A question for Old Earth Creationists

[justlookinla]

So now you are claiming that your state is permanent and you cannot learn?

I am sorry to hear that.

And on and on and on.

 

[AV1611VET]

You have not even justified your "former state" Biblically.

Since I'm in a good mood, I'll do this for the lurkers ... not for you.

Lurkers, not that I owe SZ an explanation, but for the record:

Explain this former state.

No death.

No entropy.

No spinose structures.

Universe an open system, fueled by Shekinah energy.

1. No death.

There was no death of man or animal before the Fall.

In fact, God refers to death as His ...

1 Corinthians 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

2. No entropy.

As the Bible puts it ...

Romans 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

This is considered a reference to entropy.

God did not create this universe to "groan and travail in pain."

And for the record, entropy is called "heat death."

3. No spinose structures.

This is pretty self-explanatory.

As a result of the Fall ...

Genesis 3:18a Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee;

4. Universe an open system, fueled by Shekinah energy.

This one is speculation on my part.

You are, of course, not obligated to believe any of this; but then I'm not obligated to accept I'm trolling.

 

[AV1611VET]

Exactly. The claim was made by SZ that he had 'mountains of evidence'. Since then there's only been evasion when asked for a post giving that alleged 'mountain of evidence'. And he continues to make the baseless, meaningless claim.

SZ does sloppy work here -- but he's not alone, either.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Since I'm in a good mood, I'll do this for the lurkers ... not for you.

Lurkers, not that I owe SZ an explanation, but for the record:


1. No death.

There was no death of man or animal before the Fall.

In fact, God refers to death as His ...

1 Corinthians 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

Okay, that is one. Of course I don't think anyone denied that particular Bible story.

2. No entropy.

As the Bible puts it ...

Romans 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

This is considered a reference to entropy.

God did not create this universe to "groan and travail in pain."

And for the record, entropy is called "heat death."

Well, it isn't. It seems that you do not understand entropy. And no, entropy is not called "heat death".

3. No spinose structures.

This is pretty self-explanatory.

As a result of the Fall ...

Genesis 3:18a Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee;

4. Universe an open system, fueled by Shekinah energy.

This one is speculation on my part.

You are, of course, not obligated to believe any of this; but then I'm not obligated to accept I'm trolling.

Yes, the spines on plants is another Bible story that no one said was not in the Bible. We know from evidence that spines predated men.

It was your silly entropy claim that caused me to point out that you could not justify your claims Biblically and you failed.

You do not even seem to know what entropy is. As has been pointed out life is impossible without entropy. There would be no point in eating anything without entropy. It seems the error was all yours.

 

[Subduction Zone]

AV, on entropy:

In thermodynamics, entropy (usual symbol S) is a measure of the number of specific ways in which a thermodynamic system may be arranged,

To have an entropy of zero, or no entropy, a system would have to be at absolute zero. No life. No movement. Entropy is necessary for life:

Entropy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[AV1611VET]

To have an entropy of zero, or no entropy, a system would have to be at absolute zero.

Unless said system was being fed with a kind of energy heretofore unknown.

I propose Shekinah energy as that engegy.

That's why I said the universe was an open system.

It was being fed by God himself, Who was keeping things running apart from entropy.

When the Fall occurred, all God had to do was withdraw this Shekinah energy, and the universe started winding down -- or "groaning," as the Bible puts it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Unless said system was being fed with a kind of energy heretofore unknown.

I propose Shekinah energy as that engegy.

That's why I said the universe was an open system.

It was being fed by God himself, Who was keeping things running apart from entropy.

When the Fall occurred, all God had to do was withdraw this Shekinah energy, and the universe started winding down -- or "groaning," as the Bible puts it.

Again, that is neither science based nor Biblical. To make a claim like that you need evidence first. Otherwise there is no valid reason to abuse the Bible in such a manner.

Try again.

 

[AV1611VET]

Again, that is neither science based nor Biblical.

Until someone comes up with something better, I'll go with that.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Until someone comes up with something better, I'll go with that.

Ours is better. It matches the evidence. It says if there is a God he is an honest god.

 

[RickG]

Is Israel the Promised Land?

