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A question for Old Earth Creationists

dad

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Sure it was.
No, God even asked man not to sin. Sin is basically a separation from God...like death.

Even if you try to blame Satan you then have to ask yourself who made Satan. All arrows point to God in your religion.

Man was not made a robot, that had to reject the rebellion of Satan and his council and lies. There was a plan of Salvation from the beginning. But we sure took the long way home.

Sure they were. See above.
No, the perversions and demonic surrender of Sodom and Gomorrah were not from God at all. The same spirit works today in places like the US.


"
Barack Obama has directed that U.S. diplomacy and foreign assistance promote the rights of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender men and women around the world."

Biden says ‘gay rights’ trump culture



The harvest ripens quickly! Hallelujah. Soon the time for reaping will come. This is solid evidence of the lateness of the hour folks.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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It seems some miss one of the main messages in the flood. That is that we should take it as a warning that sin and defiance against good and God's ways cannot escape extreme consequences. The Sodomites and Gomorraphiles were another lesson that the godless don't seem to get. It cannot be ignored for too long, and those that proudly refuse to heed His clear warnings will die.
And like Sodom and Gomorra, the future heaven and earth is reserved for destruction by fire........:preach:

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

Luke 12:49
Fire I came to be casting upon the Land and any I am willing if already it was kindled.

2 Peter 3:
6 through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water.
7But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment

Revel 16:
8 And the fourth messenger did pour out his vial upon the sun, and there was given to him to scorch men with fire,
9 Men were scorched with fierce heat; and they blasphemed the name of God who has the power over these plagues/stripes,
and they did not repent so as to give Him glory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en1uwIzI3SE


.
 
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Subduction Zone

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No, God even asked man not to sin. Sin is basically a separation from God...like death.

It does not matter what God asked. If I build an unstable building and ask it not to fall down and yet it does is it my fault or the building's fault? I asked it not to fall down. According to you it is the building's fault.

Man was not made a robot, that had to reject the rebellion of Satan and his council and lies. There was a plan of Salvation from the beginning. But we sure took the long way home.[/quoite]

Not a valid excuse. If man was not made a robot and God knew it then he should have based his punishment upon that fact. It looks like now you are claiming that God set us up to fail and it is still our fault. You like to flip the "heads I win, tails you lose" coin a lot.

No, the perversions and demonic surrender of Sodom and Gomorrah were not from God at all. The same spirit works today in places like the US.

Once again who made Satan? If you say God then he is ultimately to blame.


"
Barack Obama has directed that U.S. diplomacy and foreign assistance promote the rights of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender men and women around the world."

Biden says ‘gay rights’ trump culture

So if Obama did it it is wrong?

Excellent argument!!!


The harvest ripens quickly! Hallelujah. Soon the time for reaping will come. This is solid evidence of the lateness of the hour folks.

And poor dad still has nothing. How sad.
 
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dad

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It does not matter what God asked. If I build an unstable building and ask it not to fall down and yet it does is it my fault or the building's fault? I asked it not to fall down. According to you it is the building's fault.
I agree evolution is godless and unstable.


Not a valid excuse. If man was not made a robot and God knew it then he should have based his punishment upon that fact.
Why do you think man still breathes??

(now don't launch into some tirade about your supposed worm ancestors)
It looks like now you are claiming that God set us up to fail and it is still our fault. You like to flip the "heads I win, tails you lose" coin a lot.
I cannot apologize for your twisted view on the bible.


So if Obama did it it is wrong?
Probably! In the case of the articles cited, the stuff Obaba gung ho advocated and legislated was openly against nature and God.
 
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Subduction Zone

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I agree evolution is godless and unstable.

9th Commandment warning. I said nothing about evolution there. Is it that difficult to argue honestly?


Why do you think man still breathes??

Foolish question. Why would we stop breathing? Other animals breathe we breathe. It has nothing to do with an invisible friend.

(now don't launch into some tirade about your supposed worm ancestors)

You mean your worm ancestors.


I cannot apologize for your twisted mind.

Again, 9th Commandment warning and flaming warning. Be nice. Your rudeness only guarantees rudeness in return.


Probably! In the case of the articles cited, the stuff Obaba gung ho advocated and legislated was openly against nature and God.

Not against nature since like it or not since homosexuality is natural. It can be observed in many animal species. And not even necessarily anti-God. Only anti your version of God.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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It does not matter what God asked. If I build an unstable building and ask it not to fall down and yet it does is it my fault or the building's fault? I asked it not to fall down.
According to you it is the building's fault............

