A Real illegal immigrant scenario

[Martinius]

Let's say a little girl came to America with her parents from Mexico, illegally, 30 years ago. She was too young to understand what was happening, had no say in what her parents did. Now she is married to a U.S. citizen, and they have children. She works, pays taxes, acts like a good citizen, but is an illegal.

Should this woman be deported? Should she, her husband and her children live in constant fear that she could be "picked up" and deported? Would it be right to deprive her children, due to a decision by their grandparents? Does it make sense to separate her from her family, and send her to a country she doesn't remember, where she has no family?

 

[LaSorcia]

I thought there were laws that if you could get signatures proving you'd lived here for 10+ years acting as a citizen, then you'd be grandmothered/fathered in?

 

[Tallguy88]

No, let that person stay. Underage when came here, married to a citizen, parent to citizens. If a clean criminal record, then I say give legal status.

 

[South Bound]

Let's say a little girl came to America with her parents from Mexico, illegally, 30 years ago. She was too young to understand what was happening, had no say in what her parents did. Now she is married to a U.S. citizen, and they have children. She works, pays taxes, acts like a good citizen, but is an illegal.

Should this woman be deported? Should she, her husband and her children live in constant fear that she could be "picked up" and deported? Would it be right to deprive her children, due to a decision by their grandparents? Does it make sense to separate her from her family, and send her to a country she doesn't remember, where she has no family?

How is she working and paying taxes if she's here illegally?

 

[JacksBratt]

I am certain, with all the verbiage and litigation abilities of lawyers and lawmakers, that they can look at every situation that you can dream up, and find a just solution according to the US and State laws.

I am pretty sure that the majority are just plain illegal's working for cash and paying no taxes.

 

[Martinius]

How is she working and paying taxes if she's here illegally?

Good question, and I don't know the answer. The hints I am getting is that since she arrived so long ago (30-35 years back) she may have been granted a permanent resident designation and was able to get a DL and an SS number. Don't know about that. She apparently is a regular employee of a company in the area, which means she is paying payroll taxes.

I am told she is "illegal" and that she is looking at leaving her current job and working with someone "on the side". So she may be worried about being in a situation now where her status could be discovered, leading to her deportation. I will see what I can find out.

I am pretty sure that the majority are just plain illegal's working for cash and paying no taxes.

Since the Patriot Act after 9-11, employers have had to verify the identity and employment eligibility of new hires. That indicates some employers are breaking the law and "hiring" ineligible people. I have been told that a large majority of Hispanics in our area are not legal, but are working. We have seen where people in the political spotlight, for the most part wealthy, "discover" that some of their servant help was illegal, and they had to submit previously unpaid payroll taxes. That's a joke, as I would bet they knew but willingly broke the law, but they don't even get a slap on the hand.

As I said in another thread, I may have to cut my own grass this summer, since the company I use has non-legal Mexicans doing most of the work. I should buy a mower soon, as there could be a "run" on lawn care and landscaping equipment in a couple of months. And there may not be enough "gringos" around to do all that work, causing prices to go way up, and service quality to go way down.

 

[South Bound]

Good question, and I don't know the answer. The hints I am getting is that since she arrived so long ago (30-35 years back) she may have been granted a permanent resident designation and was able to get a DL and an SS number. Don't know about that. She apparently is a regular employee of a company in the area, which means she is paying payroll taxes.

Then she should be arrested for identity theft and tax fraud

As I said in another thread, I may have to cut my own grass this summer, since the company I use has non-legal Mexicans doing most of the work. I should buy a mower soon, as there could be a "run" on lawn care and landscaping equipment in a couple of months. And there may not be enough "gringos" around to do all that work, causing prices to go way up, and service quality to go way down.

I've been cutting grass for fifty years. It won't kill you.

 

[Martinius]

Then she should be arrested for identity theft and tax fraud

If she is using her real name and is paying taxes, then there is no ID theft or tax fraud.

I've been cutting grass for fifty years. It won't kill you.

But then I would have less time to spend on CF. And with cost of the mower and equipment, fuel and maintenance, it is more economical to pay someone.

 

[South Bound]

If she is using her real name and is paying taxes, then there is no ID theft or tax fraud.

You keep changing your story. Is she here legally or illegally?

But then I would have less time to spend on CF. And with cost of the mower and equipment, fuel and maintenance, it is more economical to pay someone.

Actually, unless you plan on throwing your lawnmower away every year and buying a new one it's far more economical to buy a lawnmower and do it yourself.

 

[Martinius]

You keep changing your story. Is she here legally or illegally?

I don't KNOW the whole story. Notice I say "if". I have some of the same questions as you. I am told by someone who would know that she is an "illegal". But I am finding stories of people who came to the U.S. illegally at a young age, as she did, and were granted Green Cards or were given quasi-legal status that allowed them to work legally as adults. This was two or three decades back, so it may have been easier then. When I get the chance I will find out more.

