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HumbleSiPilot77

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I have every intent to learn more about Orthodoxy and convert eventually. I have to wait until I go back to US though.

So I am still learning. What are the differences between an Antiochian and OCA church?
 
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Akathist

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I think that there are few differences between Antiochian and OCA in structure of service and other important matters. However, Antiochian uses the Byzantine chant and OCA tends to use Russian chant. (My OCA church uses a mix of both Byzantine and Russian but that is because so many in the church love Byzantine and so many in the church don't want to stop using Russian.)

My OCA church has one prayer that is sung in Russian but otherwise the service is in english. I think that most OCA use english now for the most part. My understanding is that most if not all Antiocian use english but since I am OCA I can't tell for sure.

There is an Antiochian church about 40 mins from where I live and I love to visit it. I try to go at least once everyother month. If I had reason to move I would gladly switch to that jurisdiction.
 
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Petronius

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thornygrace said:
I think that there are few differences between Antiochian and OCA in structure of service and other important matters. However, Antiochian uses the Byzantine chant and OCA tends to use Russian chant. (My OCA church uses a mix of both Byzantine and Russian but that is because so many in the church love Byzantine and so many in the church don't want to stop using Russian.)

My OCA church has one prayer that is sung in Russian but otherwise the service is in english. I think that most OCA use english now for the most part. My understanding is that most if not all Antiocian use english but since I am OCA I can't tell for sure.

There is an Antiochian church about 40 mins from where I live and I love to visit it. I try to go at least once everyother month. If I had reason to move I would gladly switch to that jurisdiction.


Your explanation is very interesting even for me, a craddle Orthodox, about the American Orthodox community.
Hope it is also for Bushmaster, provided he knows already something about jurisdictions in the Orthodox Church.
 
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Stephanida

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My church is Russian Orthodox and the service is done in English and Russian. I think you should be in a church with at least some english if not mostly english. I also find there is beauty in another language and often it helps me to hear both. But especially as a new convert I strongly recommend you attend an english speaking parish but a non english speaking parish is better than no parish at all.

By the way, welcome home to Holy Orthodoxy!
 
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Xpycoctomos

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Petronius... what you said earlier about the crosses is true to an extent... but at CF, these crosses are used specifically to say "Hi, I am a _______" Of course, if you do not wish to specify then you can use the cross that is designated to say "Hi, I am a Christian". No one is trying to claim that this cross in really life can ONLY be used by Orthdoox or that the Crucifix can ONLY be used by Catholics. It's just a convenient way for a CF memeber to express which faith community he or she belongs to. So, it WOULD be wrong for the OP to use the Orthdoxo cross if he had no sure intent on becoming Orthdoox. As someone else here said, here this cross means that you are representing the Orthodox Church. Sure, you'll make mistakes... but it at least is to show that your INTENT is to fully represent the mind of the Church and no denomination.

PS: in regards to the OP: welcome to TAW and yes! use the Orthodox Cross!

John
 
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Petronius

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Xpycoctomos said:
Petronius... what you said earlier about the crosses is true to an extent... but at CF, these crosses are used specifically to say "Hi, I am a _______" Of course, if you do not wish to specify then you can use the cross that is designated to say "Hi, I am a Christian". No one is trying to claim that this cross in really life can ONLY be used by Orthdoox or that the Crucifix can ONLY be used by Catholics. It's just a convenient way for a CF memeber to express which faith community he or she belongs to. So, it WOULD be wrong for the OP to use the Orthdoxo cross if he had no sure intent on becoming Orthdoox. As someone else here said, here this cross means that you are representing the Orthodox Church. Sure, you'll make mistakes... but it at least is to show that your INTENT is to fully represent the mind of the Church and no denomination.

PS: in regards to the OP: welcome to TAW and yes! use the Orthodox Cross!

John

Yes, you stress here the practical application for this forum.
We should forget that Bushmaster is an incipient phase of eventually becoming an Orthodox. My intention was that these aspects be clear to him and I added some other practical things and guides to help him know what is important to practiice as an orthodox in any circumstance, not only on this forum. And of course some questions about the worshiping of 3D and about crucifixes, where I aspected more reactions from established and more or less experienced Orthodox.
However, the reaction to my post about the cross shows what each person thought that Bushmaster intended to know about the cross....
So any explication or other hints should be addressed to him, but I think that he already thanked for the suggestions/explications/hints and probably found out what he had wanted and perhaps some more as a bonus...
 
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Xpycoctomos

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Bushmaster said:
I am serving in Korea right now and I met a historian/librarian here, I have always been seeking the true church since I met Jesus and the protestant church. This brother coming from a lutheran background was God's gift to me, my interest in history met Christianity and found the only true church with its true worship. Well, military orthodox service is not like the real one in a cathedral, so I am waiting until I go back to US and find a home church.

Glad to be among you.

PS what is Johnie though?

I know what you mean by "real" service... but just to clarify, any Orthodox liturgy celebrated by a canonical priest is jsut as "Real" whether it was celebrated in the Cathedral in St. Petersburg, the very tomb of Christ or your priest's basement. I'm not saying you need to be chrismated there in Korea... I can see wanting to wait till you come home... but just wanted to make that clear. :)

John
 
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Akathist

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Petronius said:
Your explanation is very interesting even for me, a craddle Orthodox, about the American Orthodox community.
Hope it is also for Bushmaster, provided he knows already something about jurisdictions in the Orthodox Church.