And poor dad still has nothing. How sad.
Gotta build it on the faith that is of Jesus, the "Rock"....:)

Matt 7:
24 "Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.
25" And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house;
and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock.…


 
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dad

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9th Commandment warning. I said nothing about evolution there. Is it that difficult to argue honestly?
You have said plenty about it. The first thing that comes to mind when I think of an unstable building built on the sand is evolution!

Foolish question. Why would we stop breathing? Other animals breathe we breathe. It has nothing to do with an invisible friend.

If God was finished with Adam and Eve when they sinned they would have ceased to breath.

Not against nature since like it or not since homosexuality is natural.


No, it isn't. No more than being inspired by dark spirits or giving over to dark lusts is natural.
It can be observed in many animal species.
Lots can be observed there. Cannibalism for example.

That does not make it natural for us.
And not even necessarily anti-God. Only anti your version of God.

The God of the bible is what matters here. All other gods don't amount to a hill of beans.
 
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Subduction Zone

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You have said plenty about it. The first thing that comes to mind when I think of an unstable building built on the sand is evolution!

Again try to be honest. Try to stay on subject. And since evolution is one of the most robust theories in the history of science it is far from unstable.



If God was finished with Adam and Eve when they sinned they would have ceased to breath.

Now that makes no sense at all. A claim that is neither supported by the Bible or by science. And if you post any misinterpreted text I will be laughing at you.



No, it isn't. No more than being inspired by dark spirits or giving over to dark lusts is natural.
Lots can be observed there. Cannibalism for example.

It is still "natural" it is still observed in nature whether you like it or not.

That does not make it natural for us.

You mean not natural for you or me, it is natural for humanity as a whole.



The God of the bible is what matters here. All other gods don't amount to a hill of beans.

Sorry, but there is no more evidence for your God than there is for any other god. So your saying other gods do not amount to a hill of beans is the same as you saying your God does not amount to a hill of beans.
 
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dad

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Again try to be honest. Try to stay on subject. And since evolution is one of the most robust theories in the history of science it is far from unstable.
Satan is one of the most robust liars. His goal is to cause doubt in the word of God and creation, and supplant these with his lies.



Now that makes no sense at all. A claim that is neither supported by the Bible or by science. And if you post any misinterpreted text I will be laughing at you.
Not sure how you could fail to grasp the obvious. Once again, the fact that God allowed man to live on in a fallen state as a race shows that He was not finished with us.



It is still "natural" it is still observed in nature whether you like it or not.
Natural for mankind is not defined by what bugs do. That may be hard to take for someone that believes worms had sex and man resulted!!


You mean not natural for you or me, it is natural for humanity as a whole.
God decides that. Not you or Obama.



Sorry, but there is no more evidence for your God than there is for any other god. So your saying other gods do not amount to a hill of beans is the same as you saying your God does not amount to a hill of beans.
If I want a worthless opinion of man, I might ask you.
 
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Subduction Zone

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Satan is one of the most robust liars. His goal is to cause doubt in the word of God and creation, and supplant these with his lies.

And who made Satan in your belief system? Who is responsible for his lies?

Of course most of us know that he is a myth.



Not sure how you could fail to grasp the obvious. Once again, the fact that God allowed man to live on in a fallen state as a race shows that He was not finished with us.

Allowed? How evil do you believe your God to be? You astound me sometimes.


Natural for mankind is not defined by what bugs do. That may be hard to take for someone that believes worms had sex and man resulted!!

Sure it is. You don't get to define "natural".


God decides that. Not you or Obama.

Well then your God seems to think it is natural too. The drive is in all sorts of animals including man.



If I want a worthless opinion of man, I might ask you.

Now dad, if that were true you would not be arguing with me.

Try again.
 
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RickG

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Provide evidence for a same state past. Scientific

Well I'll be delighted to dad. Below I will describe through three independent methods how we know the past has been he same.

You see all the evidence is at least as much mine once we stop coloring and tainting it with your beliefs.
What I provide is physical evidence based on the laws of nature. What you have suggested is a made up fantasy world. You are the only one doing coloring and tainting.

