A Scriptural perspective on faith and works

[BNR32FAN]

.

Reading the New Testament accounts,

the listeners - the crowds if you will - were told to repent and be immersed in Yeshua's Name for the forgiveness of their sins. Before they were immersed, THEY CONFESSED THEIR SINS OPENLY
I think.
Confession of sins openly , in assembly?, is instructed in the New Testament (is it in the Torah/OT) ?

what passage are you quoting this from? I’m not familiar with a passage where they confessed their sins before baptism.

 

[BNR32FAN]

"According to Acts 2:38, the act of "openly confessing sins" before immersion is implied through the instruction to "repent," which means to turn away from sin and acknowledge one's wrongdoings, before being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins;

essentially, a public declaration of repentance is expected before immersion in water as a symbol of accepting Jesus as Savior."

Repentance is not confession. Repentance is turning away from sin and towards God. Confession is telling someone what sins you have committed.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

"According to Acts 2:38, the act of "openly confessing sins" before immersion is implied through the instruction to "repent," which means to turn away from sin and acknowledge one's wrongdoings, before being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins;

essentially, a public declaration of repentance is expected before immersion in water as a symbol of accepting Jesus as Savior."

Repent means to have a change of mind. It does not mean to turn away from sin. it means that you change your mind concerning God.

I do not have to openly coonfess anything to repent. I can repent in my mind, in fact. Unless I repent. I will not believe in God or what God says, because by nature we are apposed to God.

your last sentence is found no where in scripture my friend.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

p.p.s. I do not remember. If God Permits, I'll check, or you can repost them if you want to,.......

Please review. I was not asking what motivated me to get baptized. I used it as an example of what makes baptism a work of merit, vs a work of love, can you please responded to the bolded comment in the following quote.

I see it this way

what motivates me to get baptized?

1. That I want to Obey God and out of gratitude for him and love of what he gave me, I do it (i also want to share my faith with those around me)
2. I do it because I believe it is a means of being saved. that if I do not do it. I will not be saved. That it is the means of my sins bwing washed away.

Both people are doing the same work. But you see the one is outward focused (on God)

the other person is inward focused - They are taking focus off God and putting it on themselves and the act they are doing.

You could also say the one is doing it as an act of love

the second is doing it as an act of merit

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Some people get baptized because of peer pressure. I was baptized as a child, not because I wanted to or knew anything about Christ, but because I didn’t have a choice in the matter

so you did it for self, through peer pressure. hoping to gain something (Because you felt like you had no choice)

 

[Aaron112]

Please review.

Maybe this will help clarify something. Maybe not.
If you were with the Israelites on the shore , with a wall of fire between you and the army that wanted to murder you directly,
and the way opened up for you to escape with all the other Israelites m,
would you escape with them
or rather stand your ground and be killed by the Egyptians ?

 

[Aaron112]

I will not believe in God or what God says, because by nature we are apposed to God.

web:
"Baptism in Jesus Name​

Baptism in the Name of Jesus Christ for Forgiveness of Sins​

According to Acts 2:38, Peter instructed the crowd to “repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins"

 

[Aaron112]

Repentance is not confession. Repentance is turning away from sin and towards God. Confession is telling someone what sins you have committed.

I won't debate about this nor argue with you. In the English way of life you may be correct, at least in your life's context.

The Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic ways were a lot different, and not realized by the vast majority of anybody.

 

[BNR32FAN]

so you did it for self, through peer pressure. hoping to gain something (Because you felt like you had no choice)

I was 5 years old, I literally had no choice. Later when I actually came to Christ at the age of 38 I decided to get baptized again as a profession of my faith to God.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I won't debate about this nor argue with you. In the English way of life you may be correct, at least in your life's context.

The Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic ways were a lot different, and not realized by the vast majority of anybody.

I’m not giving the English definition of the word. The definition of the Greek word matanioa has nothing to do with confessing one’s sins to someone.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I was 5 years old, I literally had no choice. Later when I actually came to Christ at the age of 38 I decided to get baptized again as a profession of my faith to God.

Amen!

later you did not do it to gain something (or prevent pain and suffering which in itself is gain) you did it out of gratitude and love.