Petronius, you are right, I should have explained more than I did. I'm sorry.

In Orthodoxy, the services involve those in attendence in responses. The Priest or Deacon, etc "say" something and there is a response. The "choir" or "chanter" leads the congregation in responses. In some jurisidictions and some ethnic expressions within jurisdictions, the congregation is less involved and one hears mostly the "choir" or "chanter".

I put "say" in quotations because while some things are vocally spoken, much of the service is "chanted". Chanting is informal like a sing-song expression of the words, or it is more formal with written notes of a melody and even harmony to be song. Some churches use a choir (All of the one's I have ever visited have used a choir) but I understand that sometimes there is a "chanter" or two instead of a group.

In the churches I have visited, except the Serbian Orthodox church, the congregation joined in most of the time (some individual's not wishing to join in have not.) IN the Serbian Orthodox Church I visited, there was a few people who joined in but it was a small percentage.

The melody of the chants are organized into "tones". There are 8 different tones. Basically the "tones" are melodies. EAch week we use a different "tone". This is true for both OCA and Antiochian and Greek etc etc.

The difference between Byzantine and Russian chant is about how the melody sounds. In Russian the melody involves harmony (as in a Soprano, Alto, Tenor and Bass line of music that forms cords). The music is "majestic and regal". Byzantine uses a more flowing style and typically there is mostly everyone singing the exact same notes in union with an underlying lower note song by one or two people.

I like both of these styles.

Keep in mind that we are talking about how the music is "chanted" (sung) and not what the words are. The actually words are almost identical in all the jurisidictions.
 
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ufonium2

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Petronius said:
Let us make some things clear. What I call crucifx is a 3D cross WITH a representation of Jesus Christ nailed on the cross....
Now, under the above "definition", are we talking about the same thing ?

We are talking about the same thing. It's a wooden Russian 3-bar cross with a 3-D, gold representation of Christ crucified on it.
 
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HumbleSiPilot77

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Xpycoctomos said:
I know what you mean by "real" service... but just to clarify, any Orthodox liturgy celebrated by a canonical priest is jsut as "Real" whether it was celebrated in the Cathedral in St. Petersburg, the very tomb of Christ or your priest's basement. I'm not saying you need to be chrismated there in Korea... I can see wanting to wait till you come home... but just wanted to make that clear. :)

John


I worded this badly, sorry, I tried to mean in a real cathedral environment. You know I have attended protestant services in the same chapel and even my priest try very hard to get everything similar to the cathedral atmosphere, budget cuts and not supporting the Orthodox priest, hinders the beauty, we could have bigger icons and more candles, etc. So yes it is a REAL orthodox liturgy which I am glad we are having. There is only 5 people attending though, it is sad.
 
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Xpycoctomos

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I understood what you meant. Admittedly I was splitting hairs because I know you didn't think it was somehow "fake" on your base or "more real" in the Cathedral. I jsut wanted to highlight the fact that although the smells and bells are nice and help us focus on God and Godly ideas and we should use them when practical and possible, the Eucharist is the Eucharist, regardless of the lack of icons and the presense of a sad looking makeshift altar. I know you know that... jsut wanted to... be annoying LOL.

God bless and thank you for serving our country.

John
 
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HumbleSiPilot77

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Also when I said I attended "contemporary" protestant services in the same chapel, I wanted to express my thoughts that I don't want to be associated that version of Christianity ever again, that is why being inthe same place kind of bothered me.

Like my priest says, they are just entertaining themselves, socializing during sundays. The real worship is the Orthodox way. I fully agree.
 
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Xpycoctomos

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Xpycoctomos was my attempt at transliterating (kind of) the Greek letters that spell Chrysotomos (or Chrysostom) for John Chrysostom is my patron saint. If you don't already know, he is one of the many very important Church Fathers of the first three centuries. Actually, I am sure you know his name because the Liturgy we usually use is attributed to him (even though he didn't write, he just modified it from what I was told).

Oh, and I don't know much about the icon. I think... Xenia (??) here can tell you more. Maybe it was someone else. But someone here posted a thread about it and I liked it and took it. It's of the Theotokos holding a crucifix and I have never seen one like it before.

John

John
 
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Petronius

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ufonium2 said:
We are talking about the same thing. It's a wooden Russian 3-bar cross with a 3-D, gold representation of Christ crucified on it.

I will ask my Archbishop and a very erudited (although still young) monk ... You may not know, but here in Europe we think that not everything what is coming from Russia is exactly how it has to be... I very keen to find out what would be the answer from those persons I consider competent ...
 
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Photini

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Xpycoctomos said:
Oh, and I don't know much about the icon. I think... Xenia (??) here can tell you more. Maybe it was someone else. But someone here posted a thread about it and I liked it and took it. It's of the Theotokos holding a crucifix and I have never seen one like it before.

John

John

John, my parish bookstore has one more Icon like that one. I'd be more than happy to pick it up for you. :) Let me know.
 
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