A question for Young-earthers

[ltrain]

Hey everyone, I haven't been in the young earth camp for a long time. I was wondering how important young earth creationsim is to your faith. If evolution was proved true, would this destroy your faith in any way? I've managed to do just fine (I'm an evolutionist) but some people think that if God didn't create in 6 twenty-four hour days, then the Christian fiath is blown to pieces.

What's the logic behind this?

ltrain

 

[ThaiDuykhang]

it doesn't matter if it's 24h per day at that time. it's 6 days that's important. God doesn't cheat us into believing he's greater than he actually is.

I think there's a good chance the first 6 days is very short since God is omnipotent and He loves His creation, He doesn't need time to finish a task.

Trying to prove evolution is true is like a strong agnostic tries to prove God's existence can't be proved.

 

[ILoveYeshua]

Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods
Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the Scripture cannot be broken;

So if you believe Christ, you gotta believe the flood, the creation, Jonah, all that stuff, or else you're saying the scriptures are broken and calling Christ a liar.

 

[jehovahjireh2007]

If evolution is true then where did sin come from. Why are we sinners and why do we need a Saviour? Evolution does not explain this. I believe in a young earth and that it took six literal days for God to bring Creation into being.

Derbystudent

 

[Breetai]

If evolution is true then where did sin come from. Why are we sinners and why do we need a Saviour? Evolution does not explain this.

This is the crux of the problem with evolution.

It undermines the Gospel of Christ.

 

[The Lady Kate]

Oops wrong forum. sorry.

 

[Breetai]

Oops wrong forum. sorry.

Haha, I did that too!

 

[knownbeforetime]

I would cease to believe in God if evolution were proven beyond all doubt. If you study the Bible at all, you would conclude that the beginning directly influences the end.

Genesis --------- Revelation
sin entered ------ sin defeated
first creation ---- second creation
Adam and Eve --- Christ (second Adam) and Church
water baptism --- fire baptism
I found this goody on the net that goes into more detail on the above.

Romans 1:18 - 23 says, "The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles."

2 Peter 3:3-7 says, "First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation." But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men."

Evidently, only fools, scoffers, and those following evil desires believe anything other than what Genesis says. Don't shoot the messenger, that's just what the Bible says...

 

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

Goo to man evolution could never be proven since you can't remake the past. You can only guess it to be true. That is unless you have the true history written down by someone who was there, which is God. That is the main reason I am a young earth believer, that is what God has said. I am a young earth believer second because that is what the science shows.

 

[knownbeforetime]

Goo to man evolution could never be proven since you can't remake the past. You can only guess it to be true. That is unless you have the true history written down by someone who was there, which is God. That is the main reason I am a young earth believer, that is what God has said. I am a young earth believer second because that is what the science shows.

 

[ShilohCity]

Ultimately my faith is in God, not in creation. I don't believe that evolution could ever be proven true, however you can present all the evidence for it you want and it wouldn't shake my faith in Jesus. Faith can not be disproved. I will always hold the infallability of God over the fallible theories of man. Even where men may percieve a flaw in God or his plan, it is not a flaw on God's part, but on ours because we are the imperfect ones.

The Bottom Line is that I believe in God and therefore in creation, so no evidence for evolution could ever injure my faith.

 

[Buho]

What Project86 and ShilohCity said: First is absolute faith in God. A spinoff from that is absolute faith in God's inerrant word as recorded in the Bible. What clouds the last statement is when you get into interpretation which is fallable. Second is faith in young-earth creationism, because if evolution is a fact, the Bible simply disintigrates under all but the lightest scrutiny. That is not an exaggeration.

A spinoff of my second point is the accumulating science that supports a recent creation and the harder it is becoming for evolution to withstand the rigors of unbiased science. Yes, recent creation isn't completely explained by science (U/Pb dating suggests billions of years, and a complete YEC geological model is not agreed upon), but evolution is also not completely explained by science (origins of the Big Bang, origins of first life, genetic mechanism of evolution). This takes me back to my first point. Since both sides require faith, I'll side with what God said.