Huge difference

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I’m not giving the English definition of the word. The definition of the Greek word matanioa has nothing to do with confessing one’s sins to someone.

its another one of those church words. where people have inserted a defenition that is not found in the origional word itself. I made a thread about these words. here is another one We can discuss

 

[BNR32FAN]

Amen!

later you did not do it to gain something (or prevent pain and suffering which in itself is gain) you did it out of gratitude and love.

Huge difference

I did it as a pledge to God, not for anyone else but Him.

 

[Valletta]

He tells us to take eat, often in remembrance of him

If this was the Eucharist, i would agree 100 %.

but those who teach it use John 6 as their guide.

In John 6, He is talking to people who he fed the day before who came looking after him. Jesus knew their hearts and understood they just came to get fed.

So jesus tells them to not work for food which perishes (you have to eat often, or your will die) but work for food which does not perish but endures to eternal life.

He said whoever eats this food will never hunger, and never thirst. He said unlike manna which their fathers ate, whoever eats this food will live forever. He said they will never die, they will have eternal life. They will never be lost. And Jesus himself said he will raise them from th dead.

He called that food the bread from heaven, his flesh and blood. And said straight up it is the spirit who gives life, the words he speaks are spirit and life.

He was telling them to not work for physical food. Which can not save your life. But spiritual food. Which endures forever. This spiritual food was what he was telling them, his words. Aswitnessed by peter himself. “Where can we go lord. You have the WORDS OF ETERNAL LIFE”

So while I believe God did command us to eat often the passover lamb and the bread which he now instituted to remember his death, I do not believe it is the same bread and wine of John 6,

why would you eat this bread and wine that anyone who eats will live forever and not die. And then continue to eat it often. And not have that promise?

it makes no sense.

​

It is a "hard saying." But believe what Jesus tells you in John 6:55

John 6:51-58 51 I am the living bread[a] which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh.” 52 The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”[b] 53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; 54 he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven, not such as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live for ever.” RSVCE

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I did it as a pledge to God, not for anyone else but Him.

but did you expect anything in return?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It is a "hard saying." But believe what Jesus tells you in John 6:55

John 6:51-58 51 I am the living bread[a] which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh.” 52 The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”[b] 53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; 54 he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven, not such as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live for ever.” RSVCE

I believe what Jesus told me in John 6 amen

1. If I eat this bread (which he called the food which endures to eternal life (forever) in vs 27 ) I have Jesus promised I will live forever.
2. If I eat this bread (flesh and blood) I have eternal life, And Jesus promise he will (not might) raise me on the last day
3. If I eat this bread, I will live as Long as Jesus lives. since Jesus will never die. i will never die
4. If I eat this bread, Unlike the fathers who ate manna often and died, I will live forever.

since no one who partakes of the Eucharist sacrifice or offering or whatever they call it. has any assurance that any of these things are true. Then the Eucharist is NOT the flesh and Blood Jesus spoke of in John 6. if it was the literal flesh and blood jesus spoke out in John 6, then EVERYONE who ate of it would get what Jesus promised.

I am actually saddened that so many people take this MASS sometimes weekly, yet have no comprehension that they will not get what Jesus promised when they take it according to john 6.

.

 

[BNR32FAN]

but did you expect anything in return?

No not for being baptized. I didn’t think I was saved after I was baptized, I knew I was already saved before I was baptized. I didn’t get baptized to be saved, I got baptized because I was saved. I saw it as my pledge to God that I would devote myself to Him.

 

[Valletta]

I believe what Jesus told me in John 6 amen

1. If I eat this bread (which he called the food which endures to eternal life (forever) in vs 27 ) I have Jesus promised I will live forever.
2. If I eat this bread (flesh and blood) I have eternal life, And Jesus promise he will (not might) raise me on the last day
3. If I eat this bread, I will live as Long as Jesus lives. since Jesus will never die. i will never die
4. If I eat this bread, Unlike the fathers who ate manna often and died, I will live forever.

since no one who partakes of the Eucharist sacrifice or offering or whatever they call it. has any assurance that any of these things are true. Then the Eucharist is NOT the flesh and Blood Jesus spoke of in John 6. if it was the literal flesh and blood jesus spoke out in John 6, then EVERYONE who ate of it would get what Jesus promised.

I am actually saddened that so many people take this MASS sometimes weekly, yet have no comprehension that they will not get what Jesus promised when they take it according to john 6.