Actually, unless you plan on throwing your lawnmower away every year and buying a new one it's far more economical to buy a lawnmower and do it yourself.

Here is my rationale for hiring someone to do my lawn. I get my yard, which is one of the largest in the neighborhood, cut, trimmed and edged for a dirt cheap price. I have already listed some of the out-of-pocket expenses I would incur doing it myself. But there is another cost that a lot of people don't think about, the cost of their time. Say my time is worth $30/hour. If I can have someone do all that work for less than that (which I do) then I am ahead. If I were to do all the work myself it would take at least 2, maybe 3 hours to do what they do in less than an hour. So the cost for me to do the work would be at least double what I pay now. And my savings is even greater when you realize I am not dishing out hundreds of dollars for equipment and fuel. So to have these "pros" take care of my lawn is a good economic decision.

But, if and when the guys who now do my lawn get deported, I will undoubtedly have to pay a lot more for the service or do it myself. Either way my costs go up.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Here's another real scenario.

A Canadian young woman in World War Two served in Great Britain in military uniform and married a British man. 60 years later, with British children and grandchildren, her husband died and the bureaucracy served her with a deportation order because she was supposedly over there illegally. (This actually happened; though it was quickly rectified.)

To call someone "illegal" in those circumstances is somewhere between a bureaucratic bungle and a slander.

Often it takes a lot of work between officials and lawyers to come to a precise and legally appropriate conclusion to some cases.

It seems, however, that slandering people with complex, longstanding links with North America with the term "illegal" is something that some ppl unfortunately do with relish and for reasons of political campaigning, as if such individuals are supposedly in the same category as someone who has entered clandestinely.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Let's say a little girl came to America with her parents from Mexico, illegally, 30 years ago. She was too young to understand what was happening, had no say in what her parents did. Now she is married to a U.S. citizen, and they have children. She works, pays taxes, acts like a good citizen, but is an illegal.

Should this woman be deported? Should she, her husband and her children live in constant fear that she could be "picked up" and deported? Would it be right to deprive her children, due to a decision by their grandparents? Does it make sense to separate her from her family, and send her to a country she doesn't remember, where she has no family?

Lots of people from Hispanic families are in very similar situations to the one you describe.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Here's another scenario from the writer W E B Griffin.

In WW2, American and other Allied troops at great personal and collective cost liberated France after the Normandy Landings.

Decades later, the French government supposedly tries to charge the US for damage to the Normandy coastline which was sustained while the Americans were liberating the French.

After all, the perverse argument could run that the Americans weren't even French citizens, it wasn't a French government operation to land in Normandy and so supposedly the US owes the French damages. Some fanatical French nationalists - embarrassed at having had the need to be liberated in 1944 - could even try to call American troops 'illegals', in order supposedly to bolster the claim for damages.

My point is that there comes a stage when the host country has some moral obligation to people who either have a strong connection with the host country or else have done the host country some service.

 

[Tallguy88]

No, let that person stay. Underage when came here, married to a citizen, parent to citizens. If a clean criminal record, then I say give legal status.

I withdraw my support for this woman. Turns out she's a convicted felon who was ordered to self deport years ago. Convicted criminals should get no leniency in the immigration process.

For years, immigration authorities gave this Arizona mother a pass. Now she has been deported.

 

[Martinius]

I withdraw my support for this woman. Turns out she's a convicted felon who was ordered to self deport years ago. Convicted criminals should get no leniency in the immigration process.

For years, immigration authorities gave this Arizona mother a pass. Now she has been deported.

Not the same woman. The one I am talking about is a person I know, not the woman in Arizona. Until a few days ago, I had no idea that she came to the U.S. as a child, illegally.

 

[Tallguy88]

Not the same woman. The one I am talking about is a person I know, not the woman in Arizona. Until a few days ago, I had no idea that she came to the U.S. as a child, illegally.

Oh, nevermind then. I think I got my threads mixed up. There was a thread on the woman I linked to specifically.

 

[Martinius]

Thanks to another case in the news, I see there is a program called "Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals" that allowed young people who came to America illegally as children to remain in the U.S. and work legally. About 750,000 people have received this deferral. I am thinking that this is what happened to the person I know. However, might be over the age allowed for the program, but I am not sure. If she did qualify for this program, that would explain how she could be working at a "regular" job legally.

But, based on what she and her family are hearing, she may be concerned that her deferment could end, making her at risk for deportation.

 

[Tallguy88]

The DREAM act never passed nationally, but several states have their own versions of it. She may have been covered under that. It won't make her a legal resident (since immigration policy is set by the Federal Government), but she can be treated similarly to legal residents by state and local authorities and institutions.