A re-examination of nothing

[EnemyPartyII]

I think sodomy is gross for heteros to be doing.

You are entitled to think that. If you don't like it, don't do it.

But I ask again, why do you care so much about what anyone else does in their own bedroom?

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Probably not.

Well, at least you bes honest ...

What does "bes" mean and why do you use it?

Bes this a sincere question? Do you truly seek an answer?

 

[savedandhappy1]

It's EnemyPartyII's 22 BIRTHDAY TODAY!

I haven't forgot about the post, yesterday, well not enough hours in the day.

 

[savedandhappy1]

Right, but you seem to think it bes helpful to ppls somehow for you to be mean or cruel or scathing or horrid in how you talksy them if they have not yet experienced everything they hope to experience when they turn to JC. Why you cannot grasp how painful that bes to be trapped in that twilight zone of discrepancy, and why you think treating them nasty rather than with kindness and compassion will even remotely be acceptable let alone actually help, bes beyond this one.

I thought this thread was about re-examinating nothing, not how should homosexuals and bi-sexuals be treated. That thread in down a few.

So are we off topic and debating about a person and not the subject?

Boy there are times I wish I could justify using the report button like others do.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

if you think it reported you yesterday, you bes mistaken.
so kindly do not take that out on this one. it had nothing to do with you being reported; it bes not even on the thread at the time.
and please do not derail the thread into debating about Moriah. been done way too many times already and all to no avail. like a bad penny it just keeps turnsy up.

 

[davedjy]

You are entitled to think that. If you don't like it, don't do it.

But I ask again, why do you care so much about what anyone else does in their own bedroom?

True, why would anyone care?


Btw, Happy Birthday, I hope you have a great one!

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Yes Happy Birthday EP II!!

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

Indeed. However, the artefacts you cite correct identifiable faults.

Trying to change one's inherent sexuality is not correcting any identifiable fault.

I don't know if you can change one's sexuality, but it does seem to be a disorder both in biology, philosophy and possibly theology.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Any alteration process would involve reconfigurations via aggressive sexual imprinting ...

It would post links but not sure if that would run afoul of current rules structure. Google "sexual imprinting" for more information, and of course try to stick with the more scholarly & objective articles rather than those going into woo-woo land.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Right, but you seem to think it bes helpful to ppls somehow for you to be mean or cruel or scathing or horrid in how you talksy them if they have not yet experienced everything they hope to experience when they turn to JC. Why you cannot grasp how painful that bes to be trapped in that twilight zone of discrepancy, and why you think treating them nasty rather than with kindness and compassion will even remotely be acceptable let alone actually help, bes beyond this one.

I talksy them as if they bes already Christians as they claim. They need bes talksied to as a disobedient childsy.
They don't think they are trapped in"discrepancy" (in other words, hypocrisy and error). They bes mean to those who hold the light. They don't want the light. They bes happy in the dark.

 

[Ohioprof]

I think sodomy is gross for heteros to be doing.



My God didn't make me that way. And I do have sexual desire, as I remained celibate for many many years just like God asked in the Bible. I didn't "partner up" just because I couldn't get married, and seriously considered remaining single for the rest of my life.

So tell me what makes you better than me. Loving monogamous relationships are nothing more than an excuse to have gay-sex together without any hope of ever having kids. It's sexual idolatry pure and simple just like abortion.

What a sad view of marriage, to think that it's only an excuse to have sex.

I feel sorry for you, that you have this cynical view of a loving marriage.

 

[Floatingaxe]

What a sad view of marriage, to think that it's only an excuse to have sex.

I feel sorry for you, that you have this cynical view of a loving marriage.

He never said that. Read it again.

 

[davedjy]

I talksy them as if they bes already Christians as they claim. They need bes talksied to as a disobedient childsy.
They don't think they are trapped in"discrepancy" (in other words, hypocrisy and error). They bes mean to those who hold the light. They don't want the light. They bes happy in the dark.

You aren't going to get far with anyone if you think you can talk to a gay or lesbian as if they are a "disobedient childsy". That mindset doesn't show any humility, and isn't any way to minister to anyone.

Really, if I was a "childsy" that wanted whatever I could get like a spoiled brat, the last thing I would ask for is to be a gay, bisexual or a lesbian. Most of us would love to be straight, but one needs to make the decision that this isn't going to change, you adjust and move on.

You keep mentioning "living in the dark", but those who wish to see the testimonials on beyondexgay.com, can see when "ex-gays" were living in the dark.

They bes mean to those who hold the light

You refer to a gay or lesbian who claims Christianity needs to be talked to as a"disobedient childsy", and you say this and you don't see the irony?

 

[Floatingaxe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCV1Y8WkZKI


Our theme for the 2008 Freedom Conference is "A New Day." We believe that this is not just a theme for Exodus, but for the entire Body of Christ. God is doing an exciting, new, and fresh work in the lives of His people, His church, and the world. Exodus senses that He is stirring and calling all of us to rise up and participate in His Kingdom plans, which includes giving everyone the opportunity to make fresh starts and new beginnings.

