A really mean question...

[NorrinRadd]

The funny thing is lots of them don't actually think through the implications of what it actually says. "God so loved the world..." isn't compatible with a view of the future where God dumps it and takes people off to a disembodied heaven, which is what a good number of them believe.

How is it not compatible?

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

John 3:16 says "world," not "earth." God loved--and loves--the world. The verse refers not to the planet but to the population on it, just as the church is not the building, but the people in it.

He made the planet too, but He made it for the purpose of population. Which is perfectly compatible with one day delivering His people from the bounds of the planet.

 

[ebia]

How is it not compatible?

"God so loved the world that he ... dumped it in the bin." ?

 

[ebia]

John 3:16 says "world," not "earth." God loved--and loves--the world. The verse refers not to the planet but to the population on it, just as the church is not the building, but the people in it.

No it doesn't - it means all of creation. It's all creation that's very good and it's all creation God came to redeem. This dualism isn't Judeo/Christian, it's medieval with gnostic influences.

He made the planet too, but He made it for the purpose of population.

Wrong again. All Creation is very good. We exist as much for the benefit of the rest of creation as the other way around.

Which is perfectly compatible with one day delivering His people from the bounds of the planet.

Gnostism is, historical Christianity isn't.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

Not arguing, just explaining my viewpoint. Call me what you want to.

 

[ebia]

"Heaven is important, but it's not the end of the world" (+Tom Wright).

I'm not calling you anything. Just explaining that some views, particularly those involving dualism, have their roots in gnosticsm, not Christianity proper.

Judaism and Christianity say, as in Genesis 1, creation is very good, but marred and needs restoring.

Gnostism says creation is bad and needs escaping.

Judaism and Christianity speak of a physical resurrection for God's people as part of God's restoration of his world and his bringing of his sovereign rule to bear on earth.

Gnostism speaks of escaping the evil physical into a good spiritual realm.

We are called to pray, as in the Lord's prayer, "your kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven", not "...on heaven as it is in heaven".

 

[Johnnz]

He made the planet too, but He made it for the purpose of population. Which is perfectly compatible with one day delivering His people from the bounds of the planet.

That is just not true. It is part of a Gnostic influence within some sections of the church.

We are eternally bound up with the earth. That's why we get resurrected bodies. The prophetic vision was for a renewed earth, not an abandoned one. Revelation ends with the church (God's city) returning to earth. The Jewish belief was never for God arriving on a cloud to whisk us off somewhere. Jesus never contradicted that view either.

There is more Greek influence within much fundamentalism than scripture on several key doctrines. That view was one example.

John
NZ
John
NZ

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

If one more person calls me gnostic instead of Christian because of what I believe, I am going to call in the mods. I started this thread. And the topic is whether people quote John 3:16 as their favorite verse because it is their favorite, or because it is the only one they know. Alternatively, the topic is what is your favorite verse, whether it is John 3:16 or not. It is not how to interpret John 3:16, and who's right and who's wrong. I stated my opinion like anyone else, and I will not continue to have it bashed.

 

[Johnnz]

The Jewish people did not believe in the end of the space time universe. All the prophets spoke about a restored Israel, with God's anointed on the throne of David ruling over a redeemed creation, a return to Eden That was the view adopted by the NT church, except that Jesus was that ruler, and that His restoration will far exceed what Eden was.

In the last chapters of Revelation Jesus returns to earth with his people, rather than taking them back to a 'heaven'.

John
NZ

 

[AnneSally]

Gosh, although I love that verse, 2 Cor 4:8-9 is mine (see siggy)

Yeah, that one is brilliant.

 

[AnneSally]

Not intended to spark a fight, but I do want to know what people think.

It has been my experience that, if you ask a random Christian to quote his/her favorite verse in the Bible, at least 90% will say John 3:16. Now, the cynical part of me wants to know: Of that 90%, how many pick John 3:16 because it truly is their favorite Scripture, and how many pick John 3:16 because they memorized it in some VBS way back when they were six years old, and it's still the only Scripture they can quote from memory?

Just being a little imp. But honestly, is there some validity here?

I dunno but I wonder more about the verses that follow that one....people don't often quote those ones.....

 

[AnneSally]

I have lots of favorite verses...and most I can say with ease. It's just remembering what book, chapter and verse they are that get me.