.

We must partake, as Jesus told us to do when He said, "Do this," but the Word of God tells us we must do so "worthily."

Partaking of the Supper Unworthily​

Cor 11:27-32 Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself. That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died.[a] But if we judged ourselves truly, we should not be judged. But when we are judged by the Lord, we are chastened[b] so that we may not be condemned along with the world. RSVCE

This means we must have faith in our Lord and follow Him in a worthy manner. An analogy is Matthew 7:7.

Matt 7:7 “Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. RSVCE

This does not mean that anyone can ask, say, for everyone else to go to hell and it will be granted. No, you must seek and ask for that which God desires for you. ALL of the Word of God is beneficial, and each statement must be taken in context.
Never be "saddened" that others follow what Our Lord has commanded. Some people attend mass every day they can, the mass has taken place now for almost 2000 years. The Bible is a collection of liturgical books for the mass. Whether you approve of Christ's Church or not you should at least thank God that there is a mass and that out of the needs of the Catholic Church for the readings at the mass that the Church chose the books of the Bible and preached and preserved the Bible over all of these centuries so that you can read it today.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

God gave us a Church, not a book. He promised that the gates of hell would not prevail against it

The Bible itself tells us that the pillar and foundation of truth is the Church. It says that it is of no private interpretation. It tells us to lean not to our own understanding. It tells us to be as little children
The sign of obedience is not referring to a book, rather submission to one’s elders

It is modernist heresy to say that the early church was deceived and conquered. Only we have the truth now, because we read the book and interpret the way we want

I have read some in this thread sat that they doubt even parts of the Bible as true scripture.

Where is their standard? It’s not the Church. They say it failed. It’s not scripture, as they put even scripture under the opinions of men, tell us to discard history as unreliable, yet then tell us how things were back in Peter’s day. How do they know?
To whom do they submit? Whom do they obey? It’s not the Church. It’s not scripture by their own words. Then what? Following their logic is confusing, and scripture tells us who is the author of confusion. Do they listen to him? How do we know? How do they know?

May God have mercy. Honesty and repentance would be in order, if they still wish to claim to follow Our Lord.

If they do not wish to tell us to whom they submit, then nothing else they say is of value. Their words are as unstable as the sand and as random as the wind. As quicksand will trap you, and a whirlwind will destroy you, so is conversing with them.

Want to know the truth? Begin by reading Demonstration of the apostolic teaching by Iraneus. Another good book is the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It is in pain language with plenty of scriptural references.

It is not just the Bible, but how the Bible is put into practice that is important. We are not saved by our works aka praxis. But faith is practical. Those that have it will behave a certain way, those that don’t will point to their words.

Even a child knows that it is hypocrisy to preach do as I say not as I do, yet those that preach no works are telling us just that. Is Christianity a religion of hypocrisy? God forbid !

 

[Eternally Grateful]

We must partake, as Jesus told us to do when He said, "Do this," but the Word of God tells us we must do so "worthily."

Partaking of the Supper Unworthily​

Cor 11:27-32 Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself. That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died.[a] But if we judged ourselves truly, we should not be judged. But when we are judged by the Lord, we are chastened[b] so that we may not be condemned along with the world. RSVCE

This means we must have faith in our Lord and follow Him in a worthy manner. An analogy is Matthew 7:7.

Matt 7:7 “Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. RSVCE

This does not mean that anyone can ask, say, for everyone else to go to hell and it will be granted. No, you must seek and ask for that which God desires for you. ALL of the Word of God is beneficial, and each statement must be taken in context.
Never be "saddened" that others follow what Our Lord has commanded. Some people attend mass every day they can, the mass has taken place now for almost 2000 years. The Bible is a collection of liturgical books for the mass. Whether you approve of Christ's Church or not you should at least thank God that there is a mass and that out of the needs of the Catholic Church for the readings at the mass that the Church chose the books of the Bible and preached and preserved the Bible over all of these centuries so that you can read it today.

It does not matter if we believe the flesh and blood is a literal or spiritual. If we believe the bread from heaven is literal or spiritual if we believe the food which endures is spiritual or literal

If it does not give the person who eats it what Jesus promised they would get. Then it’s not the food/bread/body spoken of in John 6.

In effect we make Jesus a liar when we claim that we can eat and not receive anything Jesus promised