By the way, I was an evolutionist until I (first) became a Christian and (second) looked closer at the science behind evolution (going beyond high school textbooks, National Geographic, and the Discovery channel).

 

[mark kennedy]

My faith in God, the Bible and science is what makes me a creationist. I wouldn't find my faith shattered if I woke up tommorow and found myself convinced the we evolved from apes. There are a lot of Christians who have and they seem perfectly persuaded that Christ was raised from the dead and is coming in power and glory one day. What is odd about this whole controversy is I get the distinct impression that it distracts from the very thing that God is trying to get across in the gospel. The same power that created life from the void, raised Christ from the dead and worked miracles down through the ages is available to you by faith.

I wouldn't lose my faith because someone convinced me that I am little more then an ape. I would lose my faith in science if I came to realize that computer science was the same thing as a chimpanzee poking a stick in a termite mound. That's the beauty of the whole thing, it is the existance of science that makes the best argument for me that we are created in the image of the Living God. No ape ever designed, manufactured or programed a computer. The idea that one could is so absurd it is a credit to the evolutionist that we have to wonder whether an ape's descendants did or not.

Now if the human race was indifferent to the whole question of origins then there would be a reason for me to question creationism. The apes certainly are indifferent to the reality of God or the origins of life. Even the unbelievers have a fascination with the whole topic and get very excited over it. Apes don't, they could care less.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[ignorant and stupid]

The creation/evolution arguement is seperate from my faith. I believe in God because of the amazing things he has done in my life and that I know him and see him doing miracles around the world. This is real. Arguements about dates and theories long ago aren't.

 

[Breetai]

Ultimately my faith is in God, not in creation. I don't believe that evolution could ever be proven true, however you can present all the evidence for it you want and it wouldn't shake my faith in Jesus. Faith can not be disproved. I will always hold the infallability of God over the fallible theories of man. Even where men may percieve a flaw in God or his plan, it is not a flaw on God's part, but on ours because we are the imperfect ones.

The Bottom Line is that I believe in God and therefore in creation, so no evidence for evolution could ever injure my faith.

What a great answer!

 

[keyarch]

Hey everyone, I haven't been in the young earth camp for a long time. I was wondering how important young earth creationsim is to your faith. If evolution was proved true, would this destroy your faith in any way? I've managed to do just fine (I'm an evolutionist) but some people think that if God didn't create in 6 twenty-four hour days, then the Christian fiath is blown to pieces.

For me, my faith came about by investigating the world around me (General Revelation) and the claims from scripture (Special Revelation). They should both be fully compatible as a TRUE record of history. If they are not compatible, then either there is an error in our scientific understanding, or our religious beliefs and interpretations are wrong. I have faith that His Story (history) is the truth, but that many have misinterpreted it with regard to the age of the universe, earth and its biology.

In the same way, if I found out that we absolutely evolved from apes over millions of years; or there couldn’t have been a global flood; or that Jesus never rose from the dead, it would mean my faith was based on a lie and would be in vain.

1 Cor 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

YBC model:
1. God created the upper heavens (stars/universe) and the earth (covered in waters) sometime in the ancient past.
2. Around 6,000 years ago (based on genealogy from Adam), God formed the earth to be habitable and created and formed all the original biological life forms (kinds) in a literal 6 24-hour day period. Many of the ‘kinds’ have experience variations that are genetically allowed within them so they can survive in different environments.
3. Around 2460 years ago the earth was flooded as the account of Noah describes. www.genesistruth.org/documents/floodsource.pdf
4. Christ coming was prophesized, His life and death fulfilled all related prophecy, He was killed and rose from the dead and was seen by many afterwards until he ascended.

These are foundational to my faith and I believe they are absolute literal events.

Keyarch

 

[iwasbornforbattle]

I am with you guys. It doesn't make sense to me that millions of years are responsible for things like the Grand Canyon. If you take a look at the petrified forests and mini canyons that the eruption of Mt St Helens created, it is very easy to see that a world wide recession of water by way of shifting land forms and opening up volcanoes can be more feasible. God made us perfect. We didn't become perfection.

