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A Random Thought

Valkhorn

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I was sitting down today and listening to a little music and I had a thought. I've heard many arguments here from creationists who argue that the age of the earth is exactly 6000 years old. I've also heard arguments here from those that believe that man is the most important creation of God in the universe. I've also heard from some of you that there is likely to be no other life anywhere else because it's not mentioned in the Bible, perhaps.

Well I just want to run this by you. Consider the following:

In our galaxy we know that there are a certain number of stars. We do not know the exact number, but we can take a sampling of perhaps a million stars at random points in the universe, find their average mass (which is generally around 0.8 solar masses) and divide that into the known mass of the Galaxy. Now planets and space dust do contribute to part of the total mass, however compared to the density of stars they can be somewhat negligible. Remember, the total mass of all of our planets, asteroids, and moons in our solar system only equals about a tenth or less of the mass of our Sun.

So, we can derive a round approximation of the number of stars in the Milky Way galaxy - and that is around 150,000,000,000 stars. The number could be as low as 100,000,000,000, or as high as 250,000,000,000, but for the sake of this argument we will use a number of 150 billion.

Now, let's say today we started physically going out to each star and exploring it. Also, let's say that we can teleport out to the star and gather all the data we need within a second. That is a very unrealistic amount of time to do that but for the sake of this argument, let's just speculate what it would be like if we had the power to do that.

With that, it would take 150,000,000,000 seconds to completely explore every single star. How long is that? Well a billion seconds is generally 32 years. So, with 150 billion seconds we would need 4,800 years to explore every single star in that method.

There are also 200,000,000,000 galaxies in our universe. So, with that in mind for our argument, we would need almost one QUADRILLION years to explore every single star in the universe if we only spent one second on it.

I think that's a very humbling thought, and although it may be a little erroneous somewhere with the numbers, the facts remain. Why would there be a need to create a universe so expansive that it would take us 4 quadrillion years at least to explore every single star in it? Why would God try to create something so huge and so expansive for an Earth that has only been around for 6000 years? Why, if the Bible is the word of god, would it ignore the 10^25 other star systems in the universe for just our own?

And, why would there be a need for some God to come back down and take everyone back out of this incredible universe before we even had the chance to explore his supposed 'creation'?

I'm not sure if this goes in the apologetics forum or not, but since it deals with science I feel this is the place for it to be.

Any questions? Comments?
 

Valkhorn

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Exactly, and I think it's a healthy thing to think of the vastness of the universe because to me, it's like why need religion and fantasy when the real world we live in provides enough for us to explore and see for the rest of our lives and the life of civilization?
 
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SBfaithful

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Valkhorn said:
I think that's a very humbling thought, and although it may be a little erroneous somewhere with the numbers, the facts remain. Why would there be a need to create a universe so expansive that it would take us 4 quadrillion years at least to explore every single star in it?
If you can imagine how long it would take for the human race to explore all these stars, why can't you also imagine that the human race will survive for another, oh, let's say...8 quadrillion years. Why would it be impossible, Lord willing, for the human race to explore the entire universe?



Why would God try to create something so huge and so expansive for an Earth that has only been around for 6000 years?
To reveal his glory. Eye candy? I'm not quite sure why. But, then again, I might be misunderstanding your question here.


Why, if the Bible is the word of god, would it ignore the 10^25 other star systems in the universe for just our own?
Ummm...because we are the only ones (as far as we know) that God cares about. What does the ignoring of other stars have to do with the bible being the word of God?



And, why would there be a need for some God to come back down and take everyone back out of this incredible universe before we even had the chance to explore his supposed 'creation'?
I don't know if he will exactly come back down to take us out of the universe. I think, we as Christians, will sort of meet him in the air. You should probably ask that question in the eschatology section. And again, why do you keep insisting that we will not have a chance to explore the entire universe? You seem to have a good imagination, so why not imagine the human race surviving for another 8 quadrillion years.
 
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Valkhorn

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Ummm...because we are the only ones (as far as we know) that God cares about. What does the ignoring of other stars have to do with the bible being the word of God?



