had to "work" to earn not only His salvation, but ours as well.

Righteousness also came by "works".

Jesus had to "work" to not only earn His righteousness, but ours as well.

Sanctification, also came by "works", just not ours.

Jesus was not in and of Himself, already righteous, justified before or with God, it took "works". And that is what you are telling me.

That is the very clear message that is being said.

So, I gues the apostle Paul was wrong.

Justification is not by faith. Justification with God is by works, just not our works.

Jesus' life and ministry was nothing more than a "work" which earned His righteousness, justification, eternal life, etc before or with God.

That is the very clear message I am getting here.

Look for no further responses from me in this thread.

I am wrong!

I am unsubscribing.

I am also now, seriously considering leaving the Baptist faith.

All of it is wrong.

And, I have asked for this thread to be closed.

 

[mlqurgw]

Given the course of this thread, and the overwhelming response that I was wrong in believing and teaching that "justification was by faith" as Paul taught.

I placed a call to my seminary teacher.

I think what we have here is wrong terminology.

You guys are taking the life, and ministry of Jesus while here on earth, and saying that that was a "work".

Now see it this way.

I have already supplied the definition for the word "justify" above.

Now you guys are telling me that Jesus had to "work" to be made/rendered right, just before or with God.

Jesus had to "work" to act with justice before or with God.

Jesus had to "work" to be acouched as good and true before or with God

Jesus had to "work" to be "vindicated" before or with God.

Jesus had to "work" to be set forth as good and true before or with God.

Jesus had to "work" to be held guiltless before or with God.

Jesus had to "work" to be accepted as righteous before or with God.

Jesus had to "work" to be held acquitted before or with God.

Jesus had to "work" to be cleared before or with God.

Jesus had to "work" to be approved before or with God.

Jesus had to "work" to be accepted before or with God.

Remember, somebody said earlier:

Justification with God is by works and not by faith.

And somebody else said: Justification technically is by works, just not ours.

If justification with God was by works, just not ours, then salvation came by "works" by the same virtue.

Jesus had to "work" to earn not only His salvation, but ours as well.

Righteousness also came by "works".

Jesus had to "work" to not only earn His righteousness, but ours as well.

Sanctification, also came by "works", just not ours.

Jesus was not in and of Himself, already righteous, justified before or with God, it took "works". And that is what you are telling me.

That is the very clear message that is being said.

So, I gues the apostle Paul was wrong.

Justification is not by faith. Justification with God is by works, just not our works.

Jesus' life and ministry was nothing more than a "work" which earned His righteousness, justification, eternal life, etc before or with God.

That is the very clear message I am getting here.

Look for no further responses from me in this thread.

I am wrong!

I am unsubscribing.

I am also now, seriously considering leaving the Baptist faith.

All of it is wrong.

And, I have asked for this thread to be closed.

As God He didn't need to be justified by anything that He "worked". Since it is man that needed justification it was a Man, the Man who is Himself God, who did that which was required. He merited by His perfect life as the Representative and Surety of His people what they could not merit. He di what Adam could not do. Everything He did while He was here on this world He did not for Himself but for all those whom He represented. He became obedient as the servant of God even unto death. Phil. 2:8-9 His obedience was our obedience. His righteousness is our righteousness. God is pleased with what He did and is pleased with us because He did it in our place. Our faith isn't the cause of our justification the person and work of Christ is. He brought in an everlasting righteousness by His perfect life and made an atonement for sin by His death. He did what we could not do. That in no way disputes what Paul says or teaches. I honestly don't believe we as far apart as you think.

 

[edie19]

MOD HAT ON

Thread Closed per OP request

MOD HAT OFF
​