A question for Old Earth Creationists

[RickG]

Dear Rick, You posted: A question for Old Earth Creationists
Explain the fossil record without evolution?

I am an Old Earther since I show that the morning of the first Day was some 25+ Billion years ago. I was saying that "evolution" is NOTHING more than "changes within His kinds". Those are the kinds Jesus formed which Science calls "common ancestors". Changes within the kinds the Trinity created, are the same. It's descent with modification, and happens everytime a baby is born.

You do know the difference between His kinds and Their kinds. Don't you? God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

I have no idea what a kind is or how it even relates to biological classifications. Below is a list of biological classifications. I honestly would like to know where "kind" fits in.

Life
Domain
Kingdom
Phylum
Class
Order
Family
Genus
Species

 

[Mainframes]

Well ... don't worry.

God did not create a fossil record during the creation week.

As I have said before, it was never His intention for fossils to ever exist in the first place.

It was never his intention but it happened anyway. So God is fallible then....

 

[AV1611VET]

It was never his intention but it happened anyway. So God is fallible then....

That's not the definition of "fallible".

 

[Mainframes]

God is meant to be infallible but something happened that he didn't mean. Sounds fallible to me.......

 

[AV1611VET]

God is meant to be infallible but something happened that he didn't mean. Sounds fallible to me.......

If you factor "freewill" into the equation, your hearing will clear up.

 

[AV1611VET]

That's two things God has no control over, Satan and our freewill, both seems to throw him into a flat spin.

Does He have control over you? if not, that's three things, eh?

 

[AV1611VET]

How are you, consol?

staff edit

There is a difference in "having control over" and "controlling."

A "controlling God" would operate us like marionettes.

A God having control over us, but giving us freewill, would not operate us like marionettes.

Thus He can be infallible, despite His wishes not materializing.

 

[Aman777]

I have no idea what a kind is or how it even relates to biological classifications. Below is a list of biological classifications. I honestly would like to know where "kind" fits in.

Life
Domain
Kingdom
Phylum
Class
Order
Family
Genus
Species

Dear Rick, I'm sorry, but you have the man made list of classifications which has been changed more times than a baby's diaper. I'm speaking of the "kinds" which Jesus formed (Heb-shaped like a Potter molds the clay). Haven't you heard of Jesus? How that NOTHING was made without Him? Jhn 1:3 Where in the world do you think the "common ancestors" came from? God Bless you.

BTW, Since Humankind was made Billions of years BEFORE any other living creature, Humans could NOT have possibly evolved from any other living creature. Gen 2:4-7 This also means that your Linnaeus classification system has Falsely classified Humans with Apes. Humans did NOT evolve from the common ancestor of Apes so Science needs to overhaul it's entire system, and correct it's ignorant Theory of Evolution.

In Love,
Aman

 

[RickG]

Dear Rick, I'm sorry, but you have the man made list of classifications which has been changed more times than a baby's diaper. I'm speaking of the "kinds" which Jesus formed (Heb-shaped like a Potter molds the clay). Haven't you heard of Jesus? How that NOTHING was made without Him? Jhn 1:3 Where in the world do you think the "common ancestors" came from? God Bless you.

This is the current list. I has changed over time to include new information previously unknown and better describe life. All I am asking is which of the following do you consider to be a kind. Your help is much appreciated. Thanks.

Life
Domain
Kingdom
Phylum
Class
Order
Family
Genus
Species

 

[juvenissun]

Explain the fossil record without evolution?

Sequential creation in Day 5 and Day 6.

Simple question, simple answer.

Very good.

 

[Ophiolite]

Have any of you fundamentalists actually looked at the evidence? If not, would you be willing to do so?

 

[RickG]

Sequential creation in Day 5 and Day 6.

Simple question, simple answer.

Very good.

In other words, all life, both plant and animal, just popped into existence over a period of some 4 billion years at just the right time and place rather than evolution occurring. Is that what you are suggesting?