 

[Chief117]

Hey everyone, I haven't been in the young earth camp for a long time. I was wondering how important young earth creationsim is to your faith. If evolution was proved true, would this destroy your faith in any way? I've managed to do just fine (I'm an evolutionist) but some people think that if God didn't create in 6 twenty-four hour days, then the Christian fiath is blown to pieces.

What's the logic behind this?

How can you be an evolutionist and a young-earth creationist at the same time? I've never heard that before...

Well, I have some arguments along these lines and I would be happy to share them.

Genesis 1 tells us the order of creation. It also says that man and all animals were vegetarian (Gen 1:29)--this is important to point out because there was no death yet in the world--not even by predatorial animals.

Now, having pointed that out, notice this:

And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die." (Gen 2:16)
​

Now, if by nature all animals or ancestors of men die, then what possible weight could God's threat carry unless the death were an immediate punishment? None.

And Adam/Eve do not die immediately--rather they live several hundreds of years. This means that the evolutionary/old-earth theory is not compatible with Genesis.

OK, so I've seen some Christians able to live with themselves by calling God a liar in Genesis by saying that it is not literal. However, anyone willing to call Jesus a liar has some real issues:

"Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female..." (Matthew 19:4)
​

Now, if God used evolution to create man, how then could Jesus say that He created them "at the beginning?" This is certainly an irreconcilable statement.

Genesis is a literal account, and all theological doctrine has its roots in Genesis--God's gift of marriage, the origin of sin, the need for Jesus' atoning sacrifice, etc.

The Bible shows no evidence that creation occurred millions or billions of years ago. The Bible supports a young-earth theory.

God Bless.

 

[keyarch]

How can you be an evolutionist and a young-earth creationist at the same time? I've never heard that before...

I’m sure that he switched at some point.

Genesis 1 tells us the order of creation. It also says that man and all animals were vegetarian (Gen 1:29)--this is important to point out because there was no death yet in the world--not even by predatorial animals.

Since you pointed this out, I have to ask you:

• Does the Bible mention what the sea creatures were given to eat?
• Is it possible that the sea creatures did eat other living things and were created with attack/defense systems as they appear today? If so, then maybe other types of animals without a "Soul" killed to eat.
• Did the “curse” affect everything everywhere, or was it specific to certain things?
• Did the judgment of the flood involve the sea creatures?

I also take Genesis literally. Having said that, I have no reason to believe that there wasn’t animal death (at least the ones without souls) before the “curse”. I have no reason to think that this condition wasn’t part of God’s original design that He saw as good. Adam and Eve did not “die” right away when they sinned, and it’s more plausible that a “spiritual” death is what’s being referred to. This doesn’t infer any creatures before the creation week, but rather an honest look at what is being said.

Let’s take a literal look at the “curse” and see what was affected:

a) According to Genesis 3:14 – The serpent was cursed more than the
cattle and beast of the field, and onto his belly he shall go and eat dust.
God put enmity between the serpent’s seed and the woman’s seed.
b) According to Genesis 3:16 – Unto the woman, He would multiply her
sorrow and in pain she would bring forth children. She would desire
her husband and he would rule over her.
c) According to Genesis 3:17 – Unto Adam, He cursed the “ground” for
his sake and in sorrow Adam would eat of it. The ground would bring
forth thorns and thistles to him, and he would eat the herb of the field.
In the sweat of his face, he would eat bread until he returned to the
ground. They were banished from the garden so they wouldn’t be able
to eat from the tree of life (or otherwise they would be able to live
forever).

I don’t see how cursing the ground so it will bring forth thorns and thistles translates into new designs (or a full expression of repressed genes) of all creatures such that there would now be death in the animal kingdom and the laws of physics would now include entropy etc. It was just the ground to make Adam have to toil for his food rather that just harvest the fruit from the Garden of Eden.

 

[Breetai]

Genesis is a literal account, and all theological doctrine has its roots in Genesis--God's gift of marriage, the origin of sin, the need for Jesus' atoning sacrifice, etc.

The Bible shows no evidence that creation occurred millions or billions of years ago. The Bible supports a young-earth theory.

God Bless.

Absolutely!