Mmmkay, think about it. If the Bible is the word of god, how come it conveniently ignored the knowledge and existence of say...


10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 other stars in the universe?


Also, it's just a very arrogant assumption to think that our sun, which is what...


1
-------------------------------------------------------------
10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

of all the stars in the universe, is the only one that is deemed 'special' enough for life? And our only evidence FOR this is an ancient book that was written, by man no less, 2000 years ago? On top of this, it was written when there was no knowledge of outter space other than what shapes stars made in the sky at night (constellations)?​

Think about it.​
 
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SBfaithful

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Valkhorn said:
Mmmkay, think about it. If the Bible is the word of god, how come it conveniently ignored the knowledge and existence of say...


10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 other stars in the universe?




OK, I am thinking about it...


Ummm...It conveniently ignored them because they are insignificant. Why does the bible ignore DNA? Why does the bible not address viruses? There are a million whys. When you look up at the sky, is it not beautiful? Is it not enough that it could just be art...eye candy for humans.


Also, it's just a very arrogant assumption to think that our sun, which is what...
1
-------------------------------------------------------------
10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

of all the stars in the universe, is the only one that is deemed 'special' enough for life? And our only evidence FOR this is an ancient book that was written, by man no less, 2000 years ago? On top of this, it was written when there was no knowledge of outter space other than what shapes stars made in the sky at night (constellations)?​



Think about it.​
Fine...So maybe it is possible that there is life on other planets. So, then, the rest of the universe would not be useless. Is it also not arrogant to think that we, as humans, can't fill up the universe in say...

10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years.

Maybe all the other systems aren't useless. Maybe they are there for future generations. I don't understand what the problem with thinking that we are special is. When I look around, I feel pretty special. Whether you believe in God or not, living life as a human is pretty great.

I feel very "special."
:pray:
 
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Ataradrac

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SBfaithful said:
[/font]
When you look up at the sky, is it not beautiful? Is it not enough that it could just be art...eye candy for humans.[/font]

[kidding]
In that case, God has a great sense of aesthetics.

Oh, wait. He also came up with the naked mole rat. Never mind. ;)
[/kidding]
 
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gluadys

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SBfaithful said:
If you can imagine how long it would take for the human race to explore all these stars, why can't you also imagine that the human race will survive for another, oh, let's say...8 quadrillion years. Why would it be impossible, Lord willing, for the human race to explore the entire universe?




And again, why do you keep insisting that we will not have a chance to explore the entire universe? You seem to have a good imagination, so why not imagine the human race surviving for another 8 quadrillion years.

He doesn't mention it in the OP, but perhaps he is keeping in mind that according to current estimates the solar system, including earth, will not exist longer than another 5 or so billion years. And well before the sun goes out, earth will be uninhabitable. So we only have a few billion years to explore a universe which it would take 8 quadrillion years to explore.

To bring that into imaginable numbers, that is like asking someone to explore a planet in less than 5 years which it would take 8 million years to explore.

Even if we assume that humans somehow manage to find other planets to live on, the problem doesn't go away, since current expectations are that the universe will succumb to heat death and be totally uninhabitable in a few hundred trillion years (final vengeance of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics). So we still fall short of 8 quadrillion years by quite a bit.
 
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lucaspa

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Valkhorn said:
Mmmkay, think about it. If the Bible is the word of god, how come it conveniently ignored the knowledge and existence of say...


10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 other stars in the universe?
Because they weren't relevant to the very important theological truths that people at the time needed to hear. Notice that the number of atoms in a human body, which is larger, isn't mentioned either.


Also, it's just a very arrogant assumption to think that our sun, which is what...
of all the stars in the universe, is the only one that is deemed 'special' enough for life?
Who says it is the only one? The Bible simply doesn't talk about life on other planets. Again, irrelevant to the message and the people. The idea that life is only on our planet is a theory constructed by some Christians.


If evolution is how God created, then God has lots of sentient species in the universe to converse with other than us. The Psalmist caught part of the wonder of our insignificance when he said "What is man, that thou art mindful of him?" Doesn't sound much like arrogance, does it? :)
 
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