 

[Aman777]

I am not concerned with anyone's religious or secular beliefs. What I am concerned about is misunderstood or misrepresented science.

Dear Rick, Amen. You and I think just alike. That is WHY I show the AGREEMENT of Science, History, and Scripture. Without this AGREEMENT, you must keep searching but when you find this AGREEMENT, you have come as close as is Humanly possible, to God's Truth.

I show Scripturally that the current Multiverse was made on the 2nd and 3rd Days of Creation, each of which is some 4.5 Billion years, in length, in man's time. ONLY God could have possibly known and written this Scientific Fact more than 3,000 years ago.

Some falsely teach that the Bible was authored by mere, mortal, men. This is a Satanic Lie since ONLY God could have told us Scientific Truth, which we are yet to discover, in Genesis. A good example is the FACT that Gen 2:4 reveals that our Cosmos was made in the Big Bang on the THIRD Day.
Genesis 1:16 shows that the FIRST Stars of our Cosmos did NOT put forth their light until the FOURTH Day. Astronomers have recently learned that it was Hundreds of Millions of Years AFTER the Big Bang BEFORE the Stars lit. Lucky Guess? I don't think so.

Can you see the Truth which ONLY God could have known and caused men to write, from inside them? It's the ONLY way ancient man could have possibly gotten everything correct Scientifically, so long ago....IF you have the proper understanding. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

 

[RickG]

Dear Rick, Amen. You and I think just alike. That is WHY I show the AGREEMENT of Science, History, and Scripture. Without this AGREEMENT, you must keep searching but when you find this AGREEMENT, you have come as close as is Humanly possible, to God's Truth.

I show Scripturally that the current Multiverse was made on the 2nd and 3rd Days of Creation, each of which is some 4.5 Billion years, in length, in man's time. ONLY God could have possibly known and written this Scientific Fact more than 3,000 years ago.

Some falsely teach that the Bible was authored by mere, mortal, men. This is a Satanic Lie since ONLY God could have told us Scientific Truth, which we are yet to discover, in Genesis. A good example is the FACT that Gen 2:4 reveals that our Cosmos was made in the Big Bang on the THIRD Day.
Genesis 1:16 shows that the FIRST Stars of our Cosmos did NOT put forth their light until the FOURTH Day. Astronomers have recently learned that it was Hundreds of Millions of Years AFTER the Big Bang BEFORE the Stars lit. Lucky Guess? I don't think so.

Can you see the Truth which ONLY God could have known and caused men to write, from inside them? It's the ONLY way ancient man could have possibly gotten everything correct Scientifically, so long ago....IF you have the proper understanding. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

Frankly Aman, I don't try to reconcile the bible with science or science with the bible. They are completely unrelated. I will not ignore well know scientific facts just because they don't agree with ones' interpretation of the bible. I look at the bible as a source for inspiration, not a book of facts.

 

[Aman777]

Frankly Aman, I don't try to reconcile the bible with science or science with the bible. They are completely unrelated. I will not ignore well know scientific facts just because they don't agree with ones' interpretation of the bible. I look at the bible as a source for inspiration, not a book of facts.

Dear Rick, Then you must believe that Science is telling the Truth and God is just lying. Right? Some people stick their heads in the sand and believe that only they are correct. When tested, these same individuals cannot support their Ostrich Religion with anything but their own personal opinion.

Can you show us HOW both Science and Scripture can be correct since they are "completely unrelated"? Of course not. What it leaves us with is the FACT that you must believe that there is ONE Truth for Scripture and ONE Truth for Science. Total confusion is indicated. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

 

[RickG]

Dear Rick, Then you must believe that Science is telling the Truth and God is just lying. Right?

Wrong. There are things we know to be fact because we can test, observe, and retest many times and continue to the the same results. These results allow us to make predictions based on those facts and data acquired. Facts do not change. Saying I do not take the bible literally is not saying God is lying.

Some people stick their heads in the sand and believe that only they are correct.

There's a difference in a belief and an actual falsifiable fact.