Get back on topic

or take a hike.

 

[AV1611VET]

It's the OT that can take a hike.

Is Israel the Promised Land?

Get back on topic

or take a hike.

-- Will-do, chief!

 

[theophilus777]

So, once again you show that the distinctions between the aspects of trinity are conditional according to whatever argument you're trying to make at a given moment.

God, as a human, died* on the cross because God, as a human, is Jesus. God, as a human, did not create the universe. Jesus did not create the universe. According to the story, God, in his entirety (i.e. not as a human), created the universe.

This isn't rocket science.

Apparently it is rocket science, because you are still unable to grasp it as evidenced by your errors here.

 

[theophilus777]

Nothing is "set in stone" that is a foolish creationist type of idea.

No that is a foolish idea taught n science classrooms, giving rise to the opposition you see now.

The problem with a local flood is that it makes the Ark superfluous. Since only local creatures would be killed, which leaves man out since he was widespread at the supposed time of the Flood, a local flood would not have solved God's problem. And the evidence is abundantly clear that there was no global flood. In other words it is a lose lose situation for Flood advocates.

You wish! You kid yourself thinking you know what "solving God's problem" is supposed to mean.

 

[AV1611VET]

Apparently it is rocket science, because you are still unable to grasp it as evidenced by your errors here.

I think what atheists and scientists can't understand, is that ...

Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

There are three types of penalties:

1. justice = getting what you deserve
2. mercy = not getting what you deserve (Hell)
3. grace = getting what you don't deserve (Heaven)

By God demanding justice, yet God dying on the Cross, God can then become both [the] Just and [the] Justifier at the same time.

Thus, as our Judge, God can tell us we deserve Hell; but then, as our Justifier, God can give us Heaven!

Praise His holy name!

 

[theophilus777]

Let's see SZ squeeze his entropy into that

 

[Subduction Zone]

Let's see SZ squeeze his entropy into that

Into what? The problem of Noah's Ark is insurmountable for Christians.

As told it is the tale of an incompetent, vicious, irresponsible God. His creation was flawed so he kills everyone and blames them. That is not just no matter how you spin it. There never was a justification for the flood. So man was sinful in nature. So what? Who made man?

Second we know it never happened. A local flood does not do the job and a worldwide one would have left evidence behind.

It is a lose/lose for creationists.

 

[dad]

Into what? The problem of Noah's Ark is insurmountable for Christians.

As told it is the tale of an incompetent, vicious, irresponsible God. His creation was flawed so he kills everyone and blames them. That is not just no matter how you spin it. There never was a justification for the flood. So man was sinful in nature. So what? Who made man?

Second we know it never happened. A local flood does not do the job and a worldwide one would have left evidence behind.

It is a lose/lose for creationists.

It seems some miss one of the main messages in the flood. That is that we should take it as a warning that sin and defiance against good and God's ways cannot escape extreme consequences. The Sodomites and Gomorraphiles were another lesson that the godless don't seem to get. It cannot be ignored for too long, and those that proudly refuse to heed His clear warnings will die.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It seems some miss one of the main messages in the flood. That is that we should take it as a warning that sin and defiance against good and God's ways cannot escape extreme consequences. The Sodomites and Gomorraphiles were another lesson that the godless don't seem to get. It cannot be ignored for too long, and those that proudly refuse to heed His clear warnings will die.

So even though sin and defiance against God can be traced directly to him if you believe the Genesis stories for some reason God is not at fault. And now you are claiming that simply because God is against a drive that he himself put into people that they should watch out for their actions. That makes even less sense.

 

[dad]

So even though sin and defiance against God can be traced directly to him if you believe the Genesis stories for some reason God is not at fault.

False. Sin was not from Him.

And now you are claiming that simply because God is against a drive that he himself put into people that they should watch out for their actions. That makes even less sense.

The drives of Sodom and Gomorrah were not from God.

 

[Subduction Zone]

False. Sin was not from Him.

Sure it was. Even if you try to blame Satan you then have to ask yourself who made Satan. All arrows point to God in your religion.

The drives of Sodom and Gomorrah were not from God.

Sure they were. See above.