A response to the "MJ only" thread

xDenax said:

Don't worry, I'm just in a temporary lull. I've be on vacation next week then I will be doing research for the next 4-6 weeks. I won't have time to have opinions.

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Hoping your vaction is enjoyable - and that you have an amazing time

For those who want a relaxation of the rules, as they apply to non-Messianic visitors, to make us more 'open' - please advise how to proceed with post #57 in http://www.christianforums.com/t7749940/

I'M late to the game, and haven't read all the responses (oops) but couldn't we have a list of the members like we did a long time ago and simply restrict all other debates and such to those who are MJ members, irregardless of their icon?

Things seemed to be a bit smoother when we did that.

In a practical sense, anyone who believes they are "teaching" in CF forums, over estimate what kind of authority they have. Generally people have already made up their minds on a given topic and when someone comes along with a counter point they don't like it.

My or the next person's "teaching" has a whole lot less influence than it can be made out to be.

No doubt you are [the only] people [that matter]; and when you die, so will wisdom. 3 But I too have a brain, as much as you, In no way am I inferior to you. Job12:2-3 CJB

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Whole lot of dancing around the issue. Not much answering the question. Should the Site Wide Rules, the Forum Rules and the Statement of Purpose apply to all of us as written and agreed to - equally or not? I notice one of those claiming 'special privileges' is being verbose - yet very circumspect about this question, now that the ad hominem portion of the program is past.

We have ten Administrators, Supervisors and Moderators and not a peep. Certainly NO ONE has denied that some people are treated 'more equally' than others. Yeah. No Crisis. Until the 'elephant in the room' sits on your head.

The silence is deafening.

talmidim said:

Whole lot of dancing around the issue. Not much answering the question. Should the Site Wide Rules, the Forum Rules and the Statement of Purpose apply to all of us as written and agreed to - equally or not? I notice one of those claiming 'special privileges' is being verbose - yet very circumspect about this question, now that the ad hominem portion of the program is past.

We have ten Administrators, Supervisors and Moderators and not a peep. Certainly NO ONE has denied that some people are treated 'more equally' than others. Yeah. No Crisis. Until the 'elephant in the room' sits on your head.

The silence is deafening.

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Is it the rules that need clarification, so that this issue doesn't come up? Or is it the application of the rules as is, need to be applied even to those who have had "special privileges" for so long, that most think it is normal?

MessianicMommy said:

I'M late to the game, and haven't read all the responses (oops) but couldn't we have a list of the members like we did a long time ago and simply restrict all other debates and such to those who are MJ members, irregardless of their icon?

Things seemed to be a bit smoother when we did that.

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I remember hearing of that/seeing that in action back in the day - and it is an effective solution, IMHO, just as other Messianics noted back in the day.

We already have way too much in the way of attacks (red herring) on the issue which are non-issues - things CF has sough to address. And It's unfortunate enough that the other aspects of the SoP Rules/Site Wide Rules, the Forum Rules and the Statement of Purpose are already being ignored enough as it is (i.e. Not discriminating against other Messianic Jews/Messianic Gentiles who share their appreciation/identification with the Church or Christianity, not claiming other Messianic Jews/Messianic Gentiles who work in Churches are "Non-Messianic", choosing to judge others/lashon hara, etc.) by others claiming that those Messianics who don't use a "Messianic" icon like many have for years are not "Messianic" - even though it is noted in their monikers and signatures/Bios. There was more brought up in the thread entitled Is anybody that accepts "Christ" considered a "Christian"? ( #3/ #103 /#106 ) - as you noted there:
Why it's difficult for others to see that......it's amazing.

And the continual rant of 'special privileges' is already being ignored for what it is - seeing that no one speaking on it has ever desired to be identified with the Church or Christianity....something that has never been a requirement for Messianics at ANY point. If others complain on "Special privelages", there needs to be PROOF where they were ever concerned with identifying with the Church/Christianity alongside Messianic culture - and denied unlike other Messianics open on where they stand (i.e. Daughter of Ararat, Contra Mundum, Myself, etc.).