His mercies are new everyday!
The faithful love of the Lord never ends! His mercies never cease. Great is his faithfulness; His mercies begin afresh each morning.
I say to myself, "The Lord is my inheritance; therefore, I will hope in him!"
-Lamentations 3:21-24 (NLT)

The Freedom Conference is a life-changing week that provides a safe place for those struggling with or impacted by homosexuality to find honest biblical answers and real hope when circumstances may seem to be extremely difficult or even impossible. With over 30 years of Freedom Conferences, we have witnessed God's transforming power at work in thousands of lives and have learned that truly nothing is impossible with God. As we look forward to this year's Exodus International Freedom Conference, we expect to see hundreds of individuals make fresh commitments to the Lord and take on an entirely new way of life -- a God fashioned life, a life renewed from the inside and working itself into their conduct as God accurately reproduces His character in them. (Ephesians 4:24 - The Message).




If you haven't experienced an Exodus Freedom Conference, we hope that you will pray about joining us. You will discover new purpose, new hope, and a new perspective that the journey God has for you is about so much more than this one issue. The Freedom Conference will provide you with practical tools, resources, and the encouraging truth of Jesus who made the ultimate sacrifice so we can exchange our old life for a new life of freedom.

This means that anyone who belongs to Christ has become a new person. The old life is gone; a new life has begun! (2 Corinthians 5:17 -- NLT)

Are you ready for a fresh start, a new beginning, a new day? Regardless of your reason for attending this year's conference, we know that God will meet you there! Forget the past and look forward to what lies ahead. Don't give up! Press on to reach the end of the race and receive the heavenly prize for which God, through Christ Jesus, is calling you (Philippians 3:13-14 emphasis added).

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

I talksy them as if they bes already Christians as they claim. They need bes talksied to as a disobedient childsy.

Humans have been severely poorly wired for that endeavor. Centuries of toxic methods of speaking to disobedient children -- which result only in harm and destruction of their sensitive spirits and the warping of their characters and self-concepts rather than producing obedience -- bes hardwired and programmed into human parenting responses and defaults. Typical methods attempting to overcome this overcompensate and err on the opposite side, thus exacerbating the problem for the next generation by seeming to reinforce the false sense of "rightness" of the original toxic mechanism.

In simple terms, the way human beings talksy to disobedient children flat out sucks 99% of the time. It does not result in obedience because it relies upon a false sublimation of the individual's wounded pride and desire to retaliate into and under the authoritarian impulse, mixes the two together, and results in abuse of the authority position which operates counterproductively, precipitating AND justifying rebellion rather than precipitating and encouraging cooperative obedience and the child's proactive, healthy participation in his own course of instruction and guidance.

They don't think they are trapped in"discrepancy" (in other words, hypocrisy and error). They bes mean to those who hold the light. They don't want the light. They bes happy in the dark.

You perceive them as mean because they bes reacting to what they perceive as harshness and cruelty in "those who hold the light". And even if you bes kind and compassionate with them, it may be that BECAUSE you bes kind and compassionate that they might believe they can open up to you and SHOW you the levels of pain dealt to them by others who claimed to have "held the light" and whose impact on their lives had been nothing short of spiritually and emotionally abusive and devastating. Admittedly, not everyone can handle that without taking it personally, but getting the poison OUT bes the first stage in healing, and necessary thereunto. IF, of course, one undertakes to be a healing presence in another's life.

Even if they bes "mean", remember they cannot help it. "Father forgive them for they KNOW NOT what they do" -- if JC can pray this for them whats pounding nails into Him with FULL awareness they bes killsy an INNOCENT person how much moreso does it apply to those who lash out at ppls that reminds them of the ppls whats abused and harmed them. The whole core and focus and purpose of the Christian life bes NOT ABOUT self, not about how self gets treated or whether self gets what it wants even if it THINKS what it wants bes "godly" and "right". It bes ALL about what kind of blessing can one be to these others whose need bes so great -- and the deeper the darkness, the greater the need. Marksy well.

 

[davedjy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCV1Y8WkZKI


Our theme for the 2008 Freedom Conference is "A New Day." We believe that this is not just a theme for Exodus, but for the entire Body of Christ. God is doing an exciting, new, and fresh work in the lives of His people, His church, and the world. Exodus senses that He is stirring and calling all of us to rise up and participate in His Kingdom plans, which includes giving everyone the opportunity to make fresh starts and new beginnings.

His mercies are new everyday!
The faithful love of the Lord never ends! His mercies never cease. Great is his faithfulness; His mercies begin afresh each morning.
I say to myself, "The Lord is my inheritance; therefore, I will hope in him!"
-Lamentations 3:21-24 (NLT)

The Freedom Conference is a life-changing week that provides a safe place for those struggling with or impacted by homosexuality to find honest biblical answers and real hope when circumstances may seem to be extremely difficult or even impossible. With over 30 years of Freedom Conferences, we have witnessed God's transforming power at work in thousands of lives and have learned that truly nothing is impossible with God. As we look forward to this year's Exodus International Freedom Conference, we expect to see hundreds of individuals make fresh commitments to the Lord and take on an entirely new way of life -- a God fashioned life, a life renewed from the inside and working itself into their conduct as God accurately reproduces His character in them. (Ephesians 4:24 - The Message).