1. Decay rates:
a. When a radionuclided decays it emits energy, therefore heat. For decay rates to have been higher in the past to yield the ages we get with rocks millions or billions of years of age in only 4,300 years (since the flood), the earth would have become completely molten. Thus absolutely no life could have existed before the flood.
b. In chain decays, for example the uranium series, goes through 18 separate decays before becoming stable as lead. Each of these separate decays forms a different isotope with a completely different decay rate. Thus, any rocks formed before said flood with said accelerated decay rate would show different ratios between each of those 18 isotopes than those formed after said flood. All rocks formed before and after said flood (said change of physics) would show different ratios in the decay chains. And uranium is not the only decay chain, there are others and there are no decay ratio changes.
2. Measured decay rates from supernova:
a. SN1987A is 168,000 light years distant, or if you prefer, 51.4 kiloparsecs distant. One parsec is 19 trillion miles. So we not only have time, but measured distance as well. Gamma rays emitted from SN198A for isotope decay for several radionuclides measured showed that those decay rates of those isotopes are the same which were generated 168,000 years ago are the same as we measure on earth today.
b. SN1987B - same scenario.
3. Ice core chronology:
a. Ice cores have been dated on the Greenland ice cap upwards to 100,000 years. Cores in Antarctica date to 800,000 years.
b. Ice core chronology dates annual layers, which are easily distinguishable from multiple seasonal snowfalls.
c. There are numerous different (independent) proxies that can be used to not only distinguish annual layers, but seasons within as well. Some of these are heavy stable isotope ratios, acidity, pollen, Sodium and Chloride ions, ammonium, Lead, Sulphates, Nitrates.
 
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C

crazyforgod1212

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What a list of canards.

Decay rates:

Decay rates have been shown to be consistently false and erroneous.

Billion-fold acceleration of radioactivity demonstrated in laboratory - creation.com

How are we supposed to trust something that's so faulty? Do you even take into account the global flood?

Measured decay rates from supernova:

God could easily have sped up the light from these supernovae. We only have the APPEARANCE of age. But you weren't there to watch the actual event. You can't know. You're only relying on the fallible words of men, not God's word.

Ice core chronology:

LOL! What is this, amateur hour?

All ice cores are post-flood, and they can build up quite quickly. Ever hear of the lost squadron?
 
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Subduction Zone

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What a list of canards.



Decay rates have been shown to be consistently false and erroneous.

Billion-fold acceleration of radioactivity demonstrated in laboratory - creation.com

How are we supposed to trust something that's so faulty? Do you even take into account the global flood?



God could easily have sped up the light from these supernovae. We only have the APPEARANCE of age. But you weren't there to watch the actual event. You can't know. You're only relying on the fallible words of men, not God's word.



LOL! What is this, amateur hour?

All ice cores are post-flood, and they can build up quite quickly. Ever hear of the lost squadron?

Creation.com is not a valid source. See if you can find a peer reviewed source.

And if God sped up light that would increase the amount of energy released in decay. There is no evidence of that, and a billion squared increase in heat released would have left evidence.

Your claims are not supported by the Bible or by science.
 
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Subduction Zone

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Also the lost squadron landed on the edge of an ice sheet. Not in the middle.

If you lived near a mountain range you would know how increasing elevation causes precipitation. All ice cores come from what would be in the "Rain Shadow", although in this case it would be more properly called the Snow Shadow.

Rain shadow - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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AV1611VET

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Not a valid excuse. If man was not made a robot and God knew it then he should have based his punishment upon that fact.
Excuse me, but you are forgetting something:

God gave Adam & Eve maturity [w/o history] ... meaning they were responsible for their actions in every way.
 
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Subduction Zone

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Excuse me, but you are forgetting something:

God gave Adam & Eve maturity [w/o history] ... meaning they were responsible for their actions in every way.

No, it is you that is forgetting.

Adam and Eve are mythical. Myths do not have much effect on reality.
 
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Subduction Zone

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Excuse me, but you are forgetting something:

God gave Adam & Eve maturity [w/o history] ... meaning they were responsible for their actions in every way.

And even if this myth were true. Your claim is still bogus. God made them according to you he is responsible for their faults. You want to have it both ways. God supposedly made something but according to you he is not responsible for the things he made. Try to use that argument in a tort case and you will find that it does not fly there either.
 
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biggles53

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And even if this myth were true. Your claim is still bogus. God made them according to you he is responsible for their faults. You want to have it both ways. God supposedly made something but according to you he is not responsible for the things he made. Try to use that argument in a tort case and you will find that it does not fly there either.

Also, he made them without the knowledge of good and evil....so, when they supposedly 'disobeyed' his instructions about eating from the tree that would give them that knowledge, they cannot have known that what they were doing was 'bad'...

Their punishment was therefore grossly unjust....
 
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