When tested, these same individuals cannot support their Ostrich Religion with anything but their own personal opinion.

What do you specifically mean by ostrich religion? Are you talking about one's religious beliefs or science?

Can you show us HOW both Science and Scripture can be correct since they are "completely unrelated"?

I can't show scripture is correct, it is not independently verifiable. I can only believe and hope. Science on the other hand can be shown to correct or not. When science is found to be incorrect, it updates the new information and moves forward.

 

[Aman777]

Wrong. There are things we know to be fact because we can test, observe, and retest many times and continue to the the same results. These results allow us to make predictions based on those facts and data acquired. Facts do not change. Saying I do not take the bible literally is not saying God is lying.

Dear Rick, Are you saying that the Bible is NOT God's Literal Truth? IF so, then it's YOUR false interpretation of it, since God is perfect. Those who change God's Literal Truth into fables, allegory, and myth, are exposing the fact that they CANNOT understand what Scripture is teaching.

There's a difference in a belief and an actual falsifiable fact.

I agree. God's Holy Word is True Scientifically, Historically, and Scripturally IF you have the proper interpretation. I can't believe your view, which proposes that there are TWO Truths, one for Science and another for Scripture. That is FALSE.

What do you specifically mean by ostrich religion? Are you talking about one's religious beliefs or science?

An example would be a Scientist who refuses to realize that God knows more about Science than man will ever know. Or a Religionist who refuses to believe the discoveries of Science and History. IF God's Truth IS the Truth, then it MUST AGREE, in EVERY way with EVERY discovery of mankind. Right? A proper interpretation shows that God's Truth IS the Truth in EVERY way, LITERALLY.

I can't show scripture is correct, it is not independently verifiable. I can only believe and hope. Science on the other hand can be shown to correct or not. When science is found to be incorrect, it updates the new information and moves forward.

Only in your dreams. I've been showing scientists that the ToE is provably wrong, and NONE of them has tried to correct the error. What it shows is that Humans did NOT evolve from Apes. Unable to refute me or God, these scientists usually run away, mock me and God, or start calling names, and I don't know what happens to them after that since they soon disappear from the board.

NONE of them has ever been able to tell us How or When we changed from animal to Human intelligence or even the difference between the two. NONE of them has been able to show a single Human city, which was built BEFORE Noah arrived in the mountains of Ararat and settled in Northern Mesopotamia, the Cradle of Human Civilization, on this Earth, some 10k years ago. Can YOU? IF so, then you will be the First Evol who can. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

 

[juvenissun]

In other words, all life, both plant and animal, just popped into existence over a period of some 4 billion years at just the right time and place rather than evolution occurring. Is that what you are suggesting?

You asked the OP, but you really don't see the hard part of the idea. The hard question hidden behind your OP is not when did one life form appear and was recorded in the strata, but is WHY do they keep becoming extinct and became fossils.

This is not a geological question, but is a theological question. I am not sure you can see it.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

In an attempt to prove (to a certain person) that evolution is full of suppositions and unproven assumptions I sought out and read an article about the evolution of dinosaurs (written by a person with all sorts of initials after his name). While there were no specific instances of what I was seeking the whole article was gobbldygook. By the end of the article my head was spinning. It was disturbing to think that this was scientific evidence.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Dear Rick, Then you must believe that Science is telling the Truth and God is just lying. Right? Some people stick their heads in the sand and believe that only they are correct. When tested, these same individuals cannot support their Ostrich Religion with anything but their own personal opinion.

Can you show us HOW both Science and Scripture can be correct since they are "completely unrelated"? Of course not. What it leaves us with is the FACT that you must believe that there is ONE Truth for Scripture and ONE Truth for Science. Total confusion is indicated. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

Personally, I view the bible as the words of men, not of any deity. Thus, if any deities do exist, I don't view human authored religious texts as really reflecting them accurately. To me, people make up stories and shout to the heavens (meaning the sky, not actually religious heavens), while gods remain silent.