Till that can be shown, it'll be nothing more than crying "FOUL!!"/a lie done in the name of others being treated "more equally than others" AND striring strife without cause. And if they want to harp on rules, they need to put their money where their mouth is. Other Messianics did so often back in the day - and There will always be other Messianics disagreeing with those Messianics who work in the Church (like Bridge Builders) and those who don't like anything of Church/Christianity - despite where it is the forum is a sub-set of Christian forums.

But if choosing to make any enforcement of rules, the focus should be what it has always been: Respect those Messianics, regardless of their other affiliations, who are faithful to the Messianic Movement/attend Messianic synagogue...while all others who are non-members/non-Messianic seekers should be allowed to not teach/debate (as the rules have ALWAYS noted) - and if others wish to continue allow for special privelages for those who are Jewish/non-believers (i.e. xDenax, Chavak, Yonah, etc.), then be consistent with that and note that there are already privelages given to non-members ...and the rules are flexible in truth.

ChavaK said:

I don't think there is a poster here who hasn't done "wrongdoing" of one kind or another, lol.

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Everyone has made mistakes at one point or another

xDenax said:

I don't see a crisis.

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Agreed 110%.

There is no actual crisis. This entire thread is really kind of a ripple effect of one person in crisis who posted their concerns.

This whole thing is very easy to navigate, without rule changes, without new forums etc.

Here's how it works:

a) You want to talk strict(er) Torah observance- we have a sub forum for that. Post those issues there.

b) You want to talk about things from a more Church/Judaism perspective- we have a sub forum for that. Post those issues there.

c) You have something more general to discuss. We have a forum for that too. Post those issues there. In fact, we have a few sub forums for special issues. Post those issues there.

d) Expect people of diverse opinions and from other parts of the religious world to pop in on occassion. Rather than be precious about it and choose to get your feelings hurt for not posting what you would have if you started their post, be gracious. If they blatantly break the rules already in place, hit the report button. If they don't but irritate you, hit the ignore button. Do both if you want. Experience has proven that this process works, and likewise it has proven that people of other opinions posting has never caused the sky to fall down or the collapse of civilization. All it does is give us something to talk about for a few pages.

e) The rules in place work just fine. Use them and abide by them and you will soon realize that.

f) Content is more important than icons, which has been pointed out. React to content.

Why is this so hard? Why all the drama?

This is not rocket science, folks. This is an exercise in grace, patience and character building. The rules, like the Torah, are not far from you that you can't keep them! Why not just try to enjoy the forum for what it really is- a lovable bunch of contradictions and characters?

ChavaK said:

Lol, I noticed that too. Someone at the other thread actually said they were not practicing Christianity. If that is an opinion of most posters here, why in the world does a Christian forum allow a non-Christian group to have it's own forum here?

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I think a very few people want to try to distance themselves from Christianity (as they see it, which is in a perjorative sense) and want others to have that same perspective. But you're absolutely right, if it has Jesus as Messiah and Lord in it, regardless of religious observances, it is essentially Christianity at the core, no matter what name you slap on it.

I think the vast majority of the posters here see the MJ movement as a movement within the Body of Messiah, which quite simply is called the "church" in the NT. They might not be "of" the Church, but they are "in" it.

Some see the MJ movement as a repristination movement, but those tiny few see it as a breakaway. I don't think it's fair for either opinion to force theirs into the normative opinion for the forum, most of all because this is under the general title of Christian Forums, whom we all have a debt of gratitude to.

xDenax said:

All that goes on here is arguments about who should and shouldn't be posting and where they should and shouldn't be doing it. This forum is dull.

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Yep. When it gets political, it's not just dull, it's toxic.

xDenax said:

I wonder the same. If that's how the MJ's really feel, they should not have a forum here. It takes absolutely no sense. They should be over on the World Religions forum.

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Good point. If one is that different, there's even a place for you over there.

There are a couple forum bullies who like to try to control the forum and ruin it for everyone else. Why they haven't got anything better to do with their time, I don't know. Your guess is as good as mine. I've come to the conclusion all they really want to do is fight over petty non-issues.

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I think Eric Hoffer said "those who have no life of their own choose to meddle in the affairs of others" (paraphrase, something like that)

So no one was interested in complaining about the real problem: anti-semitism being posted on our forum. I pointed to it and asked how you guys would deal with it. Nil response as far as I can see! Yet those posts are the ones we should be rooting out!

Avodat said:

So no one was interested in complaining about the real problem: anti-semitism being posted on our forum. I pointed to it and asked how you guys would deal with it. Nil response as far as I can see! Yet those posts are the ones we should be rooting out!

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I have never seen an anti-semitism poke his head in our door without getting a bop on the nose. Nothing much to discuss. Bop it when you see it and move on.

visionary said:

I have never seen an anti-semitism poke his head in our door without getting a bop on the nose. Nothing much to discuss. Bop it when you see it and move on.

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It has been missed, but is still there, unchallenged - people are too busy trashing others. No one is bothering about the real problems!

Avodat said:

It has been missed, but is still there, unchallenged - people are too busy trashing others. No one is bothering about the real problems!

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You can be our resident expert in anti-sematism reporting.

talmidim said:

Whole lot of dancing around the issue. Not much answering the question. Should the Site Wide Rules, the Forum Rules and the Statement of Purpose apply to all of us as written and agreed to - equally or not? I notice one of those claiming 'special privileges' is being verbose - yet very circumspect about this question, now that the ad hominem portion of the program is past.

We have ten Administrators, Supervisors and Moderators and not a peep. Certainly NO ONE has denied that some people are treated 'more equally' than others. Yeah. No Crisis. Until the 'elephant in the room' sits on your head.

The silence is deafening.

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Tal - why don't you just come out and name your "elephants". That way we'll all know who you are taking aim at. Obviously, you have a few people in mind.

Avodat said:

So no one was interested in complaining about the real problem: anti-semitism being posted on our forum. I pointed to it and asked how you guys would deal with it. Nil response as far as I can see! Yet those posts are the ones we should be rooting out!

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I wasn't sure what you were getting at. Now I know.

visionary said:

I have never seen an anti-semitism poke his head in our door without getting a bop on the nose. Nothing much to discuss. Bop it when you see it and move on.

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I've seen it since I've been here and that aint long. Seen it in the last couple days.

What he said----
''There are only two old religions in the world that are racist: one is Hinduism of India and another is Judaism. ''

Truthorent{or however you spell it} said that Israel is a racist elitist notion of Racist Zionist..

Something like that....

Sounds like he came with an agenda and that agenda is anti-Semitic.

He comes to Messianic Judaism knowing what he says is against Messianic Judaism.





This is what he tells me when I take Israel's side.


''Because it is convenient for you. British had no authority to grant land to others who had been kicked out by God for their wickedness.

There are about three well known religions in the world which are basically militant in nature, namely, Judaism, Islam and Sikhism.

Are you a Messianic Jew? I doubt that!

You are fixed to this temporal world on a permanent basis!

Your yardstick for your belief appears to be not even Torah because you are quoting America which has practically become immoral!
You appear to make political statements not related to spiritual!
Why only Nile to Euphrates? You may want the entire world under your control with your cunning business practice and hypocrisy!

You are not a born-again believer from this political stand. Your true colors are obvious!Wolf in sheep's covering to gather money from naive Christians!

HannibalFlavius said:

I've seen it since I've been here and that aint long. Seen it in the last couple days.

What he said----
''There are only two old religions in the world that are racist: one is Hinduism of India and another is Judaism. ''

Truthorent{or however you spell it} said that Israel is a racist elitist notion of Racist Zionist..

Something like that....

Sounds like he came with an agenda and that agenda is anti-Semitic.

He comes to Messianic Judaism knowing what he says is against Messianic Judaism.





This is what he tells me when I take Israel's side.


''Because it is convenient for you. British had no authority to grant land to others who had been kicked out by God for their wickedness.

There are about three well known religions in the world which are basically militant in nature, namely, Judaism, Islam and Sikhism.

Are you a Messianic Jew? I doubt that!

You are fixed to this temporal world on a permanent basis!

Your yardstick for your belief appears to be not even Torah because you are quoting America which has practically become immoral!
You appear to make political statements not related to spiritual!
Why only Nile to Euphrates? You may want the entire world under your control with your cunning business practice and hypocrisy!

You are not a born-again believer from this political stand. Your true colors are obvious!Wolf in sheep's covering to gather money from naive Christians!

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and I thought you handled it rather well.