I think for many John 3:16 is the root of the bible.

God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son, that whoever believes in him will not perish, but have everlasting life.

Oh, the sweetness of those words! I could honestly see why so many people would pick it as their favorite verse.

Yes indeed! I love it. But I also have many favourites....it's very difficult to pick just one...there are too many!

 

[AnneSally]

Mine is John 12:24. When you understand that Jesus was explaining why His death was necessary not just for the remission of sin (Matthew 26:28), but to empower those who believed... it's like the most important thing Jesus said in my personal opinion.

Totally! That's a brilliant insight Frisbee!

 

[AnneSally]

The Jewish people did not believe in the end of the space time universe. All the prophets spoke about a restored Israel, with God's anointed on the throne of David ruling over a redeemed creation, a return to Eden That was the view adopted by the NT church, except that Jesus was that ruler, and that His restoration will far exceed what Eden was.

In the last chapters of Revelation Jesus returns to earth with his people, rather than taking them back to a 'heaven'.

John
NZ

But Isaiah 65:17 also speaks of a new heaven and a new earth and that is confirmed in the NT. Revelation 21:1 says that first heaven and earth has "passed away" and there is a new heaven and new earth.

Israel is restored but there is also a new heaven and a new earth to come.

 

[AnneSally]

Wrong again. All Creation is very good. We exist as much for the benefit of the rest of creation as the other way around.

I think you're wrong. In the beginning God's creation was good, yes, as it states in Genesis, but God didn't create us just to exist for the benefit of the rest of His creation. We were created to glorify Him, but unfortunately we don't because every one of us falls short of His glory because of sin. In the beginning it was good, yes, but when Adam sinned the ground was cursed and without Jesus Christ we have nothing and we are not "good" but more inclined toward the very opposite (being sinners).

 

[AnneSally]

ok, here's a brief selection of my faves, the reasons I believe are self-evident in the actual words and the meanings behind the words themselves and of course because of who said them.


I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me." Jesus Christ - John 14:6

"I am the light of the world; he who follows Me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life." Jesus Christ - John 8:12

"If you abide in My word then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." Jesus Christ - John 8:31

"Be still, and know that I am God" Part of Psalm 46:10

"I am the LORD, that is My name; I will not give My glory to another, Nor my praise to graven images." Isaiah 42:8

"But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength, they shall mount up with wings as eagles, they shall run and not be weary, they shall walk and not faint." Isaiah 40:31

"But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD" Part of Joshua 24:14


I'll come back with more later........

 

[p0LkFliedLice]

Not intended to spark a fight, but I do want to know what people think.

It has been my experience that, if you ask a random Christian to quote his/her favorite verse in the Bible, at least 90% will say John 3:16. Now, the cynical part of me wants to know: Of that 90%, how many pick John 3:16 because it truly is their favorite Scripture, and how many pick John 3:16 because they memorized it in some VBS way back when they were six years old, and it's still the only Scripture they can quote from memory?

Just being a little imp. But honestly, is there some validity here?

I thought it was only 87.682 percent. Shows how much I know

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

I thought it was only 87.682 percent. Shows how much I know

Hey, we've got a potential whiz kid player here! Welcome, Newbie. Reps on the way for the quick wit.

 

[champuru]

Not intended to spark a fight, but I do want to know what people think.

It has been my experience that, if you ask a random Christian to quote his/her favorite verse in the Bible, at least 90% will say John 3:16. Now, the cynical part of me wants to know: Of that 90%, how many pick John 3:16 because it truly is their favorite Scripture, and how many pick John 3:16 because they memorized it in some VBS way back when they were six years old, and it's still the only Scripture they can quote from memory?

Just being a little imp. But honestly, is there some validity here?

I learned that a VBS and i think that is the only scripture that i know the exact location of... i read the bible, but I dont go around memorizing where specific verses are. So I think there is a lot of truth to your statement! A LOT!

 

[bsd13]

Honestly mine changes from time to time depending on what God is speaking too me. Some people have "life scriptures" but at this point I don't have one. Currently my favorites are:

Isaiah 53:5 "...the punishment that brought us peace was upon him"

and

Isaiah 53:10 "...yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer"

At this point and time in my life those two verses speak volumes about God's love to me.