If you haven't experienced an Exodus Freedom Conference, we hope that you will pray about joining us. You will discover new purpose, new hope, and a new perspective that the journey God has for you is about so much more than this one issue. The Freedom Conference will provide you with practical tools, resources, and the encouraging truth of Jesus who made the ultimate sacrifice so we can exchange our old life for a new life of freedom.

This means that anyone who belongs to Christ has become a new person. The old life is gone; a new life has begun! (2 Corinthians 5:17 -- NLT)

Are you ready for a fresh start, a new beginning, a new day? Regardless of your reason for attending this year's conference, we know that God will meet you there! Forget the past and look forward to what lies ahead. Don't give up! Press on to reach the end of the race and receive the heavenly prize for which God, through Christ Jesus, is calling you (Philippians 3:13-14 emphasis added).

Haven't we been over this? Let's not disguise what Exodus really is about...it's reparative therapy = dangerous and doesn't work.

Exodus International was co founded by Michael Bussey and Gary Cooper, who decided that the program was a scam and doesn't work. To prove it all the more, they fell in love with EACH OTHER, and left their wives to be together!


Bussey is now a family counselor for gay and lesbian couples. He admits that his past work did "psychological damage...there may very well be people out there that I talked to who are dead, having committed suicide because of the guilt that I inadvertently heaped on them. I feel guilty about that. It was well intentioned. I was getting brainwashed by the church; this is what I was supposed to be doing. But it damaged me; it damaged the people I talked to."


"Ex-gay" programs have been denounced by every respected medical and mental health care organization and child welfare agency in America, including:

American Psychiatric Association
American Psychological Association
American Medical Association
American Academy of Pediatrics
American Association of School Administrators
American Federation of Teachers
The Interfaith Alliance Foundation
National Academy of Social Workers
National Education Association
American Counseling Association
World Health Organization
Council on Child and Adolescent Health.


http://www.xnforums.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=print_topic;f=18;t=000761

 

[davedjy]

They don't want the light. They bes happy in the dark.

This quote referring to Exodus International, a man in the program (the organization of the conference you quoted):


One man, according to the pair, suffered such psychological damage that he mutilated his own genitals with a razor blade in a desperate attempt to rid himself of his sexual desires. Another impulsively underwent an incomplete sex change operation because he believed his sexual desires might receive divine approval if he were biologically a woman.


http://www.xnforums.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=print_topic;f=18;t=000761



That would be the "light" for those on this thread to see, psychological DAMAGE.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

[bible]Matthew 16:24-25[/bible]
[bible]Mark 8:34-35[/bible]
[bible]Luke 9:23-24[/bible]

For the gay Christians here, it would like to pose a question: how do you understand the above verses with regard to your innate sexual orientation which you cannot change? Do you tend to interpret these verses as:

• suggesting you should try to change your orientation (thus making living a hetero-typical lifestyle, marriage & kids, the "cross" you bear)?
• suggesting you should cope with your orientation by maintaining lifelong celibacy (e.g. count yourself a "eunuch for the kingdom of Heaven's sake", thus making a life without sexual gratification your "cross to bear")?
• an indication of what you already suffer from discovering yourself to be gay then coming out of the closet, putting up with misunderstanding, ridicule, harassment, social persecution, perhaps even violence in some cases living as an honest, transparent gay Christian?
• a symbol for how you feel as a gay Christian because other Christians don't "get" why you feel in good conscience you can live out your faith in tandem with a life-long monogamous same-sex partner?
• something else entirely? (please elaborate and/or explain)

Just curious to know the various ways in which gay Christians parse the conflicts it imagines they must feel between their sense of sexuality and their desire to give their hearts and lives to JC in the light of so much opposition and conflict and controversy from the Body of Believers over this issue and the question of how to parse the Bible verses that address this issue.

And how and where do we draw the line between "alternative sexuality" and outright deviance or aberration? Because once upon a time as we know homosexuality bes regarded as a mental disorder, a "disease" or condition needing "curing". Today it bes seen as a sexual variant occurring in nature and therefore within the "normal range" of human sexuality. But many other sexual configurata get seen as deviancies, aberrations, total abominations and even criminal in nature. Where do we draw that line as a society and by what criteria do we make those determinations?

 

[Ohioprof]

He never said that. Read it again.

I read the post again. And that's exactly what he said. It's sad.

 

[davedjy]

Loving monogamous relationships are nothing more than an excuse to have gay-sex together without any hope of ever having kids. It's sexual idolatry pure and simple just like abortion.

Where is your PROOF that gays and lesbians get into monogamous relationships just for the sex? Uneducated generalization.
I know plenty that are in love with each other.