A Republican who cannot vote Mormon

[Defensor Fidei]

Are you going to vote for him?

Soo... It's only bigotry when the people you hate do it. Gotcha.

Sorry folks, but trying to play deliberately obtuse isn't going to work here.

Democrats who are socially liberal and anti-racist (many of whom may be black themselves) have a valid reason not to vote for a faithful adherent of a socially conservative religion with a history of racism. Evangelicals have no valid policy-related reason. Evangelicals and Mormons were comrades-in-arms in the battle against gay marriage, but when it comes time for an Evangelical to vote for a Mormon, the personal religious bigotry shows itself.

 

[UnamSanctam]

He's the president, not the overlord, and he caves every time a republican looks at him sideways.

And....republicans are all white? And co-operation is bad? And the President is powerless, doesn't run anything? So why all the fuss about who gets to be it?
Lousy rants are lousy...

 

[MachZer0]

Sorry folks, but trying to play deliberately obtuse isn't going to work here.

Democrats who are socially liberal and anti-racist (many of whom may be black themselves) have a valid reason not to vote for a faithful adherent of a socially conservative religion with a history of racism. Evangelicals have no valid policy-related reason. Evangelicals and Mormons were comrades-in-arms in the battle against gay marriage, but when it comes time for an Evangelical to vote for a Mormon, the personal religious bigotry shows itself.

Excuse me but you don't get to decide what is a valid policy reason for me to consider. If Romney doesn't represent my values and he doesn't because of his Mormonism), I won't vote for him. You won't vote for him because he doesn't represent your values but in my case it's bigotry, according to you.

 

[Maren]

Excuse me but you don't get to decide what is a valid policy reason for me to consider. If Romney doesn't represent my values and he doesn't because of his Mormonism), I won't vote for him. You won't vote for him because he doesn't represent your values but in my case it's bigotry, according to you.

Except that religion does not equal policy and, in terms of politics, Romney's values (as pointed out) are basically the same as yours. While I understand you disagree with Mormonism, in terms of values (abortion, marriage, divorce, personal responsibility, welfare) Mormons are little to no different than Evangelicals.

 

[MachZer0]

Except that religion does not equal policy and, in terms of politics, Romney's values (as pointed out) are basically the same as yours. While I understand you disagree with Mormonism, in terms of values (abortion, marriage, divorce, personal responsibility, welfare) Mormons are little to no different than Evangelicals.

There are no set policies which qualify a person to be president, and Romney's values are diametrically opposed to mine.

 

[Verticordious]

Sorry folks, but trying to play deliberately obtuse isn't going to work here.

Democrats who are socially liberal and anti-racist (many of whom may be black themselves) have a valid reason not to vote for a faithful adherent of a socially conservative religion with a history of racism. Evangelicals have no valid policy-related reason. Evangelicals and Mormons were comrades-in-arms in the battle against gay marriage, but when it comes time for an Evangelical to vote for a Mormon, the personal religious bigotry shows itself.

What history of racism would that be? Slavery? Nope, that was the Democrats. KKK voter intimidating and lynching? Nope, that was also the Democrats. Denial of civil rights? Nope, that was the Democrats too.

If you knew anything about American political history you'd know that the Republican party was founded for the two explicit purposes of ending slavery and defending marriage, which at the time was under via attempts to legitimize polygamy. The Democrats, on the other hand, were dedicated to resisting all attempts from the federal government from outlawing slavery in the states. They even seceded from the nation in an attempt to preserve slavery.

Republican Platform of 1856
Democratic Party Platforms: Democratic Party Platform of 1856

Also, Christians do share some values with Mormons, but so do atheists. What does that prove? The Mormon church's "historical" teachings written by Joseph Smith declare that black skin is a curse, and the official church discriminated against blacks because of this until around 1980. In addition, the Mormon church has never official denounced polygamy, only that Mormons should "obey the law".

Please feel free to explain to us how official Mormon teaching being in opposition to the two founding Republican party principles is not sufficient reason to oppose a Mormon candidate.

 

[Maren]

There are no set policies which qualify a person to be president, and Romney's values are diametrically opposed to mine.

Oh? What value of Romney's (not religious beliefs but values) are seriously different than yours? Are you pro-choice? Are you for gay marriage? Are you for government intrusion in business? Are you pro-Welfare? Are you for ObamaCare? Exactly what are the values that he has that are so different from yours?

 

[Maren]

What history of racism would that be? Slavery? Nope, that was the Democrats. KKK voter intimidating and lynching? Nope, that was also the Democrats. Denial of civil rights? Nope, that was the Democrats too.

If you knew anything about American political history you'd know that the Republican party was founded for the two explicit purposes of ending slavery and defending marriage, which at the time was under via attempts to legitimize polygamy. The Democrats, on the other hand, were dedicated to resisting all attempts from the federal government from outlawing slavery in the states. They even seceded from the nation in an attempt to preserve slavery.

Republican Platform of 1856
Democratic Party Platforms: Democratic Party Platform of 1856

Also, Christians do share some values with Mormons, but so do atheists. What does that prove? The Mormon church's "historical" teachings written by Joseph Smith declare that black skin is a curse, and the official church discriminated against blacks because of this until around 1980. In addition, the Mormon church has never official denounced polygamy, only that Mormons should "obey the law".

Please feel free to explain to us how official Mormon teaching being in opposition to the two founding Republican party principles is not sufficient reason to oppose a Mormon candidate.

You can't claim Mormons discriminated against Blacks because of Joseph Smith. First, historians claim that one of the reasons Mormons had such a hard time in Missouri is because they were so openly anti-slavery (upsetting the political balance in a state that allowed slavery). Second, though I'd have to double check to be sure of the number, Joseph Smith personally ordained seven black men.

Also, while the Mormons may have been a decade later than other religions; the fact is that the religions of most Evangelical Republicans banned the ordaining of blacks until the 1960s.

Last, from what I've seen there is absolutely no interest in polygamy among Mormons (talking about those in the Salt Lake based church, not in the very small splinter groups). If you've got some evidence Mormons are wanting to bring back polygamy, other than their official statement made over a century ago not denouncing it, I'd be interested to hear it.

 

[Creech]

What history of racism would that be? Slavery? Nope, that was the Democrats. KKK voter intimidating and lynching? Nope, that was also the Democrats. Denial of civil rights? Nope, that was the Democrats too.

If you knew anything about American political history you'd know that the Republican party was founded for the two explicit purposes of ending slavery and defending marriage, which at the time was under via attempts to legitimize polygamy. The Democrats, on the other hand, were dedicated to resisting all attempts from the federal government from outlawing slavery in the states. They even seceded from the nation in an attempt to preserve slavery.


Also, Christians do share some values with Mormons, but so do atheists. What does that prove? The Mormon church's "historical" teachings written by Joseph Smith declare that black skin is a curse, and the official church discriminated against blacks because of this until around 1980. In addition, the Mormon church has never official denounced polygamy, only that Mormons should "obey the law".

Please feel free to explain to us how official Mormon teaching being in opposition to the two founding Republican party principles is not sufficient reason to oppose a Mormon candidate.

Well today's democrats don't have much to do with democrats back then. The South used to be a heavily democratic part of the country while the North Republican. Look at maps today. The Republicans are now down South and Democrats up North. Today, the Republicans LEAN towards states rights while the Democrats want to increase the power of the Federal government, which is a complete reversal from the 1860s. Lincoln was actually a TYRANT and the South had the moral high ground in secession.

 

[MachZer0]

Oh? What value of Romney's (not religious beliefs but values) are seriously different than yours? Are you pro-choice? Are you for gay marriage? Are you for government intrusion in business? Are you pro-Welfare? Are you for ObamaCare? Exactly what are the values that he has that are so different from yours?

Religious beliefs are values.

 

[UnamSanctam]

Religious beliefs are values.

Well, yeah, but I kinda see his point, tbh.
I'd rather vote for an openly non-Christian (a Mormon in this case) who had values that corrosponded with a Christian view, than a nominally Christian who don't.

 

[Maren]

Religious beliefs are values.

Very weak answer; though it does tend to support the claim that you can't support him based on bigotry.

 

[Myshkin99]

I don't see how you can deny that the culture of America has declined more dramatically in the past 40 years then in any point of its history.

I deny that the culture of America has declined. But there's no way one could even measure something like this. What is your metric for determining "decline", when measuring culture is a multivariate endeavor at best?

The culture has changed. I think that what you mean to say is that you don't like the ways in which the culture has changed. Ritght?

 

[MachZer0]

Very weak answer; though it does tend to support the claim that you can't support him based on bigotry.

Again, I wont vote for him because he doesn't represent my values, and it's bigotry. You won't vote for him because he doesn't represent your values, and it's just the right thing to do.

 

[AtheistVet]

And....republicans are all white? And co-operation is bad? And the President is powerless, doesn't run anything? So why all the fuss about who gets to be it?
Lousy rants are lousy...

I'm saying it's ludicrous to say that white Christians are being threatened by the government.

 

[Defensor Fidei]

Excuse me but you don't get to decide what is a valid policy reason for me to consider. If Romney doesn't represent my values and he doesn't because of his Mormonism), I won't vote for him. You won't vote for him because he doesn't represent your values but in my case it's bigotry, according to you.

Really, what Mormon values are incompatible with Republican values? Why are Mormons the most loyal Republican voting bloc in the country?

I won't vote for Romney because he holds the exact same neoconservative Republican values that the Evangelical counterparts in his party do.

 

[MachZer0]

Really, what Mormon values are incompatible with Republican values? Why are Mormons the most loyal Republican voting bloc in the country?

I won't vote for Romney because he holds the exact same neoconservative Republican values that the Evangelical counterparts in his party do.

I didn't say anything about Republican values, I said my values. My values trump the Republican party every time when it comes to my vote

 

[Defensor Fidei]

I didn't say anything about Republican values, I said my values. My values trump the Republican party every time when it comes to my vote

Uh huh, and how do Mormon values diverge from yours, apart from theological variances between Mormonism and Protestantism?

 

[stiggywiggy]

I guess that's one of the problems a party like the GOP faces, when its ideology and base are motivated so much by bigotry of all sorts. The Republican base won't support its own party's candidates if they're the wrong religion or race or sex or sexual orientation.

It seems to me that quite the opposite is true. We surely don't see it in the case of religion. Santorum is a Catholic, and he was tops in polling among protestant evangelicals. Romney is going to win the nomination and he's MORMON! The vast majority of his supporters are not. The Republicans nominated a woman Vice-Presidential candidate just a few short years ago. There are lots of new Republican governors and representatives who are women. As far as race, that's absurd. Herman Cain, Alan West and scores of Republicans would disagee with your assessment.

Most likely you believe this false sterotype because, like many, you watch too much garbage originating out of Hollywood.

 

[stiggywiggy]

The government is RUN by white Christians.

Hmm. So maybe instead of being born in Kenya, it might